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Old
04-24-2014, 11:46 AM
  #726
blinds
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Are you even watching him play?

If you were, you would notice he looks fine. But because NYR's entire game plan revolves around shutting him down, he's not putting up points. What he is doing is taking all their attention and letting others (Voracek, for instance...which is why it's terribly stupid his ice time is minimal) have room to work.

You need to look at the real problems...Schenn and Vinny, and Berube. Giroux has drawn all the defensive attention. That line SHOULD use the opportunity to step up and produce, and by doing so take some of that attention from Giroux. They aren't, they're failing completely and actually playing terribly....unlike Giroux.

You've made it clear you only want to crap on the team's leadership, be it Lavi or Giroux. It's not very well reasoned.
This is why they need to break up G and Jake. Jake's good enough to run his own line offensively, and if Giroux draws the tough match ups it lets Jake have his way with the easier ones. With Jake playing the way he is, having them on separate lines would give us two legitimate scoring threats instead of the completely incompetent 2nd line we have now.

Plus it lets either Vinny or Schenn get some ice time with Giroux, two guys who have a knack for finding open ice and have some of the best shots on our team. With Giroux regularly drawing 2-man coverage, there's that much more ice for one of them to find. RW is a much better fit than LW for both of them as well.

Giroux-Vinny and Schenn-Voracek (or G-Schenn, Vinny-Jake) are much better complementary pairs than Giroux-Voracek and Vinny-Schenn. The way they are now, the play styles are too similar.

Then you just gotta figure out left wing, but all of our left wings are useless anyway. I'd like to see Read get a shot on a scoring line, Raffl can fill his spot with Couts.

Maybe something like:

Hartnell - G - Vinny
Read - Schenn - Voracek
Raffl - Couts - Simmonds

I like that top 6 better, Simmonds probably shouldn't be in it given his ES play and our RW depth. Hartnell hasn't been playing like a top liner, but we don't have any other options.


Last edited by blinds: 04-24-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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04-24-2014, 11:51 AM
  #727
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Elite players go through funks. Giroux has always struggled against the Rangers but if you think for a minute he is not doing all he can to help this team win, you're not watching and you don't know very much about him.

There's a guy on the other side of the state who is considered by most to be the best player in the sport. He hasn't scored in 9 games. If he can go through slumps like that, anyone can.

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04-24-2014, 11:52 AM
  #728
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Aside from Giroux, Voracek is the only scoring player we have not used in a shutdown role that I'm actually confident to carry puck possession and make plays. Couturier and Read can do that to an extent but, again, shutdown line. Literally everyone else is more of a finisher, garbage man, or crease crashed/net presence. Lecavalier has a pretty good shot and crazy one-timer, Simmonds and Hartnell make livings around the net, Schenn can't seem to do anything greatly aside from finishing chances around the slot area. That's pretty much everybody.

So moving Voracek elsewhere might be worth trying at least. Definitely increase his ice-time though.

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04-24-2014, 11:53 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Exactly my point. I like the guy too, but all we're getting out of him is regular season performance. No question he piles up a lot of points in the regular season but he's silenced by solid defensive teams time and time again.

That's why he's a Robin, although in the regular season he may be a Batman. There's a BIG difference and we're witnessing it now.
You sound like Skip Bayless if he were to talk hockey

And aren't you the guy who said Bergeron is better than Giroux? Why should anyone take what you say seriously?

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04-24-2014, 11:54 AM
  #730
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Elite players go through funks. Giroux has always struggled against the Rangers but if you think for a minute he is not doing all he can to help this team win, you're not watching and you don't know very much about him.

There's a guy on the other side of the state who is considered by most to be the best player in the sport. He hasn't scored in 9 games. If he can go through slumps like that, anyone can.
Yeah, and that guy is drawing all of CBJ's attention. Malkin has looked great and has tons of room to work as a result. Because their coach at least knows not to put them on the same line in that situation.

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04-24-2014, 11:58 AM
  #731
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Anyone think there's a chance Berube changes the lines before this series is over? I think most people would agree breaking up Giroux and Voracek would help balance our lines and open up scoring chances.

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04-24-2014, 12:00 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Do people forget how good Giroux was when we went to the Cup Finals??? I think they do.....

53 games played, 57 points. No, to prove my point we must remove these stats to show he doesn't play good in the playoffs! I don't know how you can not understand why people think that is asinine.
Huh? Pointless in 4 of 6 games, held without a shot on goal in 3 of 6. 2G 2A in 6 games and 3 of the 4 points were in one game. That was Mike Richards team and Giroux was Robin. Richards was trying to be Batman and as we all know now he's not a Batman either.

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04-24-2014, 12:01 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Are you even watching him play?

If you were, you would notice he looks fine. But because NYR's entire game plan revolves around shutting him down, he's not putting up points. What he is doing is taking all their attention and letting others (Voracek, for instance...which is why it's terribly stupid his ice time is minimal) have room to work.

You need to look at the real problems...Schenn and Vinny, and Berube. Giroux has drawn all the defensive attention. That line SHOULD use the opportunity to step up and produce, and by doing so take some of that attention from Giroux. They aren't, they're failing completely and actually playing terribly....unlike Giroux.

You've made it clear you only want to crap on the team's leadership, be it Lavi or Giroux. It's not very well reasoned.
This is exactly the reason why Voracek is flying right now, and a great example of why Hartnell should not be on the top line (ideally).

I swear - these boards light up when the Flyers are playing poorly. Meltzer even mentioned it in a Hockeybuzz post earlier in the year. It's not like we're a top seeded, cup contending team that's disappointing right now - we're one point ahead of the wildcard teams. We have a weak defense, weak defensive forwards, an injured goalie, and we're playing a divisional rival that we've had a lot of trouble with in the past few years. It feels like a lot of Philly fans just expected us to come in and sweep this series with the way they're reacting.

As for Giroux, I can't think of another elite player that's polarizing as him. I don't know what it is - it just seems like he doesn't get as much credit or media attention as some of the other star players around the league. He's basically a one man team, on offense, and even Philly fans want to blame him right now.

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04-24-2014, 12:01 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Huh? Pointless in 4 of 6 games, held without a shot on goal in 3 of 6. 2G 2A in 6 games and 3 of the 4 points were in one game. That was Mike Richards team and Giroux was Robin. Richards was trying to be Batman and as we all know now he's not a Batman either.
Where is your blame for the players who are ACTUALLY playing like crap? And I don't mean guys who actually look fine and are meeting a defensive wall, I mean the guy who are garbage all on their own.

Oh right, they don't wear the C so I guess they're blameless. In fact I guess it's G's fault they're so bad because he's not psychically controlling them from the bench.

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04-24-2014, 12:02 PM
  #735
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Microsoft Word "Photoshop" abilities strike again!


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04-24-2014, 12:08 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Anyone think there's a chance Berube changes the lines before this series is over? I think most people would agree breaking up Giroux and Voracek would help balance our lines and open up scoring chances.
Hell probably switch 'em up a bit, in fact he already did by putting Lecavalier back at the second line last game. It's probably going to be the same exact changes we've seen a million times before though. Keep floating Lecavalier around the bottom three lines, switch Schenn between wing and center, maybe switch between Rinaldo and Rosehill.

Other changes that would seem really smart or haven't been tried much Berube has already proven he's really not open to. Not using Gustafsson or Gill at all, keeping Grossmann in before those two and probably Schenn, keeping Timonen on the first PP and Streit on the second, putting Couturier in anything but a shutdown role, etc. Those kinds of changes he has really proven he's not wanting to do would probably take us losing next game and thus a do-or-due situation and even then I'm not sure any of those changes would be made.

The usual moving Lecavalier around everywhere and switching Rosehill/Rinaldo isn't going to do a hell of a lot .

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04-24-2014, 12:10 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Huh? Pointless in 4 of 6 games, held without a shot on goal in 3 of 6. 2G 2A in 6 games and 3 of the 4 points were in one game. That was Mike Richards team and Giroux was Robin. Richards was trying to be Batman and as we all know now he's not a Batman either.
Lol so now Batman means cup or bust? I thought it was Batman = Crosby and if you're not Batman you suck.

So I guess Toews, Krejci, Kopitar are all Batmans too, but only during cup finals? Because Giroux has been better than them, so they can't be Batmans in the regular season.

And who was Briere if Richards was trying to be Batman?

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04-24-2014, 12:14 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I swear - these boards light up when the Flyers are playing poorly. Meltzer even mentioned it in a Hockeybuzz post earlier in the year. It's not like we're a top seeded, cup contending team that's disappointing right now - we're one point ahead of the wildcard teams. We have a weak defense, weak defensive forwards, an injured goalie, and we're playing a divisional rival that we've had a lot of trouble with in the past few years. It feels like a lot of Philly fans just expected us to come in and sweep this series with the way they're reacting.
Its a human thing to be more interested in negative stuff. Negative news stories are easier to find and a lot easier to talk about then positive ones.

It applies to more then just sports or this specific fan base. Besides, if were winning everyone's happy and what is there to talk about? "Yay, were awesome"? If were bad or under performing there's emotions to vent and stuff to talk about that involves critical thinking and trying to make the team better.

#Psychologyofstuffandthings

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04-24-2014, 12:14 PM
  #739
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Microsoft Word "Photoshop" abilities strike again!

Looks fun. I wanna do it too.




To make everyone happy, since I'm such a nice guy, I included a nipple. 35NW8ING firmly believes Giroux is garbage, and everyone knows nipple-batman is also garbage.

Compromise!

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04-24-2014, 12:15 PM
  #740
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Lol so now Batman means cup or bust? I thought it was Batman = Crosby and if you're not Batman you suck.

So I guess Toews, Krejci, Kopitar are all Batmans too, but only during cup finals? Because Giroux has been better than them, so they can't be Batmans in the regular season.

And who was Briere if Richards was trying to be Batman?

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04-24-2014, 12:17 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Hell probably switch 'em up a bit, in fact he already did by putting Lecavalier back at the second line last game. It's probably going to be the same exact changes we've seen a million times before though. Keep floating Lecavalier around the bottom three lines, switch Schenn between wing and center, maybe switch between Rinaldo and Rosehill.

Other changes that would seem really smart or haven't been tried much Berube has already proven he's really not open to. Not using Gustafsson or Gill at all, keeping Grossmann in before those two and probably Schenn, keeping Timonen on the first PP and Streit on the second, putting Couturier in anything but a shutdown role, etc. Those kinds of changes he has really proven he's not wanting to do would probably take us losing next game and thus a do-or-due situation and even then I'm not sure any of those changes would be made.

The usual moving Lecavalier around everywhere and switching Rosehill/Rinaldo isn't going to do a hell of a lot .
Berube seems scared to take any kind of risk.. ever, or to deviate from the usual game plan.

Crunch time when we're down a goal, on the PP? Better give the second unit a minute. Down a goal with 5 minutes left? Give the 4th line a shift, it's only fair. We need offense? Better give Grossmann the most ice time.

Nothing else working? Move Vinny somewhere where he won't get any help.

And where are the clutch timeouts?! Did he learn nothing from Laviolette?

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04-24-2014, 12:18 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Perfect lol.

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04-24-2014, 12:19 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Berube seems scared to take any kind of risk.. ever, or to deviate from the usual game plan.

Crunch time when we're down a goal, on the PP? Better give the second unit a minute. Down a goal with 5 minutes left? Give the 4th line a shift, it's only fair. We need offense? Better give Grossmann the most ice time.

Nothing else working? Move Vinny somewhere where he won't get any help.

And where are the clutch timeouts?! Did he learn nothing from Laviolette?
Maybe were out of coke machines?

His timeouts were awesome.

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04-24-2014, 12:20 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Looks fun. I wanna do it too.




To make everyone happy, since I'm such a nice guy, I included a nipple. 35NW8ING firmly believes Giroux is garbage, and everyone knows nipple-batman is also garbage.

Compromise!
This is just magnificent. Truly a job well done.

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04-24-2014, 12:26 PM
  #745
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how about this line combo.....

read giroux vinny
hartnell schenn Jake
raffl coots simmonds
straka cousins akenson
risky but very capable to perform offense and give good balance through all 4 lines to
provide offense and not be a liability .... i know straka and cousins have no nhl experience but i think its worth the try

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04-24-2014, 12:28 PM
  #746
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04-24-2014, 12:29 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I think people expect Giroux to be Jesus or something.

No player in the NHL can win a game by themselves or carry an entire offense. Crosby is widely considered the best player in the game and he can't do it. Ovechkin is considered the best goal scorer in the world and he can't do it. Kessel was one of the best offensive players in the league and his team missed the playoffs after his line went dry and nobody stepped up to replace his scoring. Stamkos is one of the best players in the league, considered better then Giroux by most, and widely considered the second best goal scorer in the world. His team just got swept out of the playoffs and he was pointless in two of the four games with only four points in four games overall. Bet you nobody is slamming him because he's freaking Steven Stamkos and not many people are that stupid.

Giroux has two points in three games and hasn't even been a minus player in any of the games. He's doing fine.

Giroux was also third in NHL regular season scoring, has been absolutely elite the last few seasons in both regular season and playoff scoring, and he plays on an otherwise pretty bad team with probably the biggest drop-off in scoring talent from one (Giroux) to two (Voracek?) league-wide. It's like a freaking thirty point gap or something similarly insane. Even in this series he's still tied for team scoring lead even though he only has two points and the Rangers best D pasted to him every game.

He's one of the best players in the league, this team is pretty sub- par to average in every area after him, has pretty **** secondary scoring, were playing a tightly-sealed team defensively, he has two points in three games with no egregious mistakes I can think of, players naturally go through ebbs and flows offensively, and it's supposed to be a team game not the Giroux versus everybody show. Right now this is a systematic failure and team-wide roster failure because our coach is stupid at times and the roster is very poorly constructed after we get past Giroux.

He might be Ginger Jesus but he's not Jesus. I do appreciate these kinds of threads for letting me know who the clueless people and trolls are.
Nice post, you win the internets!

I'm convinced that those folks who come out of the wood work now don't even necessarily believe what they are saying, but were the same ones earlier in the season when G was slumping that made the ridiculous statements like "he is no more than a 0.5ppg player" and "we are going to regret his contract". Now they are more concerned with vindicating themselves to not look like they were ridiculous in their original statements by focusing on his scoring in 3 games. Guess that is how the internet works.

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04-24-2014, 12:32 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelmitchell View Post
how about this line combo.....

read giroux vinny
hartnell schenn Jake
raffl coots simmonds
straka cousins akenson
risky but very capable to perform offense and give good balance through all 4 lines to
provide offense and not be a liability .... i know straka and cousins have no nhl experience but i think its worth the try
No problem on the shaking up of the lines, but not with Straka and Cousins in there. You can bench Rinaldo, he hasn't done what he needs to do during this series (i.e., stir the pot and create havoc), but I don't think you put Straka or Cousins in. It's gotta be Laughton coming in if someone is getting benched. It should under no circumstances be Rosehill, so if someone is getting benched, I think Laughton has to be the guy. If not Laughton, I'd go with Holmstrom, then probably McGinn.

And why are we benching Hall? He's been pretty solid this series from what I have noticed. I don't think Hall should be benched at all. Rinaldo I'd be fine benching (though I don't think it HAS to be done), but Hall should be playing.

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04-24-2014, 12:32 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelmitchell View Post
how about this line combo.....

read giroux vinny
hartnell schenn Jake
raffl coots simmonds
straka cousins akenson
risky but very capable to perform offense and give good balance through all 4 lines to
provide offense and not be a liability .... i know straka and cousins have no nhl experience but i think its worth the try
This is exactly what I want to see (well, 4th line debatable), with Vinny/Schenn being interchangeable in those spots. Those lines just seem much more balanced compared to what we have now. Especially the 2nd, it actually looks like a functional line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
And why are we benching Hall? He's been pretty solid this series from what I have noticed. I don't think Hall should be benched at all. Rinaldo I'd be fine benching (though I don't think it HAS to be done), but Hall should be playing.
I agree completely, Hall has been great this series and the only guy who can be relied on for draws other than Giroux.

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04-24-2014, 12:36 PM
  #750
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What are the odds G is playing with some form of injury? He looks like the beginning of the season aka weak wrist

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