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It's about time for a Kreider thread

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Old
11-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #776
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
To be fair, he's by far our best forward right now.

That's more than "a capable NHLer"
You're setting him up for: "Being our best forward isn't saying much".

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11-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
To be fair, he's by far our best forward right now.

That's more than "a capable NHLer"
Best forward on a team thats 27th in the league in goal scoring.

Yea, I think Ill stick with my assessment for now.

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Old
11-21-2013, 08:45 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You're setting him up for: "Being our best forward isn't saying much".
Well done.

Next step would actually be trying to refute it.

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11-21-2013, 08:50 AM
  #779
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Oh how well I know BRB.

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Old
11-21-2013, 08:53 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well done.

Next step would actually be trying to refute it.
I can't really refute that. I mean, you stated facts. Only thing I will say is that every team is made up of NHLers and being the best forward on any team is a pretty damn good accomplishment, especially at such a young age. Obviously a bigger accomplishment for the best forward on the Hawks is more impressive than being the best forward on the Sabres, but it's not like it's an ECHL team.

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11-21-2013, 11:27 AM
  #781
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I have this vision of Bern, sitting in front of his computer and charts and deals he wants to make. Rubbing his hands together like Burns and whispering excellent over and over....

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11-21-2013, 11:34 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I have this vision of Bern, sitting in front of his computer and charts and deals he wants to make. Rubbing his hands together like Burns and whispering excellent over and over....
Nah, Bern is the world's greatest troll. Look at his name. Bernmeister or Burnmaster?

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11-21-2013, 01:00 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
What was he when he scored 5 goals on 29 shots in the playoffs 2 years ago? 17.2% shooting percentage. The kid has a great shot.

His shooting percentage is low right now. Law of averages says it will go up. Every player goes through periods like this, but at least Kreider is still contributing in other ways.
Look, I love his game right now, but there are scads of players who have produced goals over a short span. One of the best examples was John Druce.

I hope he becomes a goal scoring force. He isn't yet.

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11-21-2013, 01:03 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
....
Quote:
I know you like to make deals.
Don't we all...

Quote:
Really I kind of get the idea that you think the lot of us are pretty dense
.
Not true. Love is given, respect is earned.
I respect each of you as to the merits of your arguments suggests is fair and appropriate.


Quote:
If only the Rangers did this if only the Rangers did that..but all these Rangers fans knuckleheads here don't get the logic.
I don't blame fellow fans/HFB brothers & sisters for their opinions or the Rangers doing or not doing them.

For example, it is not fault of anybody here NYR hired Torts and we had to endure both the negative + positive he brought, esp. when it is now clear, as I said, he did more harm than good.

It's not as much as "you don't get the logic" which in many cases I don't see eye to eye + vice versa. It is that we have a difference of opinion, and it's good with 95% or so of the community. We just agree to disagree.

But that other 5% have to be arrogant jerks.
So I have to call them out.

How does that go? Better to be pissed off than, ... than...


Quote:
But what the **** with Taylor Hall? Evander Kane? Who the **** cares?
While I may have been ahead of the curve w/these 2 in particular, there are often calls to obtain them. What do you have vs. discussion?

The other thing is, it REALLY is a matter of opinion, and people don't have to agree with me and I with them, about what is the overall net benefit of getting a star talent, even if we gotta take a hit, like ruin def alignment/balance to do so.

It's a fair ? and argument.
Balance-chemistry
vs
Having enough talent to do the job in the first place!

But some people can't entertain that aspect. Fine.
They get dismissive. Still fine but pushing it.
Then they get nasty when I don't bend, buckle and break in capitulation to their point of view. You see what I mean...


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If you really want to help--why don't you see if you can put enough multi player deals together so that you can get us all of Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Alex Ovechkin, Erik Karlsson, Milan Lucic and Shea Weber without giving up Lundqvist, Kreider, McDonagh, Hagelin, McIlrath and Stepan. We'll need a few depth players as well just to give those guys a breather.
Now you are being facetious.

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Old
11-21-2013, 01:04 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I got pilloried for a year and a half on Kreider.
I'm not gonna put everyone through a year and a half gloat fest, but I will make sure that my harshest detractors, who said there was no possible way I could be right, and some who were extremely rude in the process, have to get their comeuppance first.

THEN it can rest.
We are most of the way there, it remains to be seen as I disagreed w/BoomBoomGeofrion about whether or not Kreider, based on his upside and potential, was more valuable than Stepan.

It took real balls, not the artificial kind, to make that call.

It is a little to close to claim victory there, though I expect I will be able to by next season at the latest, if not before. Consider...

While praise for Stepan is in order for upping his game beginning about a year ago, Stepan can only do so much to elevate the play of his linemates. For example, Zuc has had problems w/his game prior to this year. While some of that is a deserved credit to him for improvement, he (Zuc) is not noticeably faster, stronger, etc; yet his presence on offense especially is more effective, pushing even dominant. Reason? Kreider.

Kreider is so fast and gathers extra attention, it opens up ice space making Zuc and the C pro tempore that much more effective. When Zuc plays with Hags, it's similar. Hags has Kreider like speed but not strength in presence, but Kreider-Hags (or vice versa) = 1 -2 punch. We wear out inferior opposition, and hold our own with better teams.

Kreider, with a better, smarter system, is allowing us to dominate time of possession and shots and play in general on most occasions.

Stepan, yes contributes.
But apparently not as much across the board to the same degree.

Be that as it may.
We have time to see how that shakes out.
___________

As to my " babble in your nonsensical trade proposals", a lot of this is stuff you just flat out disagree with, which is fine. You won't be the first or last.

But you are erroneously speaking authoritatively, even if this is something, ironically, you choose to accuse me of.

I never say anything I propose is correct because, ego sum, I am the one who is saying it. It is not by fiat. It is a matter of the merits based on facts, which when absent we estimate.

I recently said one of several ways to go relative to MDZ, in response to a poster who pretty much asked how does MDZ get you EKane, that a package of Staal + MDZ + Brassard for EKane + Redmond + Postma + rights to Burmistrov, was found to be extremely tempting, given Jets need for LD, and only being non-committal to actually move EKane, not value, was cause of hold up.

Whether or not that is our best deal is fair and open to debate.

It is a reasonable ? to ask if that is a good deal.

But you immediately shot it down, asking who would play LD?

McD
Moore
Connor Allen
and likely others further on the depth chart, not counting possible additions.

This was not enough for you, insufficient in your OPINION.
That assessment BY YOU is NOT a statement of FACT.


You then had to make a snide remark, like there was no possible way this could be correct.

You completely rejected the added value of adding a difference maker F, what that does in terms of goals scored, what that does in time of possession in the offensive zone.

It's like when I wanted to do Hall + for Girardi + Staal as a matched pair +
But no, we couldn't dare break up our vaunted defense, even for a top stud we desperately needed at LW in Hall.

Of course, Oiler fans didn't want to move the face of the franchise --- fair enough. I again bring up, as a fan, true, you never want to trade Ted Williams. But if Ted Williams gets you Mickey Mantle AND Whitey Ford, and that pitching let's you be competitive, you have to ask if you wanna do it if the end goal is victory, not player attachment.

Oiler fans are still holding on to Hall, though less tightly then before.


In any event,
It is NOT as cut and dried as you claim it is.

You laugh, and you mock. Do so at your own risk, what goes around comes around.

One of these days, if for no reason other than inevitability alone, a megadeal will happen similar enough to one I proposed and we'll have an opportunity to consider the results.

In the mean time, trades aside, you can look at my generally good track record --- on non trade issues, about our players, and approaches, about Miller, Kreider, Talbot, and losing Torts.

Again, you'll always have Tysen Dowzak to hang over me.
But not as much else as you'd think or you'd like.
It took real balls to make a prediction? What exactly was on the line?

All of us like the feeling about being right early on, but that has nothing to do with having balls.

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Old
11-21-2013, 01:07 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Oh yeah? Prove it. Jesus dude, he's our best prospect, not exactly a shot in the dark.

I don't know what kind of responses you expect, the ideas you propose never happen in reality.
I never said I was the only one taking a "shot in the dark".

I'm saying that I was one of very few who, once Kreider passed a certain theshhold, I was certain he should make it and succeed.

And he is beginning to.

Be honest and admit a LOT of people were not so sure, or sure to the degree I predicted, which has not yet happened, but which is now starting to happen before our eyes.

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Old
11-21-2013, 01:09 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It took real balls to make a prediction? What exactly was on the line?

All of us like the feeling about being right early on, but that has nothing to do with having balls.
I believe I am the only one who forecast Kreider, based on potential was more valuable to NYR than Stepan.

I did this when he was a struggling prospect.

That took balls.

The outcome is a process which is not yet complete, but it looks like I pegged that one correct.

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11-21-2013, 01:12 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I know that's what eating you up. Kreider playing as well as he is doesn't take away from the fact that you were wrong. The problem is you were including Stepan in every one of your fantasy proposals and claiming that Brass/Miller can play his role. That's still wrong.
NO, it isn't and that is the kind of close-mindedness of which I am complaining.

PS --- Brassard already established he COULD do much of what we get from Stepan based on late last year

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11-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
NO, it isn't and that is the kind of close-mindedness of which I am complaining.

PS --- Brassard already established he COULD do much of what we get from Stepan based on late last year
No he definitely cannot, especially not consistently.

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11-21-2013, 01:17 PM
  #790
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bernmeister, your trade proposals are very very very bad. I saw one i think last week that involved trading Staal, Stepan and prospects or picks for Hertl from San Jose. I have no idea how that helps us. No idea whatsoever.

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11-21-2013, 01:17 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
NO, it isn't and that is the kind of close-mindedness of which I am complaining.

PS --- Brassard already established he COULD do much of what we get from Stepan based on late last year



Brassard cant do half of what Stepan does. Stop dude

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11-21-2013, 01:35 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
No he definitely cannot, especially not consistently.
Respectfully agree to disagree.

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Old
11-21-2013, 02:16 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I believe I am the only one who forecast Kreider, based on potential was more valuable to NYR than Stepan.

I did this when he was a struggling prospect.

That took balls.

The outcome is a process which is not yet complete, but it looks like I pegged that one correct.
Dude what balls? Even if Kreider turned out to be the bust of all busts what exactly were you jeopardizing? A few ribings? You already get those because of your ridiculous trade proposals.

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Old
11-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I believe I am the only one who forecast Kreider, based on potential was more valuable to NYR than Stepan.

I did this when he was a struggling prospect.

That took balls.

The outcome is a process which is not yet complete, but it looks like I pegged that one correct.
No--it doesn't take guts, balls courage whatever you want to say that this player is going to be better than that player. Maybe if you lived in Stalin's Russia in the late 40's and 50's and said something that was opposite of the party line that would take some moxie. No one is going to cart you away to a Siberian labor camp for 20 years or worse for saying Kreider is going to be more valuable than Stepan there may be some that don't agree with you but there's no harm done to anyone. I think that's what Chosen is trying to tell you and I suspect that most other people would understand that.

As for the other post yes I was being facetious. But even as facetious a remark as I made was more realistic than the chimeras you're constantly chasing of the next best thing--the Hall's, the Kane's, the Nugent-Hopkins' and who gives a good **** about ****ing Burmistrov? What have any of these guys really accomplished? Ask me about other young players like Erik Karlsson or PK Subban and I'd might feel a little differently. I asked for truly elite NHL players now instead of the maybe elites of the future. That's another thing I'm not sure you're quite getting--that the Rangers aren't chasing the future so much as trying to win a championship this year or in the next couple years and you're forever writing out 20 pages worth of deals that gut the team.

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:11 PM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I believe I am the only one who forecast Kreider, based on potential was more valuable to NYR than Stepan.

I did this when he was a struggling prospect.

That took balls.

The outcome is a process which is not yet complete, but it looks like I pegged that one correct.
Ha.

Kreider has had a good couple of weeks. Hes not more valuable than Stepan, yet. Not by a long shot.

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:17 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
The outcome is a process which is not yet complete, but it looks like I pegged that one correct.
You used 19 words that I can encapsulate in 3.

"Full of ****"

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
NO, it isn't and that is the kind of close-mindedness of which I am complaining.

PS --- Brassard already established he COULD do much of what we get from Stepan based on late last year
I will disagree. Stepan has shown progress every year in the league. Brass has to do it as consistently as Stepan has, for as long as Stepan has. He hasn't.

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11-21-2013, 05:40 PM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ha.

Kreider has had a good couple of weeks. Hes not more valuable than Stepan, yet. Not by a long shot.
By end of next year, that process should be complete.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:42 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I will disagree. Stepan has shown progress every year in the league. Brass has to do it as consistently as Stepan has, for as long as Stepan has. He hasn't.
Apples and oranges.

You're right about Stepan's progress, and Brassard not for as long.

But when given enough opportunity, Brassard DID deliver the results.

That is a factual basis to say we could get by with him and not Stepan, if we could get a major piece for him.

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11-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You used 19 words that I can encapsulate in 3.

"Full of ****"
Very eloquent.

Wanna reduce it to one icon?

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