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It's about time for a Kreider thread

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Old
11-17-2013, 04:15 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
If you don't mind, reread my post for the edit. I address this somewhat. It contradicts what Kreider says himself where he was constantly on the move under Torts but is now slowing up and choosing his spots more.
If you, or Kreider, or whoever insist he was going at 100% anytime during last season, I completely disagree. The overthinking excuse, while still shoddy, holds up better than trying to paint Kreider as somebody who was trying to do too much last season when, in reality, he wasnt doing anything at all.

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11-17-2013, 04:52 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you, or Kreider, or whoever insist he was going at 100% anytime during last season, I completely disagree. The overthinking excuse, while still shoddy, holds up better than trying to paint Kreider as somebody who was trying to do too much last season when, in reality, he wasnt doing anything at all.
I dont think hustle had anything to do with it. I do think he was still learning the pro game and he was thinking too much. Kreider even said he learned a lot from last year despite it being a rough year. the point is who guves a dmn he has become a good nhl player and hopefully will get even better with more experience

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11-17-2013, 11:27 PM
  #628
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That was his weakest game since this great stretch. Looks like he met his match physically. Won't be able to bully around the Bruins either. Ugh.

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Old
11-18-2013, 02:15 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Are you saying you wouldn't trade Kreider for MacKinnon or Barkov?
I have maintained there are no sacred cows.
Anybody can be traded.
However, McD is the other rock along with Kreider I would PREFER to keep and add to, not trade.
That said, everything depends upon the exact offer.

If someone wants to have discussion because its interesting hockey talk, fine. What is MacKinnon's celing? floor? is he closer to Tavares? or Stamkos? Hard to make a definitive case, and Kreider is moving the goalposts even as we speak.

So while one should listen with an open mind, see it more along the lines of who can we give up to add one of them to Kreider.

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11-18-2013, 02:26 AM
  #630
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Yeah, he's not playing center, though. Would think that negates you looking good.
Na na na na na na NO.

I thought and still think he could be a tremendous C -- clearly, needs a little experience on his vision at pro level, and needs to work on his stickhandling -- but otherwise, we see not only his speed, but his leg and body strength, he rushes through the middle, no boards to stop him, would take an extra guy to check him at center ice.

But I did not say he would be a bust if forced to play W.

Come on, admit it.
I was WAY ahead of the whole Kreider thing and I called his being an impact star ahead of almost everyone else.

In fact I got a lot of grief for it

Now I have the last

and is in order

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11-18-2013, 02:29 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Na na na na na na NO.

I thought and still think he could be a tremendous C -- clearly, needs a little experience on his vision at pro level, and needs to work on his stickhandling -- but otherwise, we see not only his speed, but his leg and body strength, he rushes through the middle, no boards to stop him, would take an extra guy to check him at center ice.

But I did not say he would be a bust if forced to play W.

Come on, admit it.
I was WAY ahead of the whole Kreider thing and I called his being an impact star ahead of almost everyone else.

In fact I got a lot of grief for it

Now I have the last

and is in order
Hate to break it to you, but there were many posters on the Kreider bandwagon before you jumped on it.

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11-18-2013, 06:41 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Na na na na na na NO.

I thought and still think he could be a tremendous C -- clearly, needs a little experience on his vision at pro level, and needs to work on his stickhandling -- but otherwise, we see not only his speed, but his leg and body strength, he rushes through the middle, no boards to stop him, would take an extra guy to check him at center ice.

But I did not say he would be a bust if forced to play W.

Come on, admit it.
I was WAY ahead of the whole Kreider thing and I called his being an impact star ahead of almost everyone else.

In fact I got a lot of grief for it

Now I have the last

and is in order
Dude, you like Kreider we get it. You post one thing on this board that's not complete nonsense and happen to get it right (a talented player is play well, wow!) and now want a pat on the back? For someone that just wanted to trade DZ, our 2nd best D-man, and our top center for a rookie winger you are awfully cocky. With your track record for posting, it's ridiculous how much gloating you do.

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11-18-2013, 06:44 AM
  #633
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Kudos to bernmeister for believing in Kreider when so many of us lost hope.

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Old
11-18-2013, 06:48 AM
  #634
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Kudos to bernmeister for believing in Kreider when so many of us lost hope.
bernmeister is a broken clock.

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11-18-2013, 06:49 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
bernmeister is a broken clock.

Even the broken clock shows the right time twice a day.

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Old
11-18-2013, 07:14 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Hate to break it to you, but there were many posters on the Kreider bandwagon before you jumped on it.
I'm not talking about the last month+.
I was cautious about CK when first drafted, cause we did not know how filling out would impact his primary asset, skating speed. We also did not know how good a shooter he would be.

Once it was apparent we lucked out on both counts, THEN I started the Kreider bandwagon, with a few others. Most posters were all hey let's wait and see. Which is reasonably prudent. But don't criticize those who showed guts, and deserve the glory.

Unfortunately, since some apparently begrudge me any level of respect when it is clearly earned and fully due, I am required to speak up for myself, and will as needed.

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11-18-2013, 07:29 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Dude, you like Kreider we get it. You post one thing on this board that's not complete nonsense and happen to get it right (a talented player is play well, wow!) and now want a pat on the back? For someone that just wanted to trade DZ, our 2nd best D-man, and our top center for a rookie winger you are awfully cocky. With your track record for posting, it's ridiculous how much gloating you do.
Dude you do not get it.

Something like bringing up Miller, will Kreider succeed, etc. are also judgment calls, but there tends to be an objective post mortem that allows everybody to see, in the aftermath, who was right.

I have a good record on some of that stuff.

Trades are more subjective. Not as clear cut.
And not all trades can be equal value, esp. if you want a premium asset, which is scarce, in return.

Overpaying something like Staal + MDZ + Brassard to Jets, a team needing LD, for EKane and Burmistrov rights + Postma is still overpayment even though specifics allow it to be more reasonable than the overpayment you send to say, SJ, for Hertl, where your primary asset traded is a C (Stepan) and not only are they likely to keep their equivalent of Kreider even with a humongous offer, but because you are not exact matching their needs, you have to pay more.

When someone suggests something outside the narrow scope of what the herd parrots, consider an open mind.

If that's too much a courtesy to extend, feel free to press ignore.

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Old
11-18-2013, 07:31 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Kudos to bernmeister for believing in Kreider when so many of us lost hope.
Thank you, man.

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Old
11-18-2013, 07:37 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
bernmeister is a broken clock.
That's why I got it right consistently from not much past square 1

I've been wrong about a number of things, right about a lot of others, call 'em like I see 'em.

Just be honest.

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Old
11-18-2013, 08:32 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I'm not talking about the last month+.
I was cautious about CK when first drafted, cause we did not know how filling out would impact his primary asset, skating speed. We also did not know how good a shooter he would be.

Once it was apparent we lucked out on both counts, THEN I started the Kreider bandwagon, with a few others. Most posters were all hey let's wait and see. Which is reasonably prudent. But don't criticize those who showed guts, and deserve the glory.

Unfortunately, since some apparently begrudge me any level of respect when it is clearly earned and fully due, I am required to speak up for myself, and will as needed.
There were a whole bunch of Rangers posters advocating the Rangers draft him in his draft year. My two guys were Zack Kassian and Kreider--Kassian was gone by the time the Rangers picked. You weren't the first and there's another whole bunch of Rangers posters counted on him figuring it out sooner or later who never lost hope. You don't always pay attention to what others are saying. Sometimes I think you're too obsessed with your mostly crazy trade ideas.

As for the first poster on HF to push Kreider in his draft year it happened to be a Bruins poster. I forget his user name but this guy was writing a lot of stuff about Kreider when he was at Phillips Andover. Back in those days Chris wasn't worrying about getting drafted--to him that was a pipe dream. He was worrying whether he was good enough to get a Hockey East scholarship.

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11-18-2013, 08:49 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Na na na na na na NO.

I thought and still think he could be a tremendous C -- clearly, needs a little experience on his vision at pro level, and needs to work on his stickhandling -- but otherwise, we see not only his speed, but his leg and body strength, he rushes through the middle, no boards to stop him, would take an extra guy to check him at center ice.

But I did not say he would be a bust if forced to play W.

Come on, admit it.
I was WAY ahead of the whole Kreider thing and I called his being an impact star ahead of almost everyone else.

In fact I got a lot of grief for it

Now I have the last

and is in order
OK. For one thing, no one except you really cares about how often you're right and wrong. I was the first person to wonder about our depth after the Nash trade. For a while I was about the only person. I don't crow with glee at the fact that a lot of other people came on board with me over the course of last season. No one cares. I was poking fun at you because Kreider at center is one of your more outlandish ideas, and that's saying something. You were NOT way ahead of the whole Kreider thing. The kid has been considered our number 1 prospect for a relatively long time now... basically since McDonagh was recalled. Somehow, you're the only one who felt he had this kind of potential? Give me a ****ing break. All that this self-congratulatory junk you're espousing is doing is making people like you even less.

Be vocal in defeat and quiet in victory. Otherwise, you're just being an ass.

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Old
11-18-2013, 08:52 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Dude you do not get it.

Something like bringing up Miller, will Kreider succeed, etc. are also judgment calls, but there tends to be an objective post mortem that allows everybody to see, in the aftermath, who was right.

I have a good record on some of that stuff.

Trades are more subjective. Not as clear cut.
And not all trades can be equal value, esp. if you want a premium asset, which is scarce, in return.

Overpaying something like Staal + MDZ + Brassard to Jets, a team needing LD, for EKane and Burmistrov rights + Postma is still overpayment even though specifics allow it to be more reasonable than the overpayment you send to say, SJ, for Hertl, where your primary asset traded is a C (Stepan) and not only are they likely to keep their equivalent of Kreider even with a humongous offer, but because you are not exact matching their needs, you have to pay more.

When someone suggests something outside the narrow scope of what the herd parrots, consider an open mind.

If that's too much a courtesy to extend, feel free to press ignore.
1) I'd like to apologize to a broken clock. It's right twice. I'm still waiting for your second time.

2) I'm sorry you don't get to hide behind the subjectivity of trades. That way you can justify any trade proposal. Maybe we should trade Pouliot for Crosby. But but trades are subjective. That trade was ridiculous. He may be their Kreider, but if another team had Kreider that package would be an overpayment for him too.

3) Sorry thinking outside the box isn't an excuse either. Just because you think outside the box doesn't mean you're right or you're smarter or your trade is even any good. Outside the box trades rarely if ever happen. So they're unrealistic. This trade was not only unrealistic it was TERRIBLE. Thinking outside the box doesn't automatically make you smarter than other people and in this case your posts are worse than anyone else's.

4) You are way too full of yourself, for someone that can't make a post that makes any sense. The people that are most arrogant are usually least worthy of it.

5) You're great entertainment I'm not putting you on ignore.

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Old
11-18-2013, 08:53 AM
  #643
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Yeah who really cares about who was right or wrong. All that matters is the guy is a beast.

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:10 AM
  #644
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I respect bernmeister's ability to produce so many words with so little substance. He should be a politician.

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:10 AM
  #645
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Na na na na na na NO.

I thought and still think he could be a tremendous C -- clearly, needs a little experience on his vision at pro level, and needs to work on his stickhandling -- but otherwise, we see not only his speed, but his leg and body strength, he rushes through the middle, no boards to stop him, would take an extra guy to check him at center ice.

But I did not say he would be a bust if forced to play W.

Come on, admit it.
I was WAY ahead of the whole Kreider thing and I called his being an impact star ahead of almost everyone else.

In fact I got a lot of grief for it

Now I have the last

and is in order
Overkill alert.

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:37 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
...5) You're great entertainment I'm not putting you on ignore.
Same here Bern is hilarious. His proposals are awful and usually gut the team but that's why they're so fun to read. It's like playing a video game.

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:51 AM
  #647
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JVR and Saad were tried at center by their teams. They experiment didn't last very long.

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Old
11-18-2013, 11:22 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
There were a whole bunch of Rangers posters advocating the Rangers draft him in his draft year. My two guys were Zack Kassian and Kreider--Kassian was gone by the time the Rangers picked. You weren't the first and there's another whole bunch of Rangers posters counted on him figuring it out sooner or later who never lost hope. You don't always pay attention to what others are saying. Sometimes I think you're too obsessed with your mostly crazy trade ideas.

As for the first poster on HF to push Kreider in his draft year it happened to be a Bruins poster. I forget his user name but this guy was writing a lot of stuff about Kreider when he was at Phillips Andover. Back in those days Chris wasn't worrying about getting drafted--to him that was a pipe dream. He was worrying whether he was good enough to get a Hockey East scholarship.
Kirk on the Bruins board was the first HF poster to bring up Kreider. The first poster on this board was nyrfan444, (now known as Hatrick Swayze.). The biggest booster of Kreider on this board was Supersonic Monkey, who seems to have disappeared. As for the days leading up to the draft, I seem to recall that not only did I want Kreider with that pick that year, I'm fairly certain that I predicted, the Rangers would draft him if he was on the board when they selected. (It's been verified by that year's draft thread.). Figured I'd set the record straight.

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11-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Kirk on the Bruins board was the first HF poster to bring up Kreider. The first poster on this board was nyrfan444, (now known as Hatrick Swayze.). The biggest booster of Kreider on this board was Supersonic Monkey, who seems to have disappeared. As for the days leading up to the draft, I seem to recall that not only did I want Kreider with that pick that year, I'm fairly certain that I predicted, the Rangers would draft him if he was on the board when they selected. (It's been verified by that year's draft thread.). Figured I'd set the record straight.
Yeah Kirk was the guy. I think Bluenote was very high on Kreider as well. He's usually got some very good draft insight as does his sometimes arch nemesis Jonathan. I forgot how Edge felt. There's a guy who really knows his ****.

Most everyone knew though that Chris Kreider was going to take time to develop. He was probably the rawest of those picked in the first two rounds. Phillips Andover does not provide the same kind of competition or even number of games that almost all the other draft picks in Kreider's draft class had. About 20-25 games a year against subpar mostly inferior competition. If he had been playing in the Minnesota high school leagues he would have been better off let alone in the CHL, the USHL or the Canadian jr. leagues that feed Division 1 college hockey--and it's a big leap for kids in those leagues to make the jump to Division 1 college hockey as 18 year olds even if they've been good enough to be drafted. Kreider had the talent and athleticism to do it even if he hadn't faced very good competition up to that point.

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11-18-2013, 12:07 PM
  #650
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jas and eco's thoughts are pretty spot on with my memory.

I played with a few kids who went to Andover and we drove out to catch a game one weekend. Kreider blew me away. He was just a ridiculous freak of nature at the prep level. Like if that isn't what a surefire NHL player looks like at that level idk what Roenick or Amonte looked like.

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