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Old
11-03-2013, 05:50 PM
  #176
Zajacs Bowl Cut
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all the discounts they had were helping

but they don't or havent been doing them recently

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11-03-2013, 05:54 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
all the discounts they had were helping

but they don't or havent been doing them recently
Which ones? I still see a ton around. Especially youth ones? I feel like we see them often.

Maybe last year made it seem like there were a ton more because of the shortened season.

I think you have to question how low these tickets can actually go before management says "can we make a profit here in NJ at all?"

My biggest fear (and it's irrational) is that these owners are thinking of moving the Devils out of NJ. Tanking attendance, demonstrating that there's no support, moving it to a location that will make them money, and then flipping the team to a Canadian or something for double what they paid.

And then, they still have the arena. Which is one of the top grossing venues in the world on its own.

Very irrational fear, I admit, but these owners haven't exactly been the greatest since they've come here. Given how poor fan relations have been, raising balconies to 38/45 dollars or whatever it is for next year, and the lower reporting of attendance - I'm a little paranoid.

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11-03-2013, 05:54 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Yup. Which is why, I'm guessing, they're pushing the whole "We! Are! Jersey!" nonsense. Trying to develop a sense of pride to the state so people will relate the Devils to Jersey and only Jersey. I think it's a silly way to do it considering people from New York have shown a willingness to embrace teams from NJ in the past. No as high in numbers as the other way around, but still.

I still stand by my original point that the best way to gain fans here in 2013 is to market towards the young adult crowd. It's really the best shot they have to build a strong, solid fan base. I encourage them to build the Diablos fan section (possibly expand) and create a reputation here in NJ for a loud/crazy arena so at the very least we're marketing something.

What are we marketing? Marty? Marty isn't getting you casual fans. You want casual fans? College age kids looking for a good time or young adults looking to go a little crazy for a night? You create a loud, rowdy atmosphere. Create that reputation so people will say "Hey, I heard Devils games are fun. Those fans are loud and it's one giant party. Maybe we should go?"

Targeting families I think is silly at this point, in my opinion. You need your very young fan base to grow up and have families before you have enough support to do that.
You want the Devils to target a segment that has little to no disposable income and disregard the one with the most to spend? Will never happen. Ever.

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11-03-2013, 05:59 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Which ones? I still see a ton around. Especially youth ones? I feel like we see them often.

Maybe last year made it seem like there were a ton more because of the shortened season.

I think you have to question how low these tickets can actually go before management says "can we make a profit here in NJ at all?"

My biggest fear (and it's irrational) is that these owners are thinking of moving the Devils out of NJ. Tanking attendance, demonstrating that there's no support, moving it to a location that will make them money, and then flipping the team to a Canadian or something for double what they paid.

And then, they still have the arena. Which is one of the top grossing venues in the world on its own.

Very irrational fear, I admit, but these owners haven't exactly been the greatest since they've come here. Given how poor fan relations have been, raising balconies to 38/45 dollars or whatever it is for next year, and the lower reporting of attendance - I'm a little paranoid.
its better to have the people in the seats for even $5 than it is to not have them in there at all. I think the old ownership knew that, not sure this one gets it yet

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11-03-2013, 06:00 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Yup. Which is why, I'm guessing, they're pushing the whole "We! Are! Jersey!" nonsense. Trying to develop a sense of pride to the state so people will relate the Devils to Jersey and only Jersey. I think it's a silly way to do it considering people from New York have shown a willingness to embrace teams from NJ in the past. No as high in numbers as the other way around, but still.

I still stand by my original point that the best way to gain fans here in 2013 is to market towards the young adult crowd. It's really the best shot they have to build a strong, solid fan base. I encourage them to build the Diablos fan section (possibly expand) and create a reputation here in NJ for a loud/crazy arena so at the very least we're marketing something.

What are we marketing? Marty? Marty isn't getting you casual fans. You want casual fans? College age kids looking for a good time or young adults looking to go a little crazy for a night? You create a loud, rowdy atmosphere. Create that reputation so people will say "Hey, I heard Devils games are fun. Those fans are loud and it's one giant party. Maybe we should go?"

Targeting families I think is silly at this point, in my opinion. You need your very young fan base to grow up and have families before you have enough support to do that.
The team used to use "Jersey's Team." Everyone loved that one. And people were complaining that they stopped using it (for Devils Army). Now they're going back to that theme and it's a problem.... Ok then...


And I'll say this again, as I've said it to you before. You don't want them to target families... but you want them to target people so that they can become fans and... wait for it... have families and bring them to games. Cool idea: instead of waiting for young people without disposable income to have families in a few years.... how about we try to bring in the people with disposable income that have the families now? That will help us try to draw fans now instead of waiting to draw fans another day when those potential fans could be busy spending time with the families at places that are friendly towards those with families!

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Old
11-03-2013, 06:02 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
its better to have the people in the seats for even $5 than it is to not have them in there at all. I think the old ownership knew that, not sure this one gets it yet
I wouldn't go that far, especially when it relates to your sth base over the longer-term...but it's certainly better to have the $80 seats filled for $25-30 early in the season when you have your known attendance duds.

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11-03-2013, 06:06 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Which ones? I still see a ton around. Especially youth ones? I feel like we see them often.

Maybe last year made it seem like there were a ton more because of the shortened season.

I think you have to question how low these tickets can actually go before management says "can we make a profit here in NJ at all?"

My biggest fear (and it's irrational) is that these owners are thinking of moving the Devils out of NJ. Tanking attendance, demonstrating that there's no support, moving it to a location that will make them money, and then flipping the team to a Canadian or something for double what they paid.

And then, they still have the arena. Which is one of the top grossing venues in the world on its own.

Very irrational fear, I admit, but these owners haven't exactly been the greatest since they've come here. Given how poor fan relations have been, raising balconies to 38/45 dollars or whatever it is for next year, and the lower reporting of attendance - I'm a little paranoid.
It's not as irrational a thought as you think. I have been really curious of their intentions since they bought the team. This team can't be profitable as it currently stands. The irony of it all is, ownership actually has deep enough pockets to absorb losses and split the team from the arena allowing a move. They would get the arena and some very valuable real estate with a foothold on a goldmine. That property with future development is worth a ton of money ...without the team.

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11-03-2013, 06:12 PM
  #183
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I like how they forget they also have a lease.

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11-03-2013, 06:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
Nobody said they were leaving.
Never speak for an entire populace in absolutes

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11-03-2013, 06:50 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
You want the Devils to target a segment that has little to no disposable income and disregard the one with the most to spend? Will never happen. Ever.
Some do, some don't. I think a young adult with a job, living with his/her parents, has more disposable income than a family of 4. I think when you try to identify "Devil's Fans" and you did a neat little line graph, the chunk of the results will be ages 18-30.

I think it's an interesting argument and since I don't have the facts to back it up I'll bow out. But I think you're dismissing the viability of marketing towards younger crowds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott04 View Post
The team used to use "Jersey's Team." Everyone loved that one. And people were complaining that they stopped using it (for Devils Army). Now they're going back to that theme and it's a problem.... Ok then...


And I'll say this again, as I've said it to you before. You don't want them to target families... but you want them to target people so that they can become fans and... wait for it... have families and bring them to games. Cool idea: instead of waiting for young people without disposable income to have families in a few years.... how about we try to bring in the people with disposable income that have the families now? That will help us try to draw fans now instead of waiting to draw fans another day when those potential fans could be busy spending time with the families at places that are friendly towards those with families!
Just to preface my post: I have no problem with you. I don't want you to get the impression that every post I make is intending to dismiss your argument, flame you, or anything. We just disagree often and I think that's fine. I have never commented on Jersey's Team being a problem or any of that until now. I quite frankly am apathetic about the whole Devil's army thing as well. So I don't know if you're speaking for me or others there.

To the second part of your argument: If you target people with families now you run into the problem of those families not having the income to take a family of 4 or 5 to games. Not only that, but I think there are more young adult Devil's fans than older Devil's fans. It's the nature of having a new fanbase established in the 80s. I think now is when you'll see the kids raised as Devil's fans old enough to afford games but young enough to where they don't have families.

So while in theory your argument works just as well as mine, i think practically you're over-estimating the amount of families that are Devil's fans here in Jersey. You figure that most stable families have heads of households in their early to late 40s right? Well subtract even 30 and you get to the founding of the Devils. A lot of those people might have already established loyalties to the Flyers or Rangers. With the young adults (20-30) you're practically right around the founding of the team. So it makes sense you'd have more fans there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
It's not as irrational a thought as you think. I have been really curious of their intentions since they bought the team. This team can't be profitable as it currently stands. The irony of it all is, ownership actually has deep enough pockets to absorb losses and split the team from the arena allowing a move. They would get the arena and some very valuable real estate with a foothold on a goldmine. That property with future development is worth a ton of money ...without the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv4Life View Post
I like how they forget they also have a lease.
Leases can be broken. If you have enough money, any lease can be broken.

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Old
11-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Just to preface my post: I have no problem with you. I don't want you to get the impression that every post I make is intending to dismiss your argument, flame you, or anything. We just disagree often and I think that's fine. I have never commented on Jersey's Team being a problem or any of that until now. I quite frankly am apathetic about the whole Devil's army thing as well. So I don't know if you're speaking for me or others there.

To the second part of your argument: If you target people with families now you run into the problem of those families not having the income to take a family of 4 or 5 to games. Not only that, but I think there are more young adult Devil's fans than older Devil's fans. It's the nature of having a new fanbase established in the 80s. I think now is when you'll see the kids raised as Devil's fans old enough to afford games but young enough to where they don't have families.

So while in theory your argument works just as well as mine, i think practically you're over-estimating the amount of families that are Devil's fans here in Jersey. You figure that most stable families have heads of households in their early to late 40s right? Well subtract even 30 and you get to the founding of the Devils. A lot of those people might have already established loyalties to the Flyers or Rangers. With the young adults (20-30) you're practically right around the founding of the team. So it makes sense you'd have more fans there.
Here is the biggest flaw of what you just typed up there: you are trying to bring in people that are already Devils fans. You completely ignore the notion of "making" fans. You won't do that targeting young adults like you are, unless its with gimmicks/specific promos (dollar hots dogs, college priced tickets, etc). Not season ticket purchasing type moves. Individual game type things.

You become an attractive venue for families, ones that are casual fans of either the sport, or sports in general, give it a shot. They buy some tickets, they have a good time, they buy more tickets. They keep coming back. You CREATE fans. And you're not creating 1 or 2 of them. You're creating 3 or 4 or 5 of them. Some young that will one day be adults. Some that are adults with plenty of spending power. You're completely missing the idea of having disposable income. The younger crowd (18-30 year olds) aren't necessarily as ready to have that. Entry level salaries, student loans, etc. You're targeting the wrong spot.

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Old
11-03-2013, 07:02 PM
  #187
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Why would they bother paying billions more to break a lease though? You're also forgetting about the lucrative TV contract, that you're not getting in Kansas City or even Quebec. What's the point in them wanting to move?

And why would anyone go to Newark on a consistent basis now without the team? 'Maybe' in 10-15 years you could sustain an arena there and get enough dates to fill it out without a major sports team but you're also competing with the new Brooklyn arena, the refurbished MSG and the Izod zombie that refuses to die.

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11-03-2013, 07:16 PM
  #188
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The two contracts in question:

MSG Contract - 20 year deal, until 2023-2024 season

Prudential Center Lease - 30 year deal, until 2037

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Old
11-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #189
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And while younger people have to pay off student loans, older ones have to pay off mortgages, support families and the like. Plus quite frankly the ones without families sometimes just plain have more free time to go to games.

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11-03-2013, 07:52 PM
  #190
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they got any families in the Diabolos section?

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11-03-2013, 07:59 PM
  #191
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The thread has derailed and gone way off the reservation from the OP. Good night folks.

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