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Old
07-21-2005, 11:56 AM
  #26
JFPIV
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You may view this as a cop out, but after the last year of kvetching, I'm pretty tired of all of them. I'd like to see a lot more skating and a lot less talking in the next 365.

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
A few quick notes:

*Why would anyone who knows hockey respect Cherry? A Jack Adams Award, a terrific winning percentage as a coach, beloved by his players? Does that mean anything to you? He isn't as entertaining as he used to be, but he can still pick apart a game and analyse it when given the chance, and he's sort of the bastian for gritty, hard working players.
*Paul Henderson. I've never heard Henderson claim to be a Hall-of-Famer. I've had the pleasure of meeting Henderson, and I've found him to be a classy, honest, well-spoken individual, and a great story-teller. (He even makes light of his game-winning goal in Game 8). He's a little stubborn (but many people are), and the Clarke remarks were rather unfortunate, but everyone has said something stupid at least once in their lifetime (Ogopogo is right when he said that Linden's remark in the 1994-95 lockout was unfortunate) but in the case of Linden, Henderson and many others, I don't think that one stupid remark should cancel out
*Phil Esposito. Summit on Ice was a political series, especially for the Soviets. The founder of Soviet hockey was an ardent Communist, and his beliefs were reflected in how the team played and how they conducted themselves off the ice. It was a hallmark in their hockey for years. In this day and age of sports, people like Esposito are a breath of fresh air: they say it exactly as they see it, they say it articulately and with authority, even if they know a lot of people aren't going to like it. (And it's not like we've seen Espo proclaiming the virtues of Hitler or anything like that).

There are obvious choices for this: Bettman, Goodenow, Milbury, Ballard, etc. I think the name Gil Stein has to be right up there. Stein was 1,000 times worse than Bettman is. (I think I'm the only person who hasn't erased the Stein suspension from my memory). Stein's largely responsible for the albatrosses hanging around the NHL's neck that are Anaheim and Florida.

I'd put Claude Lemieux on this list. I still rate Lemieux/Draper incident as the worst I've ever seen. "Claude the Fraud" is a notorious cheap shot artist and faker of injuries. (Diving I can handle. Ray Bourque was a master at it. Claude dived, a lot, but he faked a lot of injuries). Herb Brooks called Claude "a cancer" back in 1993.

Graham James and Billy Tibbets have to be on this list - for obvious reasons.
I completely agree with your distaste for Gil Stein. That guy may have been suited for a lot of things, running the NHL was DEFINITELY NOT one of them.

When I saw him on the Roy Firestone show, reading his poetry, I KNEW the NHL was in trouble on his watch.

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
When a man can score like Yzerman used to, you can ask him to become a defensive forward. 10 years later, he's gone from 0 Cups to 3. Yzerman was only behind Gretzky and Lemieux in the latter part of the eighties, early nineties. And he did very nicely becoming a defensive forward. Now,Gretzky did win four Cups in Edmonton, so for that his scoring was obviously the most important thing. But what about when he left Edmonton? Somewhat of a defensive liability, wasn't he? IMHO, defense is a team responsibilty. I'm not saying everyone should be like the Devils...oh, wait, thats worked pretty well for them now, hasn't it?
You do realize Gretzky was a very effective penalty killer during his prime right?

You obviously never watched him play or you'd know that. Ogo is right though, Gretzky's job isn't to play defense. Furthermore, Gretzky's job isn't to get physical and fight. The fact that other players on the Oilers fought instead of him, should not be used to slight Wayne.

One more thing, where are New Jersey's four cups?

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Wirt$z

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:47 PM
  #30
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Mike Ribeiro

Just don't like him, he's cocky, immature and seems to have an ego problem.


Joe Thornton

Never liked him either, not much better than Ribeiro (character-wise). I'll never get how he became Boston's captain...


Matt Johnson

For his attack on Brad Stuart some time ago... man that was dirty


honorable mentions

Martin Lapointe, Keith Tkachuk, Vincent Lecavalier, Dominik Hasek

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:49 PM
  #31
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[QUOTE=God Bless Canada

I'd put Claude Lemieux on this list. I still rate Lemieux/Draper incident as the worst I've ever seen. "Claude the Fraud" is a notorious cheap shot artist and faker of injuries. (Diving I can handle. Ray Bourque was a master at it. Claude dived, a lot, but he faked a lot of injuries). Herb Brooks called Claude "a cancer" back in 1993.
[/QUOTE]

I'm certainly not a Claude fan at all, but I thikn the Lemieux-Draper incident was overblown in a big way. Claude didn't line him up and drill him from behind, Draper turned late and left himself in a vulnerable spot. Far too often players rely on the refs to protect them, instead of being smart and not putting yourself ina bad bad spot.

The Hunter-Turgeon incident was much much worse IMO.

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Old
07-21-2005, 12:50 PM
  #32
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al mr. flyers morganti

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machoking2003-04
al mr. flyers morganti
I think Bill 'Mr. Flyers' Clement may be a bit worse.

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:14 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machoking2003-04
al mr. flyers morganti
Although he now lives and has been based in Philly for a long time, he's still a Boston guy at heart.

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EventHorizon
I think Bill 'Mr. Flyers' Clement may be a bit worse.

Not sure what happened with Clement, but he's now much more pro-Flyers than before. For a long time he was pissed at the organization for trading him to the Caps right after the Cup wins.

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:19 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Not sure what happened with Clement, but he's now much more pro-Flyers than before. For a long time he was pissed at the organization for trading him to the Caps right after the Cup wins.
My theory is the brain cells that held those memories were destroyed by OFF! vapors.

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:54 PM
  #37
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Jyrki Lumme

Aki had to cover for that old man's mistakes for 2 years.

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Old
07-21-2005, 01:54 PM
  #38
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A little more on Gil Stein. It's one thing to be a puppet president/commissioner (he got the job because he was buddy-buddy with Bruce McNall) and a transition leader (He was the guy between the Ziegler and Bettman eras). It's another thing when you're a puppet/transition commissioner and you're an idiot. But it's still another thing when you're all that, and you still try to leave an stamp on the game characterized by incompetence.

The Stein suspension is the worst rule in the history of the game. Players were suspended for non-game-day practices instead of games. For example, Doug Gilmour delivered a vicious two-handed slash that broke Thomas Sandstrom's arm in 1992. Normally, that would be around a five-game suspension. (Whether or not Sandstrom had it coming to him is irrelevent, fact is it was a terrible slash). Instead, Gilmour got suspended for six non-game-day practices. When Bettman came in late in the 1992-93 season, he immediately repealed the Stein suspension and returned the league to the old way. That's one of the reasons Bettman came down so hard on Hunter: Bettman wanted to send a message that it wasn't a country club on player discipline anymore, and the Hunter incident (repeat offender injures a star after a goal on nation-wide TV in the playoffs) was the perfect opportunity.

Let's not forget about how Stein manipulated himself into the Hall of Fame after four months on the job. (Thankfully, the HHOF later reversed their decision).

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Old
07-21-2005, 02:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
You do realize Gretzky was a very effective penalty killer during his prime right?

You obviously never watched him play or you'd know that. Ogo is right though, Gretzky's job isn't to play defense. Furthermore, Gretzky's job isn't to get physical and fight. The fact that other players on the Oilers fought instead of him, should not be used to slight Wayne.

One more thing, where are New Jersey's four cups?
Ummm, I said Gretzky won 4 Cups. I said New Jersey was sucessful. The Oilers were an overall powerhouse team, and in their heyday, 5-3, 6-2 scores were common. Of course Gretzky's job wasn't to fight(I never said it was) , but noone ever touched the guy, anyone who did was beat down. Star players are always protected to an extent, but Gretzky was protected like none other. I still don't see Gretzky as much of a overall defensive/forward type player, although I will acknowledge that I did miss the first few years of his career due to being quite young at the time.

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Old
07-21-2005, 02:26 PM
  #40
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Bobbly Clarke & Greg Millen

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Old
07-21-2005, 02:28 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
Ummm, I said Gretzky won 4 Cups. I said New Jersey was sucessful. The Oilers were an overall powerhouse team, and in their heyday, 5-3, 6-2 scores were common. Of course Gretzky's job wasn't to fight(I never said it was) , but noone ever touched the guy, anyone who did was beat down. Star players are always protected to an extent, but Gretzky was protected like none other. I still don't see Gretzky as much of a overall defensive/forward type player, although I will acknowledge that I did miss the first few years of his career due to being quite young at the time.
Gretzky being protected more than any other player is a myth perpetuated by Gretzky haters. He was hit hard on several occasions and he just happened to have phenomenal peripheral vision. That allowed him to be an offensive force and to avoid hits. Deking around a guy is a phenomenal skill that is not unlike avoiding a hit. Gretzky was great at both.

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07-21-2005, 02:48 PM
  #42
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Naming players from other teams (especially the Leafs) would be too easy, so sticking to my Habs:

Mario Tremblay. In the words of Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons "Worse coach EVER!" - (read the Roy incident)

Chris Chelios - never liked his attitude and arrogance, even when he was a Hab.

Claude Lemieux - too many theatrics. One that comes to mind (partially) was when he was flopping around on the ice in a corner, covering his head. It may have been Chris Nilan (as a Bruin) hovering over him looking dumbfounded at what was happening.

and...

Glenn Healey has no place analysing hockey.
Harry Neale - your time is up.

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Old
07-21-2005, 03:26 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
Ummm, I said Gretzky won 4 Cups. I said New Jersey was sucessful. The Oilers were an overall powerhouse team, and in their heyday, 5-3, 6-2 scores were common. Of course Gretzky's job wasn't to fight(I never said it was) , but noone ever touched the guy, anyone who did was beat down. Star players are always protected to an extent, but Gretzky was protected like none other. I still don't see Gretzky as much of a overall defensive/forward type player, although I will acknowledge that I did miss the first few years of his career due to being quite young at the time.
Why do you insist on holding smart coaching against Wayne? He's the best offensive player the league has ever seen, why wouldn't you, as his coach, make sure people didn't take liberties with him?

We've all seen what happens to Sidny Crosby out there, it would've been the same thing on Wayne.

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Old
07-21-2005, 03:50 PM
  #44
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Mark Messier- He won't go away
Mike Keenan- Brings in the same players everywhere he goes and ruins teams.

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Old
07-21-2005, 04:06 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg16
Mark Messier- He won't go away
like freddy krueger - he'll always find you, no matter what you do or where you go!

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Old
07-21-2005, 04:22 PM
  #46
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Graham James-No need to explain, this jackoff should rot in hell, But only after guys like sheldon Kennedy get to send him there by beating him to death.

Alan Eagleson-Another lowdown criminal.

David Frost-The more I heard about this guy during the Mike Danton thing the wierder he seemed everyone that is closely associated with him seems to do whatever he tells them and it is just falt out wierd. How this guy is still an agent or associated with hockey is beyond belief.

Bettman-I dont care what anyone says, this guy has done more harm to hockey than he has good by far and he is getting undeserved props because the owners decided to fix this thing on his watch. He got flat out lucky there that is all there is to it and he should buy a lot of lottery tickets the way his luck is running he is a ***** plain and simple.

Bob Goodenow-He also has to take blame for the Players and fans missing a year and his head should roll as well.

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Old
07-21-2005, 04:30 PM
  #47
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I am stunned to get through 3 pages on this thread and not one mention of the most disgusting specimen of human life from the world of hockey:

Mr. Alan Eagleson

He screwed countless players (including Hall-of-Famers) out of their pensions and embezzelled who knows how much money from other players. He organized the Summit Series as a benefit for the NHLPA Pensions (as a result eliminating WHA players like Bobby Hull from the series) but the pension fund collected pennies while all the other profits "disappeared." Bob Goodenow is inline for the papcy compared to that clown.

Clarence Campbell

Almost single-handedly responsible for the Richard Riots. First he hands down a ludicrously heavy suspension on the Rocket, then insists on going to the game at the Forum and arriving late so that everyone sees him go to his seat.

Jack Adams

As GM of the Red Wings he was known for trading players purely out of spite in petty personality conflicts. The most famous incident of course being the trading away of Ted Lindsay to Chicago after Lindsay was instrumental in forming the NHLPA.

Peter Pocklington

Even leaving aside from trading Gretzky the way he did, the man tried to put his father's name on the Stanley Cup. Not to mention the strikes and lockouts at other business' in Edmonton.

I would also like to apply for membership in the I Hate Gil Stein club for reasons listed above by other posters.

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Old
07-21-2005, 04:39 PM
  #48
c-carp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
I am stunned to get through 3 pages on this thread and not one mention of the most disgusting specimen of human life from the world of hockey:

Mr. Alan Eagleson

He screwed countless players (including Hall-of-Famers) out of their pensions and embezzelled who knows how much money from other players. He organized the Summit Series as a benefit for the NHLPA Pensions (as a result eliminating WHA players like Bobby Hull from the series) but the pension fund collected pennies while all the other profits "disappeared." Bob Goodenow is inline for the papcy compared to that clown.

Clarence Campbell

Almost single-handedly responsible for the Richard Riots. First he hands down a ludicrously heavy suspension on the Rocket, then insists on going to the game at the Forum and arriving late so that everyone sees him go to his seat.

Jack Adams

As GM of the Red Wings he was known for trading players purely out of spite in petty personality conflicts. The most famous incident of course being the trading away of Ted Lindsay to Chicago after Lindsay was instrumental in forming the NHLPA.

Peter Pocklington

Even leaving aside from trading Gretzky the way he did, the man tried to put his father's name on the Stanley Cup. Not to mention the strikes and lockouts at other business' in Edmonton.

I would also like to apply for membership in the I Hate Gil Stein club for reasons listed above by other posters.
I was suprised about Eagleson as well, I mentioned him as well.

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Old
07-21-2005, 05:30 PM
  #49
Malefic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
I was suprised about Eagleson as well, I mentioned him as well.
Your post wasn't there when I stepped up to the soapbox.

I think it's the suits who have done more damage to the game than any player ever has or could (despite the best efforts of Mssrs. McSorley and Bertuzzi) I can dislike the way a certain player may play the game, but I can't begrudge him doing what it takes to play in the NHL.

The rampant cronyism, nepotism and occasional outright criminality in the boardrooms far exceeds the worst I've ever seen on the ice. Not only in the NHL but right down through junior and into minor hockey as well. We probably lose more young players to disillusionment than injury.

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Old
07-21-2005, 05:37 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
Your post wasn't there when I stepped up to the soapbox.

I think it's the suits who have done more damage to the game than any player ever has or could (despite the best efforts of Mssrs. McSorley and Bertuzzi) I can dislike the way a certain player may play the game, but I can't begrudge him doing what it takes to play in the NHL.

The rampant cronyism, nepotism and occasional outright criminality in the boardrooms far exceeds the worst I've ever seen on the ice. Not only in the NHL but right down through junior and into minor hockey as well. We probably lose more young players to disillusionment than injury.
Great points Bro.

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