HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Hockey people you don't like...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2005, 06:52 AM
  #76
Petey21
Registered User
 
Petey21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,372
vCash: 500
Alan Eagleson - Just a criminal, no comments needed really.

Gary Bettman - Has this guy done ANYTHING good for the sport since he took over? Why can't he just go back to basketball or whatever?

Don Cherry - As a Swede I feel insulted almost everytime he opens his beek. I know he's popular in Canada but I'm not Canadian... (but I admit I like the Rock'em Sock'em videos)

Then various players (cheapshot artists) but I'm sure there are other threads about the players.

Petey21 is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:10 AM
  #77
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Gretzky played with Jari Kurri who was a great playmaker and 2 way player who created space for Wayne and so did the left winger who was mostly one of the goons. Gretzky was like in an all star game every night. Kurri and Gretzky fed off of each other very well and both owe each other their success. Dont make it sound like Gretzky did everything by himself.

Sadly and bizarrely, you probably feel that I have tried to imply that... I'm refuting the fact that you can't have it both ways, but not particularly suprised that the point went woooosh..

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:13 AM
  #78
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
btw werent you gonna give me a definition of "libel" - well here's one:how about implying Guy Lafleur had a drinking problem or was drunk when he had his accident. Care to back that one up, bucky? From news accounts of the day he fell asleep at the wheel at 4 in the morning on hwy 40; he wasnt swerving; wasnt charged with drinking; not a lot of kids playing on the road and at that time of day (maybe you?). also he didnt hit a pole. You owe an apology.
Guy Lafleur was drunk at the wheel when he hit the pole (holding up a sign) which almost took off his head - and took off part of his ear instead. It was a well known fact that Guy while a great player had a drinking problem, and he had a problem with smoking at the same time, and at the same time he had a problem with speeding. Anyone who knows hockey will tell you that while he was a great player he was far from a model citizen off the ice.

This is from the Legends of Hockey Website

Quote:
Then came a turning point in Lafleur's life. After a night of partying with teammates in 1981, he was involved in a serious car accident and later admitted it changed his life. "I decided to slow down after that," said Lafleur. "I realized that my family was more important to me than downtown night life. The crowd doesn't give a crap as long as you bring the money in. When trouble comes, it's your family that supports you."

I have a hard time believing that what we know about Guy's drinking habits that he wouldn't be drinking at such a party. While he wasn't charged with opperation of a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol I have no doubt that he was in fact drunk when he fell asleap and plowed the Caddy into a rail.


Kovvy10 name one great player that didn't have help, it is a team game and no great player surpasses the team and that includes Guy.

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:23 AM
  #79
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch



From news accounts of the day he fell asleep at the wheel at 4 in the morning on hwy 40; he wasnt swerving; wasnt charged with drinking; not a lot of kids playing on the road and at that time of day (maybe you?). also he didnt hit a pole. You owe an apology.
wheres your fizzle shizzle viagara (sic) avatar? cat got your tongue, bucky?

Okay, I'm man enough to know when I should step up and offer an apology. I use the What Would Bobby Do mantra to try and interact with others on a fair and courteous level, so here goes..

Chooch, I am truly sorry that you post your boring, obnoxious, repetitive, juvenile and offensive drivel here.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:28 AM
  #80
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Dude you are an allright poster don't stoop to his attention grubbing level, it just isn't worth it.

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:55 AM
  #81
octopi
Registered User
 
octopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31,549
vCash: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey21
Alan Eagleson - Just a criminal, no comments needed really.

Gary Bettman - Has this guy done ANYTHING good for the sport since he took over? Why can't he just go back to basketball or whatever?

Don Cherry - As a Swede I feel insulted almost everytime he opens his beek. I know he's popular in Canada but I'm not Canadian... (but I admit I like the Rock'em Sock'em videos)
Bettman: I can stand the guy, but it'd be hard for me to argue that the league is better off financially with a cap. The year lost to get this and all the public squabbling from everybody? GRRRR


Don Cherry: Can be interesting to listen too but his insistance on bashing Europeans doesn't just offend people from Europe. As a Red Wings fan, I can thank a lot of their last 3 Cups on teams that were 1/3 to 1/2 Russian, Czech and Swede. And don't get me started on how there are 'soft' players from N.America, too...


And I should put up Claude Lemieux, didn't origionally, because the thread was titled "hockey people you don't like", which doesn't quite describe how I feel about the Turtle. Hate, loathe, despise, spit when I say his name and make warding signs, wash my hands after typing this...yeah, thats a lot closer.

octopi is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 10:18 AM
  #82
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,349
vCash: 500
Ray Bourque
Harold Ballard
Ronald Corey
Eric Desjardins
Tom Barrasso
Ed Belfour
Bobby Clarke
Jeremy Jacobs
Bill Wirtz
Gary Bettman
John Zeiglar
Bob Goodenow
Alan Eagleson
Denis Potvin
Billy Smith
Mark Crawford
Todd Bertuzzi
Joe Thornton
Brian Savage
Brian Marchement
Ulf Samuelsson
Steve Kaspar
John Muckler
Carl and Bonnie Lindros
Ron Hextall

Amongst others...

Psycho Papa Joe is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 10:39 AM
  #83
KOVALEV10*
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Simply the best!
Posts: 3,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
Guy Lafleur was drunk at the wheel when he hit the pole (holding up a sign) which almost took off his head - and took off part of his ear instead. It was a well known fact that Guy while a great player had a drinking problem, and he had a problem with smoking at the same time, and at the same time he had a problem with speeding. Anyone who knows hockey will tell you that while he was a great player he was far from a model citizen off the ice.

This is from the Legends of Hockey Website




I have a hard time believing that what we know about Guy's drinking habits that he wouldn't be drinking at such a party. While he wasn't charged with opperation of a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol I have no doubt that he was in fact drunk when he fell asleap and plowed the Caddy into a rail.


Kovvy10 name one great player that didn't have help, it is a team game and no great player surpasses the team and that includes Guy.

Oh so I get your point. Guy is not aloud to celebrate or have fun like a normal person. He's not allowed to go to parties because he's a professional hockey player and by doing so he's not a good model citizen. If he does go to parties then he's not aloud to drink. Like you've never ever drank in your life. His drinking problem is exegerrated. No doubt he had a drinking problem but people make it sound like he was some freak who drank 10 beers and smoked 5 packs a day.

KOVALEV10* is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 11:25 AM
  #84
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Oh so I get your point. Guy is not aloud to celebrate or have fun like a normal person. He's not allowed to go to parties because he's a professional hockey player and by doing so he's not a good model citizen. If he does go to parties then he's not aloud to drink. Like you've never ever drank in your life. His drinking problem is exegerrated. No doubt he had a drinking problem but people make it sound like he was some freak who drank 10 beers and smoked 5 packs a day.

Where in the name of sweet mercy did you read that in Benton's post?? Are you off your meds or something? There's a difference between going to parties and being responsible and smashing up cars. He was just responding to your esteemed colleague who was upset at the possibility of beesmirching Guy's name.. Guy's a normal guy, big deal. He's not a god of some higher moral standard, that's no big deal either..

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 11:38 AM
  #85
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Ray Bourque
Harold Ballard
Ronald Corey
Eric Desjardins
Tom Barrasso
Ed Belfour
Bobby Clarke
Jeremy Jacobs
Bill Wirtz
Gary Bettman
John Zeiglar
Bob Goodenow
Alan Eagleson
Denis Potvin
Billy Smith
Mark Crawford
Todd Bertuzzi
Joe Thornton
Brian Savage
Brian Marchement
Ulf Samuelsson
Steve Kaspar
John Muckler
Carl and Bonnie Lindros
Ron Hextall

Amongst others...

thats a pretty accurate list; but Ray Bourque?? I 'd be open to listening to reasons.

chooch* is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 11:50 AM
  #86
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
Guy Lafleur was drunk at the wheel when he hit the pole (holding up a sign) which almost took off his head - and took off part of his ear instead. It was a well known fact that Guy while a great player had a drinking problem, and he had a problem with smoking at the same time, and at the same time he had a problem with speeding. Anyone who knows hockey will tell you that while he was a great player he was far from a model citizen off the ice.

This is from the Legends of Hockey Website




I have a hard time believing that what we know about Guy's drinking habits that he wouldn't be drinking at such a party. While he wasn't charged with opperation of a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol I have no doubt that he was in fact drunk when he fell asleap and plowed the Caddy into a rail.


Kovvy10 name one great player that didn't have help, it is a team game and no great player surpasses the team and that includes Guy.
You dont know squat and you might want to consult with your lawyer bucky before you post such stuff.

I accept he's besmirched his name in some peoples eyes (we're talking about hockey players after all) - but you and bucky still havent mentioned the one way most people (in Que) think so.

btw You should have read the French daily's in Mtl when the Oilers came to town in the 80's. You might be shocked to hear what 99 was up to.

But i dont tread there unlike your little woofy friend.

chooch* is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 11:53 AM
  #87
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
You dont know squat and you might want to consult with your lawyer bucky before you post such stuff.

I accept he's besmirched his name in some peoples eyes - but you and bucky still havent mentioned the one way most people (in Que) think so.

btw You should have read the French daily's in Mtl when the Oilers came to town in the 80's. You might be shocked to hear what 99 was up to.


The only difference is we don't really give a rat's behind what Gretzky did in Montreal, unlike you and your minions who have their panties wound up like a sailor's knot as soon as someone rattles your chain by posting the same kind of garbage about your dreamboat as you post about their favorite players.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 11:55 AM
  #88
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
[/B]

The only difference is we don't really give a rat's behind what Gretzky did in Montreal, unlike you and your minions who have their panties wound up like a sailor's knot as soon as someone rattles your chain by posting the same kind of garbage about your dreamboat as you post about their favorite players.
Its not the same kind of garbage. You dont know teh diff between a minus over the last 12 years of a 19 year career, and bodyguards and nothing over 40 goals the last 10 years versus implying drinking problems and viagara (sic)?

chooch* is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 01:00 PM
  #89
c-carp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 9,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
lol, who cares? does it matter who makes fancier plays? It's all worth the same on the score sheet. Is Alexei Kovalev a better goal scorer than Mark Recchi just because he has nicer dekes? There's something to be said for reading a play and being in the right place at the right time.
Great point. Couldnt have said it better.

c-carp is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 01:02 PM
  #90
c-carp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 9,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
you almost seem happy that Mario was "man enough" to take a beating and miss half his career due to injury. if I had an asset like Gretzky or Lemieux on my team, I would make damn sure I protected him.
Another great point. It was stupid for the Pens, not to employ a person to look out for him.

c-carp is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 02:17 PM
  #91
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Its not the same kind of garbage. You dont know teh diff between a minus over the last 12 years of a 19 year career, and bodyguards and nothing over 40 goals the last 10 years versus implying drinking problems and viagara (sic)?
Thanks for your continued interest, but as I tried repeatedly to let you know, I'm not looking for anything more than friendship. If you want to talk about viagra and drinking, find a chat line somewhere... I'm flattered but just not interested.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 02:23 PM
  #92
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Its not the same kind of garbage. You dont know teh diff between a minus over the last 12 years of a 19 year career, and bodyguards and nothing over 40 goals the last 10 years versus implying drinking problems and viagara (sic)?

Do you have a lot of trouble differentiating between numbers like two and twelve??Do you just like to make garbage up to post? Are there reams of interesting made up statistics in your juvenile dream-world?

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 02:25 PM
  #93
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Oh so I get your point. Guy is not aloud to celebrate or have fun like a normal person. He's not allowed to go to parties because he's a professional hockey player and by doing so he's not a good model citizen. If he does go to parties then he's not aloud to drink. Like you've never ever drank in your life. His drinking problem is exegerrated. No doubt he had a drinking problem but people make it sound like he was some freak who drank 10 beers and smoked 5 packs a day.
I don't care if he drinks, I really don't have a problem with that. Hell I am having a beer right now, there however is a difference between him drinking and him drinking at a party and then crashing his car into a pole at a very high rate of speed. That I do have a problem with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
You dont know squat and you might want to consult with your lawyer bucky before you post such stuff.

I accept he's besmirched his name in some peoples eyes (we're talking about hockey players after all) - but you and bucky still havent mentioned the one way most people (in Que) think so.

btw You should have read the French daily's in Mtl when the Oilers came to town in the 80's. You might be shocked to hear what 99 was up to.

But i dont tread there unlike your little woofy friend.
Why would I have to consult a lawyer as under the basic Canadian libel laws as they are currently set forth have a number of restrictions placed upon them, and many of them come into play when dealing with this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy v. LaMarsh
- The "defamatory" remark was basically accurate....
- Citizens are entitled to make "fair comment" on matters of public interest without fear of defamation claims. A good example of this is a letter to the editor on a matter of public concern. The author of the remarks may even go so far as to presume motives on the part of the person who's actions are being criticized provided only that the imputation of motives is reasonable under the circumstances. The rule of thumb is that the fair comment must reflect an honestly held opinion based on proven fact and not motivated by malice. It should be noted, however, that some provinces have enacted laws which give their citizens varying rights to "fair comment."
No need for a lawyer on this one, actually one could even make the arguement that this isn't in a public arena but rather a private forum in a personal communication and thus the libel laws would not apply. Come on buddy I am not saying that Guy Lafleur wasn't a great player, I won't come into every thread and spew the same retoric over and over again detracting from all other conversation, I won't do anything of the sort but at the same time to not realize that Guy had some problems would be foolish, he seems to have turned his life around which is actually admirable but I don't think that makes him a great person.

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 02:28 PM
  #94
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
I don't care if he drinks, I really don't have a problem with that. Hell I am having a beer right now,.

Benton, as we speak I am organizing a prayer group to help you beat this terrible enjoyment of that awful devil's brew. A young man of your ilk should be drinking rye

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 05:54 PM
  #95
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Thats gotta be the funniest/truest statement in the history of hockey!

He was never hit hard except for Mcreary and Suter. Rememeber his "injury" on a little love tap in 87?

The guy was protected from day 1 by not only the cementheads but also the NHL; unlike Orr, etc he was the kind of guy who asked for protection (he asked for Marty Mac to be included in the LA trade).What a guy.

He was never slashed and hacked at like Mario was; remember David Shaw - when did you see anything like that against 99? Thats why Mario scored more goals on the PP - he DREW penalties unlike Mr. Defensive Liability.Wayne almost never was slashed (must be his great vision ) or tripped or hooked or boarded.

And for all the stats hounds, take 92/417 (99's best goal year /# his team scored)and you get a number thats lower than Marios best years divided by the number of goals Pittsburgh scored. What about the fact that Mario has more goals in his last 12 years than Wayne did? So what you say? Well Mario didnt play in 3 of those years! Mario had some superb years after 30 when 99 was clearly just a protected flip passer. Or did Mario get better with age and injury.

There are all sorts of stats that "prove" Mario was a better scorer - or you can close your eyes and rely on raw numbers like some of 99's fanatics.

The "chose to be a playmaker" argument is laughable! Yeah he chose to score 9 goals a year.

38 goals at the age of 33 huh? well Bobby Hull had 50 at 33; mario had 35 in 43 games after not playing for 3 years!

His job wasnt to play defense? well duh! we're not talking about defense but defensive responsibility like Yzerman, Messier, Howe, Lafleur, Mario, Rocket, Jean etc etc. These guys all came back. I never saw a guy hang out at centre like 99 did. Even when Mario was on 1 leg/hip he came back. (btw did Orr's coach ask him to play defence or offence?)

As for asking a player like Carbonneau to play offense - check his junior stats!!!; he was a terrific offensive player (almost 200 points his last year of junior! )but the Habs asked him to play defense and forgo offense. Ask and ye shall receive victory. Something 99 cared less for than endorsements.
How did I know I would find this nonsense in here...

Do you really want to start that debate AGAIN!?!?!

Must be a masochist and enjoy getting your ass handed to you on a silver plate.

JCD is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 05:55 PM
  #96
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

Plus Mario in 1991 and 1992 played a great 2 way game. That playoff year Mario played more defense then Gretzky ever did!
And how did I know Tweedy-Dee would be right behind him...

JCD is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 05:57 PM
  #97
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,966
vCash: 500
Gretzky wasn't an overall minus over his last twelve years, it was over his last eleven years. But that's a minor point.

Here are some other losers who were an overall minus over the last 11 years of their career:

- Dale Hawerchuk
- Dave Keon
- Borje Salming
- Peter Stastny
- Phil Housley
- Dino Ciccarelli
- Bernie Federko
- Bobby Smith
- Brian Bellows
- Dale Hunter
- Pat LaFontaine
- Lanny McDonald
- Kirk Muller
- Butch Goring
- Dennis Maruk
- Rick Vaive
- Trevor Linden
- Randy Carlyle
- Glen Wesley
- Wendel Clark
- Craig Janney

And a few guys who are close (within +30):

- Brian Leetch
- Brett Hull
- Doug Gilmour
- Jari Kurri
- Adam Oates
- Claude Lemieux
- Gary Suter
- Esa Tikkanen
- Rob Blake
- Mike Ricci
- Alexei Zhamnov
- Dave Andreychuk
- Bernie Nicholls

There are at least a dozen Hall of Famers on this list, along with excellent checkers/defensive players, Norris Trophy winners, Conn Smythe winners, and perrenial Hart/Art Ross contenders. I'd say Gretzky's in pretty good company.

(I'm missing data for 2004 so the numbers may be a bit off for the active players)

Hockey Outsider is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 06:04 PM
  #98
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Its not the same kind of garbage. You dont know teh diff between a minus over the last 12 years of a 19 year career, and bodyguards and nothing over 40 goals the last 10 years versus implying drinking problems and viagara (sic)?
Seems you don't seem to know the difference between your hate addled delusions and realitiy.

Not one single statement here has any facutal basis. All of them are just more of chooch's BS inventions to hate on Gretzky.

JCD is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 08:27 PM
  #99
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Gretzky wasn't an overall minus over his last twelve years, it was over his last eleven years. But that's a minor point.

Here are some other losers who were an overall minus over the last 11 years of their career:

- Dale Hawerchuk
- Dave Keon
- Borje Salming
- Peter Stastny
- Phil Housley
- Dino Ciccarelli
- Bernie Federko
- Bobby Smith
- Brian Bellows
- Dale Hunter
- Pat LaFontaine
- Lanny McDonald
- Kirk Muller
- Butch Goring
- Dennis Maruk
- Rick Vaive
- Trevor Linden
- Randy Carlyle
- Glen Wesley
- Wendel Clark
- Craig Janney

And a few guys who are close (within +30):

- Brian Leetch
- Brett Hull
- Doug Gilmour
- Jari Kurri
- Adam Oates
- Claude Lemieux
- Gary Suter
- Esa Tikkanen
- Rob Blake
- Mike Ricci
- Alexei Zhamnov
- Dave Andreychuk
- Bernie Nicholls

There are at least a dozen Hall of Famers on this list, along with excellent checkers/defensive players, Norris Trophy winners, Conn Smythe winners, and perrenial Hart/Art Ross contenders. I'd say Gretzky's in pretty good company.

(I'm missing data for 2004 so the numbers may be a bit off for the active players)
Not only that, 11 of them celebrated excessively and 6 didn't pass on 2 on o empty net situations, and 8 would've been + with better linemates. I'm not at liberty to name said players though.

mcphee is offline  
Old
07-23-2005, 10:37 PM
  #100
KOVALEV10*
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Simply the best!
Posts: 3,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Gretzky wasn't an overall minus over his last twelve years, it was over his last eleven years. But that's a minor point.

Here are some other losers who were an overall minus over the last 11 years of their career:

- Dale Hawerchuk
- Dave Keon
- Borje Salming
- Peter Stastny
- Phil Housley
- Dino Ciccarelli
- Bernie Federko
- Bobby Smith
- Brian Bellows
- Dale Hunter
- Pat LaFontaine
- Lanny McDonald
- Kirk Muller
- Butch Goring
- Dennis Maruk
- Rick Vaive
- Trevor Linden
- Randy Carlyle
- Glen Wesley
- Wendel Clark
- Craig Janney

And a few guys who are close (within +30):

- Brian Leetch
- Brett Hull
- Doug Gilmour
- Jari Kurri
- Adam Oates
- Claude Lemieux
- Gary Suter
- Esa Tikkanen
- Rob Blake
- Mike Ricci
- Alexei Zhamnov
- Dave Andreychuk
- Bernie Nicholls

There are at least a dozen Hall of Famers on this list, along with excellent checkers/defensive players, Norris Trophy winners, Conn Smythe winners, and perrenial Hart/Art Ross contenders. I'd say Gretzky's in pretty good company.

(I'm missing data for 2004 so the numbers may be a bit off for the active players)
I dont see any Beliveau or Rocket or Lafleur or Beliveau or Howe in this list now do I?

KOVALEV10* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.