HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Claude Giroux

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-10-2014, 05:29 PM
  #601
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 13,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Giroux needs someone who can shoot, not Stormtrooper Jr and Simmonds.
hence the

I was thinking about putting read up there who is one of our very best shooters, but that two way play with coots is vital

Jtown is offline  
Old
04-10-2014, 05:37 PM
  #602
Striiker
Orange and Black
 
Striiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
hence the

I was thinking about putting read up there who is one of our very best shooters, but that two way play with coots is vital
How about Gus?

Striiker is offline  
Old
04-10-2014, 07:36 PM
  #603
blinds
Registered User
 
blinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
hence the

I was thinking about putting read up there who is one of our very best shooters, but that two way play with coots is vital
What about putting Couts with Hartnell and Voracek? They're responsible defensively, you don't need to be great to play wing defense.

Something like

Read - Giroux - Schenn
Hartnell - Couts - Voracek
Raffl - Vinny - Simmonds

for next season with Laughton or Raffl centering the 4th.

blinds is offline  
Old
04-10-2014, 08:19 PM
  #604
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 13,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
What about putting Couts with Hartnell and Voracek? They're responsible defensively, you don't need to be great to play wing defense.

Something like

Read - Giroux - Schenn
Hartnell - Couts - Voracek
Raffl - Vinny - Simmonds

for next season with Laughton or Raffl centering the 4th.


Schenn is our 2nd best offensive center and if he plays with voracek he has 60 pt potential.

We would need to see Coots play much better next year to be a 2nd line center.

Jtown is offline  
Old
04-10-2014, 11:02 PM
  #605
Squad50FF
Registered User
 
Squad50FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 93
vCash: 500
Giroux with 82 points, at the very least, has turned in another PPG season. This guy is pretty good.

Squad50FF is offline  
Old
04-10-2014, 11:15 PM
  #606
WelcomeToGirouxSalem
Registered User
 
WelcomeToGirouxSalem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squad50ff View Post
giroux with 82 points, at the very least, has turned in another ppg season. This guy is pretty good.
still not a proven top 5 player though

WelcomeToGirouxSalem is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 07:40 AM
  #607
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
What about putting Couts with Hartnell and Voracek? They're responsible defensively, you don't need to be great to play wing defense.

Something like

Read - Giroux - Schenn
Hartnell - Couts - Voracek
Raffl - Vinny - Simmonds

for next season with Laughton or Raffl centering the 4th.
Does Raffl make Laughton expendable?

I think he might.

Protest is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 07:55 AM
  #608
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Does Raffl make Laughton expendable?

I think he might.
He could in the eyes of management, but I would hope he doesn't. If anything, I would hope Raffl makes Lecavalier expendable. This team needs all the forwards they can get with a high defensive IQ.

flyershockey is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 08:06 AM
  #609
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
He could in the eyes of management, but I would hope he doesn't. If anything, I would hope Raffl makes Lecavalier expendable. This team needs all the forwards they can get with a high defensive IQ.
The problem there is who is more likely to be movable, and what type of return do you get for them.

Protest is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 08:12 AM
  #610
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The problem there is who is more likely to be movable, and what type of return do you get for them.
You're right. Vinny might be as close to un-movable as you're going to get. I believe he has a limited NTC, which means he'll probably only wave to go to a contender. There isn't a contender in the league that's going to want to hand him the keys to the driver seat of their second when they take a look at his defensive play this year. His 25 goals aren't enough to overcome it. The Flyers may be stuck with a guy that has no real spot on this team.

The problem with moving Laughton is that you're not going to get back what you think you should for a former first rounder. He's just not an elite level prospect. That doesn't mean he won't be a solid NHL'er, but he's largely unproven right now and doesn't have a huge upside.

flyershockey is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:29 AM
  #611
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Does Raffl make Laughton expendable?

I think he might.
Until the Cap necessitates moving salary... absolutely not. You keep adding skill, whether it's through the draft (Laughton) or free agency (Raffl), until you can no longer afford to do so. The only thing Laughton does is allow for the Flyers to upgrade the fourth-line on the cheap. Raffl allows for the Flyers to upgrade the third-line. Having both allows for Holmgren to focus on upgrading the defense, which we desperately need. There are some good players in the system, but that's not enough. Besides, there's no telling if LeCavalier goes the way of Hatch'/Rathje/Pronger/Laperriere/Primeau/Betts/etc. or not.

(damn... that's a long list of players that have never survived their contracts).


Last edited by Clown Baby: 04-11-2014 at 09:36 AM.
Clown Baby is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:30 AM
  #612
KaraLupin
카라
 
KaraLupin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Giroux is great now, but just imagine if they can get him a sniping winger in the draft... think of how many times either Stormtrooper or Hatnell have flubbed a golden chance. He could have 20+ more points right now if he would stop passing to them so much and just shoot the damn puck.
Getting someone in the draft would probably have quite a few years of wait time, with Giroux probably being on the downside of his prime. They need to trade for, or free agent sign a sniper around his age.

KaraLupin is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:36 AM
  #613
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Getting someone in the draft would probably have quite a few years of wait time, with Giroux probably being on the downside of his prime. They need to trade for, or free agent sign a sniper around his age.
We're the only team in the NHL with seven 20 goal-scorers! Why the **** do we need another winger when the defense is in total disrepair!

Clown Baby is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:45 AM
  #614
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Until the Cap necessitates moving salary... absolutely not. You keep adding skill, whether it's through the draft (Laughton) or free agency (Raffl), until you can no longer afford to do so. The only thing Laughton does is allow for the Flyers to upgrade the fourth-line on the cheap. Raffl allows for the Flyers to upgrade the third-line. Having both allows for Holmgren to focus on upgrading the defense, which we desperately need. There are some good players in the system, but that's not enough. Besides, there's no telling if LeCavalier goes the way of Hatch'/Rathje/Pronger/Laperriere/Primeau/Betts/etc. or not.

(damn... that's a long list of players that have never survived their contracts).
Well I'm not talking about shipping the kid to Siberia, I meant using him to acquire an upgrade. I understand that you always need ELC players, and an influx of young talent. However, I honestly believe this team isn't that far from cup contention. They have 3 key pieces, a star center, an elite defensive center, and a legitimate starting goalie who's capable of some decent hot streaks.

With Laughton you're looking at a 4th line center, and future 3rd line center. His contributions will likely be minimal for the next several years. If you can package him with something to add someone that can help the team I would do it.

We can upgrade the 4th line by simply not icing morons every night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
We're the only team in the NHL with seven 20 goal-scorers! Why the **** do we need another winger when the defense is in total disrepair!
Because all that offense is easily negated by well structured teams due to our lack of top end talent.

EDIT: That can be resolved if Schenn and Couturier take the next step in their development though. Our biggest problem as a team is our overall lack of speed and hockey IQ, as well as our abundance of PP players, and dearth of possession guys.

We could really use an overhaul to our role players.


Last edited by Protest: 04-11-2014 at 09:53 AM.
Protest is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:54 AM
  #615
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Well I'm not talking about shipping the kid to Siberia, I meant using him to acquire an upgrade. I understand that you always need ELC players, and an influx of young talent. However, I honestly believe this team isn't that far from cup contention. They have 3 key pieces, a star center, an elite defensive center, and a legitimate starting goalie who's capable of some decent hot streaks.

With Laughton you're looking at a 4th line center, and future 3rd line center. His contributions will likely be minimal for the next several years. If you can package him with something to add someone that can help the team I would do it.

We can upgrade the 4th line by simply not icing morons every night.
His value will be greater after a few years, when he's outperformed his role as an NHL player. So many of these rumored trades fall through because teams want a roster player. Think about the Weber offer-sheet. They didn't want four first-round picks. They wanted bodies. Even though we're speculating that Laughton could eventually replace Couturier (debatable), Poille explicitly asked for Couturier, which Holmgren said no to. These kids need to be in the NHL, if you're talking about maximizing the return.

Quote:
Because all that offense is easily negated by well structured teams due to our lack of top end talent.
Really? Because Pittsburgh has a lot more top-end talent, and they fall apart like an old pair of Converse every post-season. It seems to me, the teams that consistently perform well are the ones with a well-rounded defense led by an elite two-way defenseman, neither of which we have which is why we're nervous about playing Boston.

Clown Baby is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 10:05 AM
  #616
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Really? Because Pittsburgh has a lot more top-end talent, and they fall apart like an old pair of Converse every post-season. It seems to me, the teams that consistently perform well are the ones with a well-rounded defense led by an elite two-way defenseman, neither of which we have which is why we're nervous about playing Boston.
Pittsburgh has also won a cup, been to another, and is 1st place in our division. However, they have too much tied up into their top end for the cap world.

I'm not talking about paying 4 players $32 million. I'm saying we're loaded with slower, grindier, crease crashing type players, and not enough people that can shoot the puck, or make a creative play when needed.

When the game is on the line we look to one guy to pull us through, and defense all look at the same dude. He isn't Gretzky, he can't carry the team by himself.

You know that feeling you get when the puck rolls to Stamkos, or Ovechkin, or Kessel or Carter? We have no one that gives other teams that feeling. There's no one on our team except for probably Giroux that makes other fans say "No don't let him shoot." And half the time Giroux passes in those situations anyway lol.

We have a couple big needs. 1) Defense 2) Goal Scorer 3) Mobility & IQ.

We're not getting a #1 d man, but we can get a 1st line winger. And we can also get more mobile and smarter players at both F and D. Like I said before though, that first line winger could be on the team right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's shipped out for a bottom pairing defenseman like the last young 1st line winger we had.

Protest is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 10:28 AM
  #617
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Pittsburgh has also won a cup, been to another, and is 1st place in our division. However, they have too much tied up into their top end for the cap world.

I'm not talking about paying 4 players $32 million. I'm saying we're loaded with slower, grindier, crease crashing type players, and not enough people that can shoot the puck, or make a creative play when needed.
Your original point, which I took issue with, was about finding Giroux a sniper. Which we don't need.

Quote:
When the game is on the line we look to one guy to pull us through, and defense all look at the same dude. He isn't Gretzky, he can't carry the team by himself.
Agreed.

Quote:
You know that feeling you get when the puck rolls to Stamkos, or Ovechkin, or Kessel or Carter? We have no one that gives other teams that feeling. There's no one on our team except for probably Giroux that makes other fans say "No don't let him shoot." And half the time Giroux passes in those situations anyway lol.
Who gives a ****? Stamkos hasn't won anything. Ovechkin hasn't. Kessel hasn't. And Carter was well on his way to winning nothing until he was traded to a team with Kopitar, with Doughty, with Richards, with Williams, with Brown, with Voynov, with Mitchell... you get the picture. How hard or accurately one player shoots the puck does not facilitate post-season success as much as having balance throughout the line-up... which we lack, currently.

Quote:
We have a couple big needs. 1) Defense 2) Goal Scorer 3) Mobility & IQ.

We're not getting a #1 d man, but we can get a 1st line winger. And we can also get more mobile and smarter players at both F and D. Like I said before though, that first line winger could be on the team right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's shipped out for a bottom pairing defenseman like the last young 1st line winger we had.
If we piss away 5-7 million dollars on that first-line winger, we lose the cap space, and consequently the flexibility required to acquire that number one defenseman. It's just a bad idea.

Clown Baby is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 10:38 AM
  #618
Go For It
Registered User
 
Go For It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
If we piss away 5-7 million dollars on that first-line winger, we lose the cap space, and consequently the flexibility required to acquire that number one defenseman. It's just a bad idea.
The chances of us acquiring that number one defenseman through FA or trade are minimal. Our best chance of getting a guy like that is hoping Morin reaches his ceiling or Hagg exceeds expectations.

Go For It is online now  
Old
04-11-2014, 10:45 AM
  #619
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Your original point, which I took issue with, was about finding Giroux a sniper. Which we don't need.

Agreed.

Who gives a ****? Stamkos hasn't won anything. Ovechkin hasn't. Kessel hasn't. And Carter was well on his way to winning nothing until he was traded to a team with Kopitar, with Doughty, with Richards, with Williams, with Brown, with Voynov, with Mitchell... you get the picture. How hard or accurately one player shoots the puck does not facilitate post-season success as much as having balance throughout the line-up... which we lack, currently.

If we piss away 5-7 million dollars on that first-line winger, we lose the cap space, and consequently the flexibility required to acquire that number one defenseman. It's just a bad idea.
1) I disagree. We badly need someone that can score to play with Giroux. Our two in house options are Schenn and Read. Read is in a shutdown roll, and Schenn hasn't been given the opportunity. I'm hoping the coaching staff will change that. Not having a goal scorer is a large part of the reason our offense get's shut down.

2) I never said one player wins a cup. But guess what? LA doesn't win without Carter's goal scoring ability. You talk about balance, but don't realize that a goal scorer is a part of that balance.

Blackwaks - Kane and Toews (23 in 47, 40g pace)
Kings - Carter (21 in 55, 31g pace)
Bruins - Lucic 30g
Blackwaks - Kane 30g
Pens - Malkin/Crosby 30+ each
Red Wings - Zetterberg/Datsyuk 30+ each (Zet with 40+)
Ducks - Selanne 48g
Canes - Staal, Williams, Brind'Amour, Cole 30+ each

Clearly 30g scorers don't matter, since every team since the lockout that won a cup has had at least one.

3) We are not acquiring a #1 Dman. It is not happening. And if it somehow did, it would gut our roster. We need to upgrade our D in the form of Top 4 players with mobility and puck skills. They are difficult to acquire, but much easier than an actual #1D.

Protest is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 05:23 PM
  #620
blinds
Registered User
 
blinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelcomeToGirouxSalem View Post
still not a proven top 5 player though
I don't think being PPG puts him in the top 5. There's a lot of guys near him in points (and some better players were injured) and many of them have more goals. Honestly, 82 points this season is disappointing for Giroux, even with starting with that injury which I think is used too often as an excuse.

He hasn't had much help with the weak seasons Hartnell and Voracek have had, but still, I think most people wanted more than a PPG out of him. Many people were expecting him to prove his 93p in 77gp season wasn't a fluke and he hasn't done that.

I'm happy he's a PPG because it's way beyond anything anyone else on our team is doing, but it's not elite like he showed in 11-12. He's stepped up in other facets of the game, and a lot of that is what's getting him Hart consideration, but his point production is a little disappointing.


Last edited by blinds: 04-11-2014 at 06:04 PM.
blinds is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 07:12 PM
  #621
MP92
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 5,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I don't think being PPG puts him in the top 5. There's a lot of guys near him in points (and some better players were injured) and many of them have more goals. Honestly, 82 points this season is disappointing for Giroux, even with starting with that injury which I think is used too often as an excuse.

He hasn't had much help with the weak seasons Hartnell and Voracek have had, but still, I think most people wanted more than a PPG out of him. Many people were expecting him to prove his 93p in 77gp season wasn't a fluke and he hasn't done that.

I'm happy he's a PPG because it's way beyond anything anyone else on our team is doing, but it's not elite like he showed in 11-12. He's stepped up in other facets of the game, and a lot of that is what's getting him Hart consideration, but his point production is a little disappointing.
I don't think it's disappointing at all. I think anyone who is had their expectations out of whack. Btw, since when is ppg not elite?

MP92 is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 08:13 PM
  #622
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 8,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP92 View Post
I don't think it's disappointing at all. I think anyone who is had their expectations out of whack. Btw, since when is ppg not elite?
Yeh, there are 7 players in the NHL who can say they are PPG or more over this decade:

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
St. Louis
Giroux
Ovechkin
Getzlaf...

that is it.

Giroux has been elite for a good 4 years/300 games now

11th, 3rd, 13th and currently 4th in NHL scoring over the last 4 individual seasons.

3 seasons in a row at PPG or more is rare these days.

Appleyard is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 09:24 PM
  #623
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Yeh, there are 7 players in the NHL who can say they are PPG or more over this decade:

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
St. Louis
Giroux
Ovechkin
Getzlaf...

that is it.

Giroux has been elite for a good 4 years/300 games now

11th, 3rd, 13th and currently 4th in NHL scoring over the last 4 individual seasons.

3 seasons in a row at PPG or more is rare these days.
I believe only Sid, Malkin and Stamkos has been a PPG player in each of the last 3 years. And now a Giroux has joined them. Pretty impressive stuff.

Tripod is online now  
Old
04-11-2014, 10:40 PM
  #624
blinds
Registered User
 
blinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP92 View Post
I don't think it's disappointing at all. I think anyone who is had their expectations out of whack. Btw, since when is ppg not elite?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Yeh, there are 7 players in the NHL who can say they are PPG or more over this decade:

Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
St. Louis
Giroux
Ovechkin
Getzlaf...

that is it.

Giroux has been elite for a good 4 years/300 games now

11th, 3rd, 13th and currently 4th in NHL scoring over the last 4 individual seasons.

3 seasons in a row at PPG or more is rare these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I believe only Sid, Malkin and Stamkos has been a PPG player in each of the last 3 years. And now a Giroux has joined them. Pretty impressive stuff.
I'm just talking about this season and kind of last season. Those stats include his 11-12 season which a lot of people say was a one time thing he won't reproduce while Flyers fans insist he will be able to repeat.

In that respect, I'm saying he's had a disappointing season as it's significantly less productive than that season and validates the idea that he's "only" a PPG that had one great season. I was hoping for another 90+ point season to silence the haters as I'm sure many of us were and he hasn't delivered.

Maybe G is only a PPG player, which, with the decreasing scoring, is still elite. But it's not as good as we've seen him play and it will be disappointing if he doesn't reach that level again.

Being PPG doesn't automatically make him a top 5 player like someone insinuated. In fact, he's lucky if he stays in the top 5 in points being only a PPG because guys like Stamkos, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and others missed time. It only adds to the fact that most of his points are assists and some of the top scorers can put up 40+ goals.

I think G is a top 5 forward, but he hasn't produced like one since 11-12. He's 11th in PPG over the last two seasons with every single player ahead of him (except Zetterberg) and many behind him having a much better GPG.


Last edited by blinds: 04-11-2014 at 10:48 PM.
blinds is offline  
Old
04-11-2014, 11:04 PM
  #625
Striiker
Orange and Black
 
Striiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I'm just talking about this season and kind of last season. Those stats include his 11-12 season which a lot of people say was a one time thing he won't reproduce while Flyers fans insist he will be able to repeat.

In that respect, I'm saying he's had a disappointing season as it's significantly less productive than that season and validates the idea that he's "only" a PPG that had one great season. I was hoping for another 90+ point season to silence the haters as I'm sure many of us were and he hasn't delivered.

Maybe G is only a PPG player, which, with the decreasing scoring, is still elite. But it's not as good as we've seen him play and it will be disappointing if he doesn't reach that level again.

Being PPG doesn't automatically make him a top 5 player like someone insinuated. In fact, he's lucky if he stays in the top 5 in points being only a PPG because guys like Stamkos, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and others missed time. It only adds to the fact that most of his points are assists and some of the top scorers can put up 40+ goals.

I think G is a top 5 forward, but he hasn't produced like one since 11-12. He's 11th in PPG over the last two seasons with every single player ahead of him (except Zetterberg) and many behind him having a much better GPG.
... seriously?

He has absolutely delivered... with the exception of the first few games he's scored at about the same pace as we had hoped and the reason he wasn't producing in the beginning was because he was recovering from an injury and the rest of the team was doing nothing to help. He even has a chance to get a career high in goals despite not scoring one until the 15th game...

I have no idea what you're talking about and it doesn't seem like you do either. How could anyone possibly complain about the season he has had...

Striiker is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.