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Karlsson is 1st in points by defensemen

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Old
10-30-2013, 07:37 PM
  #76
Curtinho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyIgor View Post
Good job!!
Yes, taking quotes out of context has always been a great way to debate a point.

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Old
10-30-2013, 07:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SensBruins4Ever View Post
So, i take it this thread has turned into a trade karlsson thread.
Not at all, it's a play Karlsson less and on wing thread now!

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Old
10-30-2013, 07:58 PM
  #78
Fenix Rises 2026
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Man, what is this guy capable of!? He looks so-so and he's leading d-men. When he's on his stride the talent is insane. As a winger he would be a third Sedin. Can't wait for the Olympics.

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Old
10-30-2013, 09:34 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post


Sad, sad thread.
Yes this went out of bounds.

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Old
10-30-2013, 10:50 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sens4life View Post
Um, not true. Not even close. Teh team is statistically better when he's NOT on the ice, both production and goals allowed.

(From Cujomi
Karlsson on the ice:
- He produces 2.58g per game
- He allows 3.05g per game

Karlsson not on the ice:
- The team produces 3.17g per game
- The team allows 2.58g per game
Lmfao, using common sense, you are telling me that the number 1 scoring defender and the guy who is 2nd in team points worsens our production? I want to know where these stats are from. Cujomoi show me the site please.

Loooooool, come on guys... just think stuff through first.

EDIT: I believe I've figured it out.

Karlsson's majority of ice time come during top line and 3rd line.

Statistically, those 2 lines have been our absolute worst in terms of defensive structure and worse than our 2nd and 4th lines in goal production.

Therefore it deflates Karlsson's actual worth. Notice lately how Karlsson has actually been playing with Turris and has gotten better looks?

If we compare Karlsson's ga/20 compared to the forwards he lines up with, he is actually a blessing and his numbers are better than you'd think if HE was a liability as well as the two lines he consistently plays the most with.

Context is everything.


Last edited by ReginKarlssonLehner: 10-30-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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Old
10-31-2013, 12:04 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lmfao, using common sense, you are telling me that the number 1 scoring defender and the guy who is 2nd in team points worsens our production? I want to know where these stats are from. Cujomoi show me the site please.

Loooooool, come on guys... just think stuff through first.

EDIT: I believe I've figured it out.

Karlsson's majority of ice time come during top line and 3rd line.

Statistically, those 2 lines have been our absolute worst in terms of defensive structure and worse than our 2nd and 4th lines in goal production.

Therefore it deflates Karlsson's actual worth. Notice lately how Karlsson has actually been playing with Turris and has gotten better looks?

If we compare Karlsson's ga/20 compared to the forwards he lines up with, he is actually a blessing and his numbers are better than you'd think if HE was a liability as well as the two lines he consistently plays the most with.

Context is everything.
Just...no.

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Old
10-31-2013, 12:31 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Just...no.
You should probably provide some evidence for your opinion instead of "just .... no" when replying to someone who actually made a valid point and also "showed his work" in terms of logical reasoning.

In other news

http://i.imgur.com/tm0WXMC.png

(From Yost)

Turris seems to be doing fine without Karlsson.

There's no question that this team would be 1000000x worse without Karlsson eating literally half the defensive minutes though.

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Old
10-31-2013, 01:55 AM
  #83
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What is with the Karlsson hate?

He is recovering from a devastating injury. Give him a few years to return to form.

Plus it doesn't help that the rest of his defensive teammates are...

Gryba- Having a huge sophomore slump.
Phillips- Lost his ability to play defense consistently.
Cowen- Experiencing a major learning curve-- i.e. how to play 2 on 1's and how to jump on the rush.
Wiercioch- Not a defensive stud.

Corvo- Average 5/6'er

Methot- Having an above average year.

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Old
10-31-2013, 02:23 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
What is with the Karlsson hate?

He is recovering from a devastating injury. Give him a few years to return to form.

Plus it doesn't help that the rest of his defensive teammates are...

Gryba- Having a huge sophomore slump.
Phillips- Lost his ability to play defense consistently.
Cowen- Experiencing a major learning curve-- i.e. how to play 2 on 1's and how to jump on the rush.
Wiercioch- Not a defensive stud.

Corvo- Average 5/6'er

Methot- Having an above average year.
Kinda sums up the defense perfectly i think.

Some people keep going on about how the Senators need to upgrade michalek but this team's biggest need is a minute muncher on the blueline. Big time

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Old
10-31-2013, 02:26 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
What is with the Karlsson hate?
Karlsson didn't like being called a God so people are doing the opposite?

I dont understand it. He's obviously the best player on the team when 100%.

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Old
10-31-2013, 03:56 AM
  #86
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His lack of defensive awareness and hustle on the backcheck frightens me. I rather have OEL or Kronwall play more minutes than Karlsson at the olympics. As hes playing now, I would just use him on the PP (if I have swedens olympic teams defense at my disposal).

Guy really have to step it up a notch IMO

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:02 AM
  #87
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If Karlsson plays 30mins for team Sweden, then God bless them vs any opposition.

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Old
10-31-2013, 04:06 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Answer View Post
If Karlsson plays 30mins for team Sweden, then God bless them vs any opposition.
OT, but who is this 'God' youre talking about and why would he watch hockey instead of, I dunno, saving a bunch of people in need

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Old
10-31-2013, 06:56 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by EK47 View Post
Yes this went out of bounds.
really i feel like it was pretty accurate.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:27 AM
  #90
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It was pretty obvious watching him against Chicago that he's still having skating problems. Yes, his straight ahead speed is fine, but his pivots and quick turns are awful. No fluidity at all.

It is most evident in the defensive zone where he uses body position and stickwork against opponents.

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Old
10-31-2013, 01:39 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Karlsson's majority of ice time come during top line and 3rd line.

Statistically, those 2 lines have been our absolute worst in terms of defensive structure and worse than our 2nd and 4th lines in goal production.

Therefore it deflates Karlsson's actual worth. Notice lately how Karlsson has actually been playing with Turris and has gotten better looks?
Karlsson has looked the same and since Turris' line has been playing with Karlsson their GA has gone up. Would it not be more logical a conclusion to think that the bad GA/60 for two separate lines that spend the majority of their time with Karlsson to be bad because of Karlsson rather than Karlsson's to be bad because of two separate and independent lines?

Quote:
If we compare Karlsson's ga/20 compared to the forwards he lines up with, he is actually a blessing and his numbers are better than you'd think if HE was a liability as well as the two lines he consistently plays the most with.
They're both liabilities. That's the problem. Right now Spezza's line is playing like the Leafs -- opportunistic but not controlling the play. Karlsson is a possession type defenceman that takes a lot of risks. Having them out on the ice together is a recipe for disaster because Karlsson wants to hold possession in the offensive zone and doesn't put as much effort into the defensive end.

Ideally I think what we would have for 'match-ups' is Cowen/Karlsson out with the Turris line and Methot/Gryba out with the Spezza line as they're a bit better in their own zone.

Michalek/Conacher - Spezza - Zibanejad + Methot/Gryba
MacArthur - Turris - Ryan + Cowen/Karlsson

This would just be a more efficient way of spreading out not only our offensive contributions, possession abilities and scoring, but the defensive pairings just have attributes that fit better with those respective lines.

The problem is that Karlsson and Spezza have great natural chemistry in the offensive end that can be taken advantage of during the PP, but is better left to the side at ES right now because they both try too hard on the offensive side but not hard enough on the defensive end.

Just my two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burf View Post
You should probably provide some evidence for your opinion instead of "just .... no" when replying to someone who actually made a valid point and also "showed his work" in terms of logical reasoning.
Yeah it was late and that wasn't really an appropriate response. Was just tired.

Quote:
There's no question that this team would be 1000000x worse without Karlsson eating literally half the defensive minutes though.
Agreed. Our forwards are fine despite people harping on them...but outside of Karlsson and Methot this team has next to no high-end defence right now. People thought Cowen could be a 3/4 and he can't...Wiercioch looks terrible out there right now (sophomore slump or regression from playing less sheltered minutes?) and Phillips/Corvo are...best used with limited ice time.

As was mentioned in the trade topic...bringing in Ehrhoff would go a long way to solidifying our back-end.

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Old
10-31-2013, 01:43 PM
  #92
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Don't worry, Chris Neil is the answer.

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10-31-2013, 07:06 PM
  #93
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Chris Neil is God!

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
His lack of defensive awareness and hustle on the backcheck frightens me. I rather have OEL or Kronwall play more minutes than Karlsson at the olympics. As hes playing now, I would just use him on the PP (if I have swedens olympic teams defense at my disposal).

Guy really have to step it up a notch IMO
Considering the progression he's gone through over the last 3 weeks, wouldn't be surprised if you're happy with what you get in February.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:28 PM
  #95
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some real statistical geniuses in here, wow. gf/60? LOL.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:30 PM
  #96
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What we need to get back to was the start Karlsson had last season before his injury, where his defence was on a whole other level than it has been since then. AND, keep in mind, he has been improving ever since then.

I still hope that he'll not only find his old form, but also improve upon it.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:32 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfieghetti View Post
some real statistical geniuses in here, wow. gf/60? LOL.
That stands for "goals for per 60 minutes"


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Old
10-31-2013, 07:32 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Considering the progression he's gone through over the last 3 weeks, wouldn't be surprised if you're happy with what you get in February.
Agreed, Karlsson's skating continues to improve & I don't see that digressing but I would like to see an improvement in his decision making. He still takes a few too many risks & needs to manage the puck better at least until the rest of the team can get on a roll. The team as a whole needs to play a safer game until they are all up to speed & then can start taking more chances knowing other guys will cover up for them. Right now guys are making mistakes & no one is there to bail them out or too many mistakes & you can't stop them all.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:35 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Agreed, Karlsson's skating continues to improve & I don't see that digressing but I would like to see an improvement in his decision making. He still takes a few too many risks & needs to manage the puck better at least until the rest of the team can get on a roll. The team as a whole needs to play a safer game until they are all up to speed & then can start taking more chances knowing other guys will cover up for them. Right now guys are making mistakes & no one is there to bail them out or too many mistakes & you can't stop them all.
His decision making was basically the same when he was at his best...the difference was he made high risk plays look lower risk. I'd just let the kid figure it out and at least wait for a sticking point before asking for more, or complaining.

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Old
10-31-2013, 07:51 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
What we need to get back to was the start Karlsson had last season before his injury, where his defence was on a whole other level than it has been since then. AND, keep in mind, he has been improving ever since then.

I still hope that he'll not only find his old form, but also improve upon it.
He'll get there.

We have to remember, statistically, he's not "due" to be 100% until around February. And even then, mentally he has to get back to trusting his Achilles as well.

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