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Old
04-24-2014, 03:44 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Where is your blame for the players who are ACTUALLY playing like crap? And I don't mean guys who actually look fine and are meeting a defensive wall, I mean the guy who are garbage all on their own.

Oh right, they don't wear the C so I guess they're blameless. In fact I guess it's G's fault they're so bad because he's not psychically controlling them from the bench.
I never said G was the only one playing like crap but those other players aren't the captain, don't make guarantees, and aren't looked upon to lift a team when it needs it most.

You're given the C because you're supposed to be a leader, especially in playoff situations. You're not supposed to disappear like Houdini when the going gets tough. If more pedestrian players can elevate their game in the post season, why can't our guy?

No doubt he's a numbers machine in the regular season. You can carve out a nice career with regular season success and even make the HOF. You cement your legacy in the post season and that's where he comes up short.

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04-24-2014, 03:49 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
[mod] Bergeron get 90 points? Giroux doesn't elevate his game when it matters? You're just making **** up to antagonize people here. Bye.
He doesn't elevate it when it matters MOST, the post season. He piled up a lot of points in the PITT series 2 years ago and that makes his career playoff numbers a little hollow.

And no I didn't make anything up. People who have played the game said Bergeron would easily have 90 pts if he didn't sacrifice his offense for his defensive responsibilities. I happen to agree.

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04-24-2014, 03:50 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
OK so lets recap the stupidity.

Briere - Batman

Crosby - Batman

Malkin - Batman

Bergeron - Alpha Batman

Giroux - Robin

So going by this,

Giroux < Briere

Giroux < Bergeron AINEC

Well that sounds reasonable.
Try again. I never called Briere, Malkin, or Bergeron Batman.

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04-24-2014, 03:56 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
I never said G was the only one playing like crap but those other players aren't the captain, don't make guarantees, and aren't looked upon to lift a team when it needs it most.

You're given the C because you're supposed to be a leader, especially in playoff situations. You're not supposed to disappear like Houdini when the going gets tough. If more pedestrian players can elevate their game in the post season, why can't our guy?

No doubt he's a numbers machine in the regular season. You can carve out a nice career with regular season success and even make the HOF. You cement your legacy in the post season and that's where he comes up short.
So I guess Toews, Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos are all not good leaders either, because all of those guys have went into slumps in the playoffs at one point in time. 3 of them in this year's playoffs. and two of them are former Conn Smythe winners. But I guess they're all chokers too now, right?

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04-24-2014, 04:02 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
I never said G was the only one playing like crap but those other players aren't the captain, don't make guarantees, and aren't looked upon to lift a team when it needs it most.

You're given the C because you're supposed to be a leader, especially in playoff situations. You're not supposed to disappear like Houdini when the going gets tough. If more pedestrian players can elevate their game in the post season, why can't our guy?

No doubt he's a numbers machine in the regular season. You can carve out a nice career with regular season success and even make the HOF. You cement your legacy in the post season and that's where he comes up short.
Did you know he's over a point per game in his career in the playoffs? That doesn't scream "comes up small."

Again, pay some actual attention to him on the ice, what he's doing, and what the Rangers are doing in response. Then compare that to him when he was injured early in the season. Then you'll know what it actually looks like when he's playing poorly.

He's playing just fine right now. The Rangers are just focusing on him and shutting him down. It seems like you expect this guy to be Wayne Gretzky or something. Without other players stepping up to relieve pressure on him he will struggle to produce.

Hell, as it is he has 2 points in 3 games despite being the main focus of a strong defense. You're just completely unreasonable with your expectations. I sense that it doesn't matter who the captain is, you would be crapping on them for not doing enough.


Edit: Everyone on his line is tied for the lead in points at 2 apiece. Despite the Rangers doing everything they can to shut them down, they're still leading the team. Since they're, you know, LEADING, your blubbering about not setting an example falls flat really quickly.

Edit 2: Oh, and he has a team leading +3.

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Last edited by Beef Invictus: 04-24-2014 at 04:12 PM.
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04-24-2014, 04:20 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by bauerhockey02 View Post
The Penguins are still waiting for a goal from both Crosby and Malkin. Crosby has 4 points in 4 games but one game he had two assists and another 0, same with Malkin. So what is your point here? Statistically he is performing similar to those two and we can see that he puts forth the effort. As others have said, the Rangers are focused on shutting him down.
Everyone trys to shut down Crosby and Malkin but they both found a way to somehow win a Stanley Cup. Our leader has yet to step up when his team needs him most. He rode shotgun on the third line in 09-10, actually rode in the back seat, and since he's been handed the keys has one pond hockey series where everybody but Wayneo piled up points, one humiliting loss to the Devils where he was absent, and he's still MIA this post season.

I'm not making this stuff up. When you peruse hockey articles and you see headlines like "Where's the Captain," "Paging Claude Giroux," etc, it means the captain has to step up. Idc about some weeknight in February when we pile up goals and points against some hapless opponent. This is the season that matters, in all sports. Reggie Jackson is Mr. October, not Mr. July.

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04-24-2014, 04:30 PM
  #782
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oh god. lmfao.

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04-24-2014, 04:34 PM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Everyone trys to shut down Crosby and Malkin but they both found a way to somehow win a Stanley Cup. Our leader has yet to step up when his team needs him most. He rode shotgun on the third line in 09-10, actually rode in the back seat, and since he's been handed the keys has one pond hockey series where everybody but Wayneo piled up points, one humiliting loss to the Devils where he was absent, and he's still MIA this post season.

I'm not making this stuff up. When you peruse hockey articles and you see headlines like "Where's the Captain," "Paging Claude Giroux," etc, it means the captain has to step up. Idc about some weeknight in February when we pile up goals and points against some hapless opponent. This is the season that matters, in all sports. Reggie Jackson is Mr. October, not Mr. July.
When Malkin and Crosby won a Cup they did it on a team with loads of depth. If teams focused on Malkin or Crosby, someone else would score. Opposition was spread thin trying to keep up, creating opportunities for all lines, including Malkin's and Crosby's. Now that their team has no depth, those two get shut down routinely.

Because the second line is completely useless on this team, the Rangers are free to focus completely on Giroux. Despite that, he has 2 points in 3 games and is a +3...not bad at all. Pretty good, actually. Giroux and his linemates won't really light it up until the second line does something useful and relieves pressure on the first line.

I don't know how to make that any simpler for you. Simmonds, Lecavalier, and Schenn are the issue here. Not Giroux.

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04-24-2014, 04:35 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Everyone trys to shut down Crosby and Malkin but they both found a way to somehow win a Stanley Cup. Our leader has yet to step up when his team needs him most. He rode shotgun on the third line in 09-10, actually rode in the back seat, and since he's been handed the keys has one pond hockey series where everybody but Wayneo piled up points, one humiliting loss to the Devils where he was absent, and he's still MIA this post season.

I'm not making this stuff up. When you peruse hockey articles and you see headlines like "Where's the Captain," "Paging Claude Giroux," etc, it means the captain has to step up. Idc about some weeknight in February when we pile up goals and points against some hapless opponent. This is the season that matters, in all sports. Reggie Jackson is Mr. October, not Mr. July.
The points you bring up are true, but they need to understood in context. Goals at this point are going to come at a premium, especially against this rangers team. I don't think you are going to see too many teams put up big numbers against the rangers. IF we were playing a more wide open team like the ducks or pens then G would be at a ppg plus, but this series is not that series. G can be shutdown physically. Not many players in his paygrade can but he can unfortunately, That is why he needs a linemate to give him some time and space and only jake is capable of that right now.

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04-24-2014, 04:40 PM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Everyone trys to shut down Crosby and Malkin but they both found a way to somehow win a Stanley Cup. Our leader has yet to step up when his team needs him most. He rode shotgun on the third line in 09-10, actually rode in the back seat, and since he's been handed the keys has one pond hockey series where everybody but Wayneo piled up points, one humiliting loss to the Devils where he was absent, and he's still MIA this post season.

I'm not making this stuff up. When you peruse hockey articles and you see headlines like "Where's the Captain," "Paging Claude Giroux," etc, it means the captain has to step up. Idc about some weeknight in February when we pile up goals and points against some hapless opponent. This is the season that matters, in all sports. Reggie Jackson is Mr. October, not Mr. July.
09-10, the year he wasn't a leader on the team, his first full season in the league, and the last time he wasn't a point per game player yet still put up 21 points in 23 games despite being on the third line as you say.

Loss to the devils when he had broken wrists from the faceoffs with Crosby that required offseason surgery afterwards.

You may not be making up the articles but you are ignoring that he is tied for the lead in points on the team. You also say that teams will try to shutdown Crosby and Malkin as though that is an acceptable excuse for them but not for Giroux even though with them a teams focus would be split rather than focused like it is on Giroux in this series. Crosby and Malkin also haven't done much to find ways to have their team successful in the playoffs since that cup win since winning a cup is a team effort and the team as changed since then.

Crosby and Malkin have no goals against Columbus when Columbus has a split focus in shutting them down. Giroux needs to shoot more but he is facing a complete focus of being shut down by the Rangers. He hasn't been his best but he is still noticeable with his effort and still tied for the lead in points on the team while being the main defensive focus of the other team.

Edit:
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Bobby Mac was just on TSN Radio 1050, he said the Pens' "Big 4" of Crosby, Malkin, Neal and Kunitz have COMBINED for a grand total of two goals in the last 8 playoff games.


Last edited by bauerhockey02: 04-24-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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04-24-2014, 05:39 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Please list the players in this league you could drop into Giroux's spot, with his level of support, who would perform better.
Crosby
Malkin
Zetterberg
Kessel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Thorton
Seguin
Perry
Hall

All of them would perform at least equally and at least 7 would be better.

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04-24-2014, 05:47 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Zetterberg
Kessel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Thorton
Seguin
Perry
Hall

All of them would perform at least equally and at least 7 would be better.
You know he doesn't even play center? And he's always been on a line with Getzlaf.

Malkin and Crosby both only have 4 assists in 4 games - and are facing a much weaker defensive team with the responsibility of matching lines against BOTH of these players, so objectively, they're not doing a hell of a lot better than G.

Half of these guys aren't even in the playoffs. You're basically just playing "what if" with this list.

It's like you only like the idea of context if it supports your argument. This list is out there man - I don't even know how to respond.

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04-24-2014, 05:52 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
You know he doesn't even play center? And he's always been on a line with Getzlaf.

Malkin and Crosby both only have 4 assists in 4 games - and are facing a much weaker defensive team with the responsibility of matching lines against BOTH of these players, so objectively, they're not doing a hell of a lot better than G.

Half of these guys aren't even in the playoffs. You're basically just playing "what if" with this list.

It's like you only like the idea of context if it supports your argument. This list is out there man - I don't even know how to respond.
Hall is a winger as well and based on what 35NW8ING has said before, the regular season doesn't matter. He has never been in the playoffs before. This is a contradiction.

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04-24-2014, 06:38 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Try again. I never called Briere, Malkin, or Bergeron Batman.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh of course not, that'd be stupid

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04-24-2014, 06:38 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Zetterberg
Kessel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Thorton
Seguin
Perry
Hall

All of them would perform at least equally and at least 7 would be better.
Oh really? Bergeron, the guy who isn't as good offensively as Giroux, would do better than Giroux in his circumstances? With his lack of support, and the defensive spotlight on him?

Malkin and Crosby, who get shut down individually all the damned time because they lack depth on their team, would somehow magically do better on a team with even less support? You do know that Malkin has all of 1 more point than Giroux, in two more games, with Crosby to take the heat off him, in an easier matchup, right?

Kessel, a winger who is easily an inferior player to Giroux in the regular season and playoffs, somehow steps into his role at center and does better?

How do you figure that Seguin, again with the same number of points as Giroux in more games played, and also on a team with more than one line that can be keyed in on easily by the opposition's defense, will somehow step into Giroux's shoes and do better, with no secondary scoring support to take the defensive heat off him?



Zetterberg, a left wing who Giroux has outperformed for a few years now, somehow magically does better in a situation with less support, at a position he doesn't play?

Stamkos might. But it's still doubtful that he could do a damned thing with zero support from any other lines and with NYR focused on shutting him down.

How do you figure that Thorton, the guy with less points than Giroux in more games played on a stronger team where he has more room to work and more support, somehow does BETTER than Giroux in a harder situation?

Perry: Yet another guy tied with Giroux for points...in more games played...on a much deeper offense that can take the focus off him. How exactly do you see him doing better than Giroux when he can't even do better in an easier situation? While also switching from right wing to center?

Hall: Taylor Hall? The guy Giroux beat in point production this year, who has zero playoff experience at all, is worse defensively, is going to come in and outproduce Giroux playing out of position? Are you serious?


How many times do you need to be proven wrong before you realize you're wrong? You're really grasping at straws here, especially when you think wingers who Giroux outperformed this year will somehow learn how to play center and outperform him while being the focus of NY's D at the same time. The only player who would clearly do better is Crosby. The best player in the world. Do you realize how laughable your expectations are yet?

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04-24-2014, 06:45 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Zetterberg
Kessel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Thorton
Seguin
Perry
Hall

All of them would perform at least equally and at least 7 would be better.
oh my god ****in lul


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04-24-2014, 07:20 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Try again. I never called Briere, Malkin, or Bergeron Batman.
I like how you don't take issue with Giroux being worse then Briere and Bergeron, but with who is Batman.

I am Batman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Everyone trys to shut down Crosby and Malkin but they both found a way to somehow win a Stanley Cup.
...like half a decade ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Zetterberg
Kessel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Thorton
Seguin
Perry
Hall

All of them would perform at least equally and at least 7 would be better.
One of those isn't even in the playoffs because his team crumbled at the same time his offense dried up and the other has never even been in the playoffs. A lot of those aren't even centers.

You're not even trying now.

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04-24-2014, 07:45 PM
  #793
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I like how you don't take issue with Giroux being worse then Briere and Bergeron, but with who is Batman.

I am Batman.



...like half a decade ago.



One of those isn't even in the playoffs because his team crumbled at the same time his offense dried up and the other has never even been in the playoffs. A lot of those aren't even centers.

You're not even trying now.

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04-24-2014, 08:31 PM
  #794
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In this video, a player who completely lacks the ability to step up and lead:


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04-24-2014, 08:34 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
In this video, a player who completely lacks the ability to step up and lead:

But that was a pond hockey series where everyone but Simmonds stepped up I thought

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04-24-2014, 08:37 PM
  #796
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But that was a pond hockey series where everyone but Simmonds stepped up I thought
I'm guessing if it's something Giroux did well, then it doesn't count for some reason.

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04-24-2014, 08:40 PM
  #797
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Batman and Robin should be the playoff theme next year

Too bad he couldn't say this stupid **** a couple weeks ago.

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04-24-2014, 08:40 PM
  #798
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I'm guessing if it's something Giroux did well, then it doesn't count for some reason.

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04-24-2014, 08:56 PM
  #799
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The view over Philadelphia:


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04-24-2014, 09:12 PM
  #800
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Batman and Robin should be the playoff theme next year

Too bad he couldn't say this stupid **** a couple weeks ago.
Never too late.

Maybe Giroux needs to know that he's the hero we need and not the one we deserve.

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