HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Subban behind Boyle and Letang for Team Canada

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-02-2013, 01:49 PM
  #426
Tyson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 3,442
vCash: 500
In the 2007 draft there were 16 D picked ahead of PK. Hard to believe. If the 2007 draft was redone based on what we know now, PK could arguably go #1 overall. The kid is elite and if he is not chosen for the Olympic team it will say a lot about the leadership of hockey Canada

Tyson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 02:39 PM
  #427
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,125
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
In the 2007 draft there were 16 D picked ahead of PK. Hard to believe. If the 2007 draft was redone based on what we know now, PK could arguably go #1 overall. The kid is elite and if he is not chosen for the Olympic team it will say a lot about the leadership of hockey Canada
Kaner still goes first, Subby 2nd though.

Habsawce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 02:56 PM
  #428
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,563
vCash: 500
I think that's a fine article and says it all....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15203112/

Quote:
But when Therrien was asked if Subban should be on Team Canada, he said, “It’s not for me to say. I’m in charge of the Montreal Canadiens.”

On whether Subban is a world-class player he added: “Whether I see him that way or not, my opinion doesn’t change anything.”

Therrien's caution stands in contrast to the recent boosterism from hockey people such as Larry Robinson, David Poile and Lindy Ruff, each of whom put in a public word for their players.

When pressed on what he makes of the James Norris Memorial Trophy winner’s recent form – he has been held off the scoresheet in four in a row after a blazing start in which he scored 11 in his first seven – Therrien said: “[Subban] is a player who brings a lot of energy, he’s able to contribute goals and points offensively. We have a team concept in our organization, that we follow and that we believe in. It’s our team concept that will get us to the playoffs, and it’s our team concept that will allow to progress as a team.”

There’s a tendency in the overheated market that is Montreal to make irrational inferences, but at the very least, it doesn’t appear Subban’s team is mounting an aggressive lobbying effort to combat the perception he is a one-dimensional player.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:01 PM
  #429
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I think that's a fine article and says it all....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15203112/
He really does not want to give Subban a compliment.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:05 PM
  #430
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,367
vCash: 500
Interesting take on Subban:

Quote:
Myth #2 P.K. Subban can be a defensive liability


Building Block #1: Subban is the seventh-highest scoring defenseman in the NHL since the start of the 2010 season with 125 points, and the highest scoring defenseman since the start of the lockout-shortened season with 50 points. He’s truly elite offensively.

Offensive defensemen will naturally have the puck more often than they would otherwise (right?). Thus, they will naturally have more turnovers. The question is, can you create offense and prevent goals from filling your own net? Well from 2010-2013, Subban had been on the ice for 0.650 goals against/60 minutes of 5v5 time and on the ice for 56.9% of all even-strength goals scored. These are the six defensemen above him in points since 2010:

Erik Karlsson (OTT) – 0.853 goals against/60 minutes; 49.3% goals for
Shea Weber (NSH) – 0.686 goals against/60 minutes; 52.7% goals for
Keith Yandle (PHX) – 0.684 goals against/60 minutes; 54.9% goals for
Dustin Byfuglien (WPG) – 0.898 goals against/60 minutes; 50.3% goals for
Kris Letang (PIT) – 0.756 goals against/60 minutes; 59.1% goals for
Alex Pietrangelo (STL) – 0.658 goals against/60 minutes; 56.1% goals for

Oh yes, P.K. Subban has been on for fewer goals against per 60 minutes than all of his comparables including the man some believe to be the best defensive defenseman in the NHL, Shea Weber. The only defenseman to be on for more even-strength goals for is Kris Letang.

This isn’t a “first pairing” thing either; Subban played top pairing minutes the entire 2011-2012 season. If he was “a defensive liability”, he would have shown it that year. How bad was he? Subban was on the ice for nearly 60% of all goals for, is how “bad” he was. In other words, it’s arguable that while playing top pairing minutes Subban has played the best defensive hockey of his NHL career, and still managed 36 points as a 22-year-old defenseman.

Building Block #2: Subban has at times been one of Montréal’s best penalty killers.
In the 2010-2011 season, he was the third-most used defenseman on the penalty kill at nearly 2:30 per game for the Habs, a season that saw them have the seventh-best penalty kill.
In 2011-2012, he was the second-most used Habs defenseman on the penalty kill at about 2:30 per game, a season that saw them sport the league’s second-best penalty kill.
In the lockout-shortened season, Subban played a career-low 1:24 per game on the penalty kill. Last year, the Habs penalty kill plummeted to 23rd in the league after being 2nd and 7th the last two years.

There are obviously other factors in all this (Hal Gill, coaching changes), but it’s worth noting nonetheless. Of course Montréal’s penalty kill is excelling this year with Subban playing under a minute per game short-handed, which would seem to fly in the face of what I’m saying. I’ll hold reservations on how Montréal’s penalty kill will go this year until we get to the halfway mark of the season.

Building Block #3: Bias is a problem.

…Doesn’t mean P.K won’t make the Oly team, but, management concerns with high risk play still outweigh his offensive strengths.
— Darren Dreger (@DarrenDreger) October 31, 2013


I’m not going to really get into the race issue – let’s face it “black hockey player who plays with emotion” probably rubs a lot of the elder hockey bigots the wrong way, and I’m not implying in any way that this is what Mr. Dreger means – but I’m talking about bias of coaches.

This has been something that’s been touched on by others (I believe @FantasyDouche first brought it to my attention), but a bias can develop around certain mistakes:

Let’s say a coach *absolutely hates* when a defenseman pinches in at the blue line and doesn’t get the puck. Said defenseman is now caught up the ice, and a 2-on-1 has probably gone the other way. Despite maybe 30 positive defensive and offensive plays the defenseman may have made that night, that one pinch will stay stuck in the coach’s mind.

This is what I believe most people mean when they say he’s a defensive liability. He could make 30 solid plays in a game, but if he makes one bad pinch then it’s all for nothing. Of course that’s not really the case – making 30 solid plays grossly outweighs the downside of one bad defensive play that might stick out – but that’s the thought process of a coach. If he was really that bad defensively, why has he been on the ice for fewer goals than all the aforementioned elite defensemen?

Is he a defensive liability? I understand why a coach might think that. Is he really a defensive liability? Nah, it’s just bias.

http://www.fantasytrade411.com/2013/...ry-p-k-subban/

Warning, if you click on the link there's some god awful music that plays, that's why I copy pasted a large chunk of the article.

Dr Gonzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:07 PM
  #431
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He really does not want to give Subban a compliment.
In the end, since Team Canada has TONS of great players, probably enough so we'd be able to make like bobsleigh and have Canada 1 and Canada 2, with Canada 2 being able to beat Canada 1.....it's then all about politics. And you need all the help you can. Guys from the inside will talk for this or that player. Influential guys from the outside will also do the work.

PK Subban will need to be absolutely lights out to have a place in that team has he has NO help from his own very freakin coach. Would love to see who in the inside has some love for him to help him 'cause it's not coming from the organization....unless Bergevin, secretly, talks for him.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:07 PM
  #432
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Interesting take on Subban:




http://www.fantasytrade411.com/2013/...ry-p-k-subban/

Warning, if you click on the link there's some god awful music that plays, that's why I copy pasted a large chunk of the article.
You can pause the music. Mid-page to the right.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:10 PM
  #433
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
You give bridge contracts to guys who have to prove more (or want to prove more), unless you can get them long term for a really good deal.
Bridge contracts are a way to minimize risks for teams while also keeping the cap hit of your younger players lower for a bit longer.

You can use PK as an example all you want because after he got his bridge contract, he won the Norris.

PK wanted Doughty's kind of money and when he saw the Habs werent budging, it supposedly went down to 5m or so.

I'd rather sign PK (or any young guys) to bridge contracts and then see who really reserve the big contracts.

Its kinda odd to see people complain about teams being too generous with contracts lenght/money but when their favorite player's involved, all common sense should be tossed aside.

Kind of a double standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Now if Subban got that biggish long term deal (let's 5 or 6 years at 5 million) and Tinordi or Beaulieu or Gallagher or whoever want a long term deal at the end of their ELC, what is their argument? Subban was a top 25 guy and got paid as a top 25 guy; if Tinordi is maybe a top 100 guy, sure pay him like a top 100 guy long term. Works for me. If he's a top 100 guy, but thinks he could be a top 50 guy and wants to be paid as such, well, that's when you have to prove yourself.
Any agent, when being told "the bridge contract is the organization philosophy" would laugh at that GM and ask for a long term if there's a precedent. They can holdout like PK to get it also if needed.

Just check the Oilers to see where this leads.

Leave PK out of this for a minute. Forget you got a huge bias (as do several on this board) for PK and think of this situation from a management stand point. Any argument so far for PK are only when talking about PK, excluding any other things this involves. This isnt how it works. What they did last year for PK was gonna have an effect down the line. The reason they were able to give PK the bridge deal was due to what they had done in the past.

Thats the reason Oilers dont have that option anymore. They messed up in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Tinordi's agent won't be able to effectively use Subban as an example because Subban would have been paid his actual value, not his potential value. Bergevin would be consistent by only paying a player his current worth--that would have been the precedent he would have set by signing Subban long term at 5m. If you want to get paid what you're worth right now, cool with me. If you want to get paid more than you're worth because you have potential, prove it to me.
Since when do agents not use comparables on terms in the own team or accross the league?

Some agents will be using the big contracts the Oilers got (terms in the case of Tinordi in the example you're giving) while GMs looking for bridge deals will use Kadri/PK/others as an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Subban at 5 million would have been paying him his worth (he played two years as a number one guy, playing tough minutes and all situations), not his potential worth, so it wouldn't have set up a negative precedent.
Of course it wouldnt. You're telling me PK would've accepted a 2 years/5m deal? Of course no agent in the league would've used that as a base for future negociations (see Kadri as an example, but there are just tons of examples).

Thats not really serious. We all know the nature of sports is inflationnist. You give 2 years/3m to one guy, the next ask for 2 years/4m.

The pro sports are based on comparables and inflationnist contracts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
The bridge contract might still prove to be a good choice (if they sign him to an 8 year deal, they'll effectively have him locked up his entire prime)
That'd be the plan. 3+2+8=13. That covers alot of a players career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
but, given his value at the time, I don't see how signing him long term at his worth would have set a negative precedent for future contract negotiations with players coming off their ELCs.
When agents stop using comparables or salaries arent public, then you'll have a point. Until then, I think its pretty clear by now comparables exist and precedents are used as a base for future negociations. Thats the nature of the sports or any negociation. This is how it works in real life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Again, the key is the players worth at the time of the contract. Paying for a player's potential can burn you, yes, but if you're paying fair value, you won't have any problems.
Instead of giving the big contract right away when the only party taking a risk is the team, the bridge contract ensures the risk is more evenly split.

You want your big payday, show you're worth it for 2 years under the bridge deal. If it doesnt work out, the team isnt stuck with a Myers type deal.

Kinda odd to see irrationnal thinking like blaming the Habs for no giving PK a big contracts when people have been complaining for years the teams cant control themselves and give these big contracts too easily.

Cant have it both ways. Its obvious the judgement of many is clouded in this case because of the player involved.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #434
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,563
vCash: 500
Funny thing in this whole debate is that we, most Habs fans, have come to PK defense in this very main board against haters who just had no idea what they were talking about. And yet, some people in here protect Therrien who really....says approximately the same thing that those haters used to say. I,ve been going to bat every single ****in day telling those stupid haters that PK isn't a defensive liability. Does that mean that he never makes mistakes? Of course not. Yet, our "defensive" rocks in Diaz, Bouillon, Murray and Markov ALSO do tons of mistakes. And yet....Therrien do seem to agree with this main board....

I don't know who said that months ago about Therrien not liking Subban's at Antichambre and frankly, I totally laughed at that. But now....it's not that funny. Seems to me that Therrien's opinion didn't change one bit. And that's not normal. He goes from being totally on the outside, then totally in and still gets the same views out of PK? Was Therrien that much of a psychic? Or does he has himself some predetermined opinions that he has a tough time to overcome no matter how different a guy ends up being?

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #435
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
Bridge contracts are a way to minimize risks for teams while also keeping the cap hit of your younger players lower for a bit longer.

You can use PK as an example all you want because after he got his bridge contract, he won the Norris.

PK wanted Doughty's kind of money and when he saw the Habs werent budging, it supposedly went down to 5m or so.

I'd rather sign PK (or any young guys) to bridge contracts and then see who really reserve the big contracts.

Its kinda odd to see people complain about teams being too generous with contracts lenght/money but when their favorite player's involved, all common sense should be tossed aside.

Kind of a double standard.
Has nothing to do with "favourite player". Has everything to do with Norris trophy winner, Norris finalist for the next couple of years, and just one of the few great players we have. He should be everybody's favorite player as he is a cornerstone of this franchise. GM needs to recognize that. But clearly, they don't agree.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #436
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
I'd love to see some sources for subban wanting 'doughty' money.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #437
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
This is where I stopped reading. This is the most absurd statement that continues to be used. Just because a player is exempted from a bridge contract, this does not set any type of precedent. Subban is Subban and if any player agent walks into MBs office and says that his player deserves what Subban got, I would laugh that agent out the door.
It sure doesnt. Thats why PK wanted Doughty's kind of money/term initially My guess is: precedent & comparables.

To go around and say it doesnt exist just to help your argument cant be taken very seriously.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:20 PM
  #438
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I'd love to see some sources for subban wanting 'doughty' money.
Thats was what PK supposedly said himself at the end of the other year. Also, it was later reported in the medias by some other guys. Not digging for that (cant be bothered) but it was out there.

Whether it was falsely reported or that PK only wanted Karlsson deal (which was pretty much confirmed a while after) is irrelevant.

He wanted a contract comparable to either one of those 2. Whether it was 1 more year or 1 more M, its quite irrelevant at this point. It was in the same ballpark.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:23 PM
  #439
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Interesting take on Subban:
Thanks for the link. Interesting read indeed.

Doubt it would make a difference but those stats should to be shown to all the morons on the mainboard who always insist that Subban is a defensive liability in his own end.

sheed36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:24 PM
  #440
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Has nothing to do with "favourite player". Has everything to do with Norris trophy winner, Norris finalist for the next couple of years, and just one of the few great players we have. He should be everybody's favorite player as he is a cornerstone of this franchise. GM needs to recognize that. But clearly, they don't agree.
Because the Habs didnt gave in to PK's demands, they dont?

Why do you think there were lockouts in the past? Because GMs/owners have been too generous. The bridge contracts are simply a way to filter out who really deserve the big contracts and who doesnt.

How many teams saw Myers deal and tought it was smart? You telling me its a good deal?

Dont tell me PK's different.

Is Myers deal a good deal? You think the Sabres regret it? So, based on that, why take the risk when you can minimize it?

At this rate, might as well get rid of the GMs and let the agents decide what their clients are worth, then fax this directly to the NHL HQ.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:24 PM
  #441
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,023
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
It sure doesnt. Thats why PK wanted Doughty's kind of money/term initially My guess is: precedent & comparables.

To go around and say it doesnt exist just to help your argument cant be taken very seriously.
Oh so now other teams do it, so it will effect the Habs? Yes, Subban can compare himself to Doughty at equal points in their career, they have a similar learning and developing curve. Now name me how many hab players can say they are one of the best at their position and demand that kind of money. Subban was a #1 D on a team that was dead last in the east and yet his numbers weren't terrible as a 22 year old. No hab prospect on the current roster is or will be where Subban was at the end of their ELC.

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:25 PM
  #442
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
Thats was what PK supposedly said himself at the end of the other year. Also, it was later reported in the medias by some other guys. Not digging for that (cant be bothered) but it was out there.

Whether it was falsely reported or that PK only wanted Karlsson deal (which was pretty much confirmed a while after) is irrelevant.

He wanted a contract comparable to either one of those 2. Whether it was 1 more year or 1 more M, its quite irrelevant at this point. It was in the same ballpark.
You've got nothing here. All that was debunked ages ago. More credible sources came out after saying that the habs and subban weren't far apart on the money, it was the term that was the sticking point.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #443
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
You've got nothing here. All that was debunked ages ago. More credible sources came out after saying that the habs and subban weren't far apart on the money, it was the term that was the sticking point.
Sure, you said so so it must be true.

Anyway, as I said earlier, you guys need to look at this from a bigger point of view than just PK.

I love how you skipped everything else. Dont worry, I wouldnt say you're wrong there. I know better!

Yet, PK's situation has little to do with the overall picture. You keep focusing on the small picture while GMs focus on the bigger one

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:30 PM
  #444
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
Thats was what PK supposedly said himself at the end of the other year. Also, it was later reported in the medias by some other guys. Not digging for that (cant be bothered) but it was out there.

Whether it was falsely reported or that PK only wanted Karlsson deal (which was pretty much confirmed a while after) is irrelevant.

He wanted a contract comparable to either one of those 2. Whether it was 1 more year or 1 more M, its quite irrelevant at this point. It was in the same ballpark.
If you want me to believe that his agent, who is paid based on how much he lands his client, walked in with a first pitch of those guys as comparables for salary, that's fine. It's his job. And as the agent of one of the premier players in the league, he better keep a reputation of getting top dollars for top players. But there's only so strong of an implied link between the words "Subban" and "demand" that is going to be taken seriously by anyone. Just sayin'.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:33 PM
  #445
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Oh so now other teams do it, so it will effect the Habs?
Leafs used PK bridge deal as comparable when Kadri wanted a big contract. Had the Leafs give in to Kadri's demand, what do you think the next wave of young guys for the Leafs would do? They know the bridge deal ca be avoided for a longer term/big money from the Leafs based on past negocations.

Agents in the future would also use Kadri as a comparable, had he gotten a big contract.

You guys are too focused on the short term and PK. The league's bigger than him.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:35 PM
  #446
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you want me to believe that his agent, who is paid based on how much he lands his client, walked in with a first pitch of those guys as comparables for salary, that's fine. It's his job. And as the agent of one of the premier players in the league, he better keep a reputation of getting top dollars for top players. But there's only so strong of an implied link between the words "Subban" and "demand" that is going to be taken seriously by anyone. Just sayin'.
This isnt even relevant anyway. Whats relevant are the bridge deal, if they are good or not.

Based on history, its hard to argue they arent. You telling me you want the Habs to trade for Myers and be stuck with his contract?

I'm asking because I'm sure the Sabres would like to unload him. There must be a reason for that. You're saying the Habs were dumb to not take that risk. This makes no sense.

On the other hand, we got guys on this board whining about DD's deal. Double standard ftw!

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:38 PM
  #447
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,023
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
Leafs used PK bridge deal as comparable when Kadri wanted a big contract. Had the Leafs give in to Kadri's demand, what do you think the next wave of young guys for the Leafs would do? They know the bridge deal ca be avoided for a longer term/big money from the Leafs based on past negocations.

Agents in the future would also use Kadri as a comparable, had he gotten a big contract.

You guys are too focused on the short term and PK. The league's bigger than him.
Kadri has no leg to stand on! What do you not understand with negotiations? Kadri isn't going to tell his agent to walk in there and be submissive. You go in there guns blazing! 5 years 30 million. "But my client scored 45 points in 45 games in his first season!". The leafs management tell his agent that 1 season is not enough of a sample.

Demands and value have little to nothing to do with each other.

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:40 PM
  #448
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
In the end, since Team Canada has TONS of great players, probably enough so we'd be able to make like bobsleigh and have Canada 1 and Canada 2, with Canada 2 being able to beat Canada 1.....it's then all about politics. And you need all the help you can. Guys from the inside will talk for this or that player. Influential guys from the outside will also do the work.

PK Subban will need to be absolutely lights out to have a place in that team has he has NO help from his own very freakin coach. Would love to see who in the inside has some love for him to help him 'cause it's not coming from the organization....unless Bergevin, secretly, talks for him.
Agreed, he's not going to be on the team, habs fan better brace themselves. Unless the environment changes drastically in the coming weeks he won't even be able to play his way on the team. Thier minds are made up already, if his previous 3 years haven't changed opinions of him, nothing will.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 11-02-2013 at 03:46 PM.
habsfanatics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:45 PM
  #449
Camio
Registered User
 
Camio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Kadri has no leg to stand on! What do you not understand with negotiations? Kadri isn't going to tell his agent to walk in there and be submissive. You go in there guns blazing! 5 years 30 million. "But my client scored 45 points in 45 games in his first season!". The leafs management tell his agent that 1 season is not enough of a sample.

Demands and value have little to nothing to do with each other.
Bolded the funny part. I doubt I'm the least experienced in that department on the board, sorry to say.

When I read that "comparables of other teams/players have little to do with that"... seriously.

Precedents exists and are used in negociations. PK's irrelevant in this. It just so happen your favorite player didnt got what he/you guys wanted.

To say that everything else doesnt matter in negociations is laughable at best. We all know that, ever since NHL salaries were made public. Anyone having been a fan for a couple years should understand that by now, sorry to say.

Camio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #450
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,023
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camio View Post
This isnt even relevant anyway. Whats relevant are the bridge deal, if they are good or not.

Based on history, its hard to argue they arent. You telling me you want the Habs to trade for Myers and be stuck with his contract?

I'm asking because I'm sure the Sabres would like to unload him. There must be a reason for that. You're saying the Habs were dumb to not take that risk. This makes no sense.

On the other hand, we got guys on this board whining about DD's deal. Double standard ftw!
Risk vs reward, ever heard that? You have scouts, coaches, etc. and none of them saw PK Subban as a Norris trophy winner? Yes Buffalo made a huge mistake with Myers, but to compare them in terms of their one ice play is pathetic in your judgement.

Subban came in to the NHL in the playoffs and did quite an outstanding job defending Crosby. Years later he we saw him progress. At the end of his ELC, he was miles ahead of Myers. Buffalo didn't mitigate the risk properly, doesn't mean the habs have to be safe since Buffalo failed.

I saw Subban as a future Norris winner. In all my detailed explanations, I said he would win a Norris within 5 years of signing a 5 year deal and that giving him a long term deal would of been in everyones best interest. To think habs management missed that is something that I fear.

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.