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11-26-2013, 02:38 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Grossmann can't skate or handle the puck any better than Schenn, and is much more injury prone. Dumping Schenn when his value is at its lowest would be poor use of an asset.



Get caught making an exaggerated claim that is wholly unsupported by the evidence. Post a dumb video in response.
I wasn't really wrong. I thought it was more but 5 games is still significant, especially for a 5th overall pick.

By all means though, keep on believing in a player with next to no skill or smarts. You're one of the many who are in denial about this guy.

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11-26-2013, 02:39 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Grass is greener here. I don't get the infatuation for Ollie. Mark Alt and Ghost aren't solutions either. I don't understand what Schenn did to make everyone hate him.
It's more like what Holmgren did......trading JVR who had more upside at least from a skilled perspective. Schenn is limited from a skill standpoint as a D man and when he plays like he is unsure of himself it makes for some ugly hockey on his part...

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11-26-2013, 02:40 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
I wasn't really wrong. I thought it was more but 5 games is still significant, especially for a 5th overall pick.

By all means though, keep on believing in a player with next to no skill or smarts. You're one of the many who are in denial about this guy.
Why does his draft position matter? The Flyers didn't pick him there and he's not being expected to be a guy you'd hope to get with a 5th here.

Of course if you're comparing what he brings to what JVR has been doing with the Leafs, you're bound to be disappointed, even though I don't really understand that either.

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11-26-2013, 02:41 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
It's more like what Holmgren did......trading JVR who had more upside at least from a skilled perspective. Schenn is limited from a skill standpoint as a D man and when he plays like he is unsure of himself it makes for some ugly hockey on his part...
and that's the problem. The guy isn't smart enough to overcome his lack of skill.

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11-26-2013, 02:47 PM
  #305
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Confession, Luke Schenn is not good and i really do think be a fringe nhler at this point. We need to find a way to dump his contract.
This. He's looking like a #5 D-man at best. Starting to regret the trade.

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11-26-2013, 02:51 PM
  #306
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I just threw up a little in my mouth. Seriously, Laurisden and Ghost are your solution?

Schenn is 24 y/o. He isn't a fringe NHLer. Laurisden is the definition of a fringe NHLer.
he asked what the defense would look like. not once did I say to dump schenn because we had a solution. two years from now? maybe. next year? no way.

maybe I'm in the minority, but I still think lauridsen could pan out into something useful down the road. guy was drafted raw as raw could be and showed glimpses of ability in his abbreviated (emergency) call up.

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11-26-2013, 02:53 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Grossmann can't skate or handle the puck any better than Schenn, and is much more injury prone.
True but Grossmann knows his limitations and doesn't try to carry the puck or make low percentage passes which leads to turnovers. I also don't like Grossmann in the top 4 either. He would be the perfect 5th defensemen. Streit and Grossmann should be the bottom pair since they are both specialists at this point and would be better to have their minutes controlled.

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11-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by TheShaneTrain View Post
he asked what the defense would look like. not once did I say to dump schenn because we had a solution. two years from now? maybe. next year? no way.

maybe I'm in the minority, but I still think lauridsen could pan out into something useful down the road. guy was drafted raw as raw could be and showed glimpses of ability in his abbreviated (emergency) call up.
Sorry, i just see Laurisden thrown in to quite a few future d pairings but I don't get why.

Yes, he will be a usefull call up if 3-4 dmen are injured and Alt is injured with the Phantoms. This is until Ghost, Morin, and Hagg come along at which time he will be passed by them as well.

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11-26-2013, 03:13 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
and that's the problem. The guy isn't smart enough to overcome his lack of skill.
I think it is more lack of experience then lack of intelligence.

He is making the same mistakes that Gus makes with being indecisive at times but Gus gets a pass because people want to see the little guy make the line up and become the next Kimmo.

Do you remember what Girardi looked like 6 years ago? I don't see any reason why Schenn can't develop into the same type of player. Similar skill set and toughness.

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11-26-2013, 03:14 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I think it is more lack of experience then lack of intelligence.

He is making the same mistakes that Gus makes with being indecisive at times but Gus gets a pass because people want to see the little guy make the line up and become the next Kimmo.

Do you remember what Girardi looked like 6 years ago? I don't see any reason why Schenn can't develop into the same type of player. Similar skill set and toughness.
Yeah but there is the argument that he's had 5 years in the league already. If he is not experienced in 5 years (even though he's young) when will he get it?

Just playing devil's advocate. I think he will get better.

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11-26-2013, 03:17 PM
  #311
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The Flyers will have to beef up their D in the off-season with a young top 4 defensemen. They cannot go into next year with Streit, Gross, Coburn, Schenn and Gus (assuming Kimmo will retire). To get that D man we'll need to give up a Laughton or B. Schenn but that's the cost of doing business. We need to bridge the gap until two of Morin, Hagg, Ghost are ready for the show. Thoughts?

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11-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Yeah but there is the argument that he's had 5 years in the league already. If he is not experienced in 5 years (even though he's young) when will he get it?

Just playing devil's advocate. I think he will get better.
I understand but by that line of thinking do we expect Coots to be a 20 goal scorer next season because he is a #8 pick in his 4th season rather then looking at him as a 21 or 22 y/o?

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11-26-2013, 03:23 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
This. He's looking like a #5 D-man at best. Starting to regret the trade.

This is not to you directly. Just quoted so people get the idea where I am coming from.

I find it disturbing when we as fans give up on people so quickly. That's right people, we are all human. Schenn has the potential to be great in my opinion. I believe the guy has no confidence in himself at all during this time. We just dump on these guys when they have issues. Be it playing hurt, which we may never know. Lack of confidence. Heck maybe family issues that make it hard to concentrate for whatever reason. The guy is a stud and the Leafs gave up on him and he regressed. I do not want us to be like Leaf fans. We are better than that.

We need to give him time to get out of this. He will and everything will be fine Okie Dorey. Then we can move on to someone else.

We also have no right to call any of these people/players as dumb.

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11-26-2013, 03:30 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by kjbhockey View Post
The Flyers will have to beef up their D in the off-season with a young top 4 defensemen. They cannot go into next year with Streit, Gross, Coburn, Schenn and Gus (assuming Kimmo will retire). To get that D man we'll need to give up a Laughton or B. Schenn but that's the cost of doing business. We need to bridge the gap until two of Morin, Hagg, Ghost are ready for the show. Thoughts?
What dman can they get that is any better then what they already have for Laughton?

Schenn can probably get you a one dimensional dman (offensive obviously is their need) but isn't that the JVR -Shenn trade again?

All in for The Dion?

Seriously, I think you probably get the best available UFA and build a strong system to support the d short comings.

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11-26-2013, 03:34 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
What dman can they get that is any better then what they already have for Laughton?

Schenn can probably get you a one dimensional dman (offensive obviously is their need) but isn't that the JVR -Shenn trade again?

All in for The Dion?

Seriously, I think you probably get the best available UFA and build a strong system to support the d short comings.
So we make another mistake and bring in overpriced D-man like Streit? I'm not sure if you've seen the UFA class. Nothing special at all.

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11-26-2013, 03:41 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
I wasn't really wrong.
Yeah, you were.

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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
True but Grossmann knows his limitations and doesn't try to carry the puck or make low percentage passes which leads to turnovers.
Not now, because he got better as he got more experience.

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11-26-2013, 04:20 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I understand but by that line of thinking do we expect Coots to be a 20 goal scorer next season because he is a #8 pick in his 4th season rather then looking at him as a 21 or 22 y/o?
Pretty good point.

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11-26-2013, 04:38 PM
  #318
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I think Grossman's speed gets too much criticism. He is mobile for someone his size not fast but he can move. And he is much faster than Schenn.

Look Schenn is great at being physical and punishing people. I love that about his game, but his immobility and his lack of puck handling really hurts his team by consistently getting pinned in their own zone.

I think luke schenn is a lateral move when compared to Manning, Huskins, and maybe even lauridsen. At this point his contract is going to be a disaster going forward. No 3rd pairing 14 min toi defender should be making as much as he is. If you can find a taker i think you have to roll with it.

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11-26-2013, 04:51 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by 3Fs View Post
This is not to you directly. Just quoted so people get the idea where I am coming from.

I find it disturbing when we as fans give up on people so quickly. That's right people, we are all human. Schenn has the potential to be great in my opinion. I believe the guy has no confidence in himself at all during this time. We just dump on these guys when they have issues. Be it playing hurt, which we may never know. Lack of confidence. Heck maybe family issues that make it hard to concentrate for whatever reason. The guy is a stud and the Leafs gave up on him and he regressed. I do not want us to be like Leaf fans. We are better than that.

We need to give him time to get out of this. He will and everything will be fine Okie Dorey. Then we can move on to someone else.

We also have no right to call any of these people/players as dumb.
Appreciate you not being directly calling me out. I just don't see any signs of L Schenn breaking out this year.

Yes, he had a good season last year, but it looks like he's regressed this year. He can't skate, can't make a good outlet pass, and has little-to-no offensive ability. When the puck is on his stick (in our zone) I cringe because he is very poor with the puck (and taking care of it).

I hope he proves me wrong, but when I watch younger players on this team, I want to see progression, not regression.

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11-26-2013, 04:59 PM
  #320
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So we make another mistake and bring in overpriced D-man like Streit? I'm not sure if you've seen the UFA class. Nothing special at all.
Bouwmeester would have been perfect if he hadn't resigned with St. Louis.

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11-26-2013, 05:48 PM
  #321
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Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. Carle is a good PMD and we should have kept him??? L Schenn is worse than Coburn??? Jesus, I was practically run off the boards for saying these very same things just a year or 2 ago. My how things have changed.

Okay, a voice of reason here, I'll tell you how I see things. Take it for what you will but I end up being right more than I'm wrong (and yes, I come to eat my crow when I blow it)

Our defensive prospects are years away from"saving" us. Pencilling any of them in before the 2016/17 season is unrealistic. They ALL have major holes in their game that they need to work on before they get a permanent role on our blue line. The Flyers just don't typically use very young rookies on their blue line. Just look at how long it took Gustavsson to gain a permanent starting spot (this year). Gus has been ready for at least bottom pairing PMD role for the last 2 years and he's just now been given it. Morin like won't see a roster spot before the 2016/17 season. Thus, we need to have a plan in place WITHOUT these young guys for the next 3 seasons.

L Schenn is still very young as an NHL dman. He'll get better. Yes he has his issues but like Grossman, he'll learn to play within his limitations. He'll never be a top pairing guy but he SHOULD certainly be a decent 2nd pairing guy. Once our prospects are ready to crack the lineup, Schenn should be much like Grossman is now.

Grossman is getting old. The truth is that we actually NEED Schenn for the future. We won't get much for him in a trade and 3 years from now he'll be a vital cog on our blue line (I still can't believe I'm defending the guy after I was the one ripping him apart last year).

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11-26-2013, 06:24 PM
  #322
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If fringe NHLers have the type of season Schenn did last year, we need to get a lot more fringe NHLers.

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11-26-2013, 06:38 PM
  #323
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I think Grossman's speed gets too much criticism. He is mobile for someone his size not fast but he can move. And he is much faster than Schenn.

Look Schenn is great at being physical and punishing people. I love that about his game, but his immobility and his lack of puck handling really hurts his team by consistently getting pinned in their own zone.

I think luke schenn is a lateral move when compared to Manning, Huskins, and maybe even lauridsen. At this point his contract is going to be a disaster going forward. No 3rd pairing 14 min toi defender should be making as much as he is. If you can find a taker i think you have to roll with it.
That's hilarious. You seriously just said Grossmann is much faster then Schenn.
Almost as funny as Schenn is a lateral move from Manning and Oliver.

You have serious issues.

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11-26-2013, 07:34 PM
  #324
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That's hilarious. You seriously just said Grossmann is much faster then Schenn.
Almost as funny as Schenn is a lateral move from Manning and Oliver.

You have serious issues.
This

Get over the JVR trade already and evaluate the kid with an un-biased eye.

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If fringe NHLers have the type of season Schenn did last year, we need to get a lot more fringe NHLers.


Yup, how quickly people forget. It's all about what have you done for me the past 5 games with some people.

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Old
11-26-2013, 09:58 PM
  #325
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i hope the Leafs lock up Phaneuf before July 1. because I would be frightened at what kind of coin Holmgren will throw at him.
DO
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