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Jagr a Devil Part II: May be an Alien Edition

View Poll Results: How many points does Jagr get in 2014-15?
40-50 Pts 16 11.85%
50-60 Pts 58 42.96%
60-70 Pts 47 34.81%
70 + Pts 14 10.37%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-13-2013, 02:55 AM
  #76
Xegiie
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Remember when he was going to sign with Pittsburgh to get back to his roots and their rival Philadelphia offered him more money?

I love what Jagr's doing for the team, but it's pretty clear that if he plays next year, he'll play for the team that offers the most money.
no and no..
this theory about Jagr signing for highest bidder is comming from haters and is widely spread especially from pen fans..

1. he was offered way more money in russia

2. pens basicly offered him a minority role where he would basicly finish off his career. Jagr was talking about 3rd line no pp and 1,5 mill
he said he could read between lines what they offered him
He thought he wouldnt get enough space ect

3. In flyers he got offered very nice money, notice not most, 1st line minutes, PP time and Giroux as his center, i think it was Svoboda who told him about Giroux and how good he could be.

Now knowing Jagr and as you can yourself see his will to keep playing, (not just for money ...) how he enjoy the game he just simply didnt want accept a 3rd or even 4th line role.
In my opinion he basicly stated "I m not finished Mario, watch me"
despite he likes him, or at least thatss what he claims.

Hope this clear some clouds for you and you stop saying he signs for highest bidder simply...

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Old
11-13-2013, 04:20 AM
  #77
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I can't say for sure but I could have sworn I remember a quote from Jagr saying he went to Dallas becauss they offered him the most money. I was a Jagr fan before he came here so I wouldn't make that up. Unless I'm just remembering wrong. Anybody else remember something like this?

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11-13-2013, 04:30 AM
  #78
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i so want a devils jagr jersey but it just isn't right. it feels so good to finally be able to root for a player as amazing as jags


Last edited by RJK: 11-13-2013 at 05:14 AM.
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Old
11-13-2013, 04:40 AM
  #79
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i so want a devils jagr jersey but it just isn't right. it feels so good to finally be ably to root for a player as amazing as jags
I'm debating a Jagr jersey but it feels like its too soon.

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11-13-2013, 05:13 AM
  #80
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I'm debating a Jagr jersey but it feels like its too soon.
same

I wasn't big on the Jagr signing at the start but I'm so happy we have him now

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Old
11-13-2013, 05:13 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Johnyrocket View Post
I'm debating a Jagr jersey but it feels like its too soon.
i mean i don't think he'll be here next year def and maybe not by the deadline. if you wanted to honor jags right you'd have to rock a pens jersey. and that **** ain't happening. but i've always had puppy dog eyes for #68 from across the divisional dance floor. dat work ethic

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11-13-2013, 07:59 AM
  #82
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i mean i don't think he'll be here next year def and maybe not by the deadline. if you wanted to honor jags right you'd have to rock a pens jersey. and that **** ain't happening. but i've always had puppy dog eyes for #68 from across the divisional dance floor. dat work ethic
So do you think this Devils run is an aberration?

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11-13-2013, 10:49 AM
  #83
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11-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NJDevils7 View Post
I can't say for sure but I could have sworn I remember a quote from Jagr saying he went to Dallas becauss they offered him the most money. I was a Jagr fan before he came here so I wouldn't make that up. Unless I'm just remembering wrong. Anybody else remember something like this?
I took my time and tried google for a while and i can not find any quote like that from Jagr.
This is what fans say and even some writers.

again Jagr got alongside money, the number one role next to Benn and Eriksson.. do you remember how Flyers behave to Jagr after the season? They wanted Parise and few other players before they started discuss with him, which gave him the message and impuls to look somewhere else.
No matter how much he enjoyed being a flyer with Giroux and others, he has his pride and ego..
Hell who wouldn't in Jagr's skin??

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11-13-2013, 11:22 AM
  #85
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Is there a highly skilled player in the league who fits the devils style better then Jagr?

But I would be very careful in not burning him out. Have to watch his minutes, and I think a day off here an there would be good as well.
Parise

But yeah hopefully they'll be able to manage his minutes a little bit, the way Pete did in the Nashville blowout (a third game in four nights) where Jagr played >15 minutes. Problem is we freaking NEED Jagr, especially without Elias - and we play the majority of close games - so they can't exactly baby him.

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I wouldn't go that far. Kovy pre-injury was an animal playing some of the most minutes in the NHL. He was superhuman given the way DeBoer rode him.
He wasn't doing anything with the superhuman minutes last year, especially at even strength. He had one and a half great seasons as a Devil (also benefiting from Parise in '11-12), and one and a half poor seasons so in effect he was pretty average on the whole, certainly not what he was before coming here.

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Old
11-13-2013, 03:04 PM
  #86
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I can only pray we get JJ68 for another year. Maybe patty can convince him to stay for a bit longer...

This guy does it all. What a great player even at 41. It has been a great watching him so far...

I hope jagr is resigned because he has been a complete beast .

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Old
11-13-2013, 05:39 PM
  #87
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I am surprised, how he enhanced his skating during the offseason. He seems to be even faster than in his Rangers era.

However I have to disagree with livewell68, that Jagr will be a PPG player this year. I remember words of Jagr's physiotherapist Kolar, who said, that at this age is impossible to be in the top form for the longer period of time. He can completely dominate a few games, but there will be matches, where his body will not work and he will be slow. Also besides his 2+2 in the first game of last season, Jagr's point limit seems to be 2 and its simply not enough for PPG pace, because there will be lots of games, where Jagr gets no points.

If I could try to predict, I think, he is able to have 60-70 points, but only if he remains healthy and coach will continue to let him play around 18 minutes.

Another thing I have to say is, that I am pleasantly suprised, how much Jagr improved his defense. It seems, that playing next to Bergeron helped him a lot. To call him two-way player seems to be a little bit overstated, but Boston fans used to say, that Jagr was defensive liability (I did not agree with them even in the last season) and he definitely is not defensive liability this season. In fact he is better ES player than PP player now. I dont understand why he does not use his deadly one-timers any more, but I suppose, it could be because of his shoulder injury from Rangers-Devils play-off series. Its a shame, because he became 20-goal player instead of 50, he used to be before.

In any case, Devils style of hockey seems to be like tailored for him. He is one of the best corner/board players in the history of this game and in the Deboer's system every attack ends in the corner. Also there are just a few fast players in the team, which makes Jagr to be average skater . I would be thrilled if there is a possibility that Jagr is signed for next year.


Last edited by Wounded: 11-13-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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11-13-2013, 08:36 PM
  #88
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I am surprised, how he enhanced his skating during the offseason. He seems to be even faster than in his Rangers era.

However I have to disagree with livewell68, that Jagr will be a PPG player this year. I remember words of Jagr's physiotherapist Kolar, who said, that at this age is impossible to be in the top form for the longer period of time. He can completely dominate a few games, but there will be matches, where his body will not work and he will be slow. Also besides his 2+2 in the first game of last season, Jagr's point limit seems to be 2 and its simply not enough for PPG pace, because there will be lots of games, where Jagr gets no points.

If I could try to predict, I think, he is able to have 60-70 points, but only if he remains healthy and coach will continue to let him play around 18 minutes.

Another thing I have to say is, that I am pleasantly suprised, how much Jagr improved his defense. It seems, that playing next to Bergeron helped him a lot. To call him two-way player seems to be a little bit overstated, but Boston fans used to say, that Jagr was defensive liability (I did not agree with them even in the last season) and he definitely is not defensive liability this season. In fact he is better ES player than PP player now. I dont understand why he does not use his deadly one-timers any more, but I suppose, it could be because of his shoulder injury from Rangers-Devils play-off series. Its a shame, because he became 20-goal player instead of 50, he used to be before.

In any case, Devils style of hockey seems to be like tailored for him. He is one of the best corner/board players in the history of this game and in the Deboer's system every attack ends in the corner. Also there are just a few fast players in the team, which makes Jagr to be average skater . I would be thrilled if there is a possibility that Jagr is signed for next year.
Even in games where he didn't pick up any points (the back-to-back shutout loses and the Leafs game, he was still flat out dominant). Jagr has been "dominant" for the last 10 games or so and since he scored that breakaway goal in the Tampa game, he's been getting better and better. As for that 2+2 game he had last season with Dallas, he didn't look half as good as he has so far with the Devils, in fact after that game he joked around about it "don't get used to it, you might not see many of these games this season". He was right, it was the only 4 Pts game of his season and he had I believe he had only one other 3 Pts game.

The last 2 games alone, he could have easily had 8 points if for instance Ryder and Zubrus finished on the "great set ups" he gave them. The points will start coming as his teammates and linemates develop chemistry with him and gain confidence for themselves and get better. The offense for the whole team will come and since Jagr has been the driving force of that offense, his numbers will increase. I would think being as consistent as he's been is more impressive than if his 14 Pts had come from a couple of 3 Pts games and then him being scoreless in a bunch of other games, what that tells me is that he still has the ability to not just "dominate a few games" but dominate in general.

You have to look at Jagr's current numbers in the grander scheme of things to really see how dominant and consistent he's been, the Devils overall haven't scored that many goals, Jagr missed all of the preseason and missed most of training camp, was awful in the first 2 games, was being moved around on the lines quite a bit in that first 7 games stretch or so and since then, with him playing on some sort of consistent line, he's been creating chances and getting points.

As for you observing that Jagr's been faster this season than he was even in New York, that is true. It was his skating that was keeping him from really dominating since coming back from the KHL. One thing I want to point out about "stamina and fitness" that points to him being able to sustain this pace and even get PPG is that fact that for the first time since his stint in Russia, Jagr is playing big minutes and not looking tired. The last 2 seasons, when Jagr would play extended shifts, he would look tired, would be hunching over grasping for breath if for instance the team iced the puck and he had to remain on the ice and he would usually take himself off the ice despite his linemates still being on (Giroux would play 1-1.5 full minutes per shift, while Jagr would be tired after 40 seconds), this season, he wants to play the minutes, he has been staying on the ice longer during his shifts and I have yet to see him hunch over trying to catch his breath. He's been so good, that even late in games when his team is trying to protect a 1-2 goals leads and the opposing team has pulled their goalie, you see Jagr being on the ice. This tells me two things, DeBoer recognizes how well Jagr has been playing and trusts him to be out in those key situations and that Jagr himself has enough confidence in himself to ask the coach to give him that chance. Jagr is a smart player, if he knew he would be a liability by being on the ice for extended periods of time and late in games, he wouldn't be on the ice. Take the shootout as an example of this.

Jagr took 4 shots against Lundqvist who seems to have his number since Jagr returned from Russia (playing on his team might have given Lundqvist the upper hand in understanding his tendencies) so it seems like even the shooting chances are going up (he hasn't taken 200 + shots or hasn't been on pace to take 200 + shots since his New York days), if his numbers are around the 3-4 shots per game perimeter then that would be another indicator of him being a dominant player and being able to sustain this pace for an extended period of time . The lack of shooting might have been my only criticism I might have had of him earlier on, but he's already admitted that twice in the last 2 post-game interviews and said he "has to be hungrier around the net and be more cognoscente of his shot count and take more shots; of course Jagr clearly still has one heck of a shot and contrary to what you said, because he has more confidence right now, you will start seeing him shoot more. Jagr right now (because he is easily the team's best playmaker) is trying to be set-up man on the powerplay but that will change once Elias gets back. I won't be surprised if Jagr picks up about 6-7 powerplay goals by the time the season's done.

In continuing with the powerplay theme, the fact that Jagr has been so dominant 5-on-5 means that he this isn't just an early season hot streak. Being an effective 5-on-5 player requires being a good skater, and dominating at 5-on-5 means you're an above average skater. He's +6 on the season (leads the team easily there too). Most fans thought that Jagr would pick up some points on the powerplay because "he still has the hands, the vision" but no one anticipated him scoring so effectively when both teams have the same amount of players on the ice since they felt that he had lost quite a few steps.

Last game against the Rangers, I noticed a passion and edge he has lacked since coming back from the KHL. Yes he took 2 penalties but right after those 2 penalties, he created his 2 best chances of the game. The Philly, Dallas and Boston version of Jagr didn't have the confidence to try and go on those breakaways and rushes the way he did against New York, he has that now.

I am almost feeling a PPG season as long as he remains healthy. His shooting numbers will go up and as they do, his goal scoring will go back, and as that does, opposing teams will continue to respect him, covering him more and then giving more space for his teammates to get open and Jagr (with his amazing vision and hands) will find them. It's a matter of time before Zubrus, Ryder, Gelinas, Zajac and Elias (when he gets back) start converting those Jagr passes to goals.


Last edited by livewell68: 11-14-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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Old
11-14-2013, 11:01 AM
  #89
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wow.. thats a long read
but i have to disagree in 1 point and thats Jagr not being that good as flyer.
Jagr was on PPG pace till he got the groin injury, which he rushed back and got injured again .. he was hardly moving since then till the next season. and i mean really slowly skating.
Before that injury he even scored 2 break away goals in 1 game and didnt score on 3rd one.. IF there wasnt the injury Jagr would have had PPG or even more, with all the salutes and laughs im more than sure of that
Im still a little mad flyers let him go, or made him go, pick one. Tho im sure sometimes they do regret too, Hartnell-G-Jagr line was pure gold

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11-14-2013, 07:57 PM
  #90
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wow.. thats a long read
but i have to disagree in 1 point and thats Jagr not being that good as flyer.
Jagr was on PPG pace till he got the groin injury, which he rushed back and got injured again .. he was hardly moving since then till the next season. and i mean really slowly skating.
Before that injury he even scored 2 break away goals in 1 game and didnt score on 3rd one.. IF there wasnt the injury Jagr would have had PPG or even more, with all the salutes and laughs im more than sure of that
Im still a little mad flyers let him go, or made him go, pick one. Tho im sure sometimes they do regret too, Hartnell-G-Jagr line was pure gold
Jagr was "good" as a Flyer, especially in the first half of the season but he was never dominant that season. He was very good at cycling and what not but Giroux and Hartnell were really helping him. It did seem like though that Giroux was the best player on that team and Jagr wasn't playing with the confidence he has this year. Jagr is playing so well, I would only take a handful of players before him this season and those are Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Crosby, Tavares and Stamkos when he was healthy. Jagr has been that good. Being near a PPG player doesn't always mean you are dominant, it can also mean you are good but have great offensive support which is what he had with the Flyers.

The Flyers when they had a powerplay, would run it though Giroux, not Jagr, this year the powerplay as most of the offensive play runs through Jagr.

That is the biggest difference. Jagr was also slower and less fit in 2011-12. In my 20 some odd years of watching Jagr, I never saw him hunched over, looking tired and trying to catch his breath during extended shifts until I saw him with the Flyers. I remember when analysts used to say, "Jagr still dominates but when he used to do it for 1-2 minutes at a time, now he does it for 30-40 seconds shifts." He looked tired at times too with the Stars and Bruins. He hasn't looked like that at all this season, in fact he has looked stronger in 3rd periods and late in games.

I guess that weight he lost has really helped him with his skating and stamina level.

One more point I want to bring up is his rest and recovery time. Since coming back from the KHL, Jagr had become known for having those late night practices right after games; both the Flyers and Stars had given him keys to their skating arenas and training facilities while the Devils did not offer him that this season. We have yet to hear about those late night training sessions this year which might be a good thing. At his age, the biggest thing is the fact that the body doesn't recover as quickly and any little bump, bruise or injury can become a long term lingering problem. It just might be that the fact that he's resting a bit more is also helping him stay fresher in games.


Last edited by livewell68: 11-14-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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11-14-2013, 08:05 PM
  #91
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It's hard to criticize Jagr for anything anymore. He's pretty much earned the right to do whatever he wants.

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11-15-2013, 09:33 AM
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What? No midnight Jagr training sessions?

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11-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  #93
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What? No midnight Jagr training sessions?
Lou wouldn't give him keys. Said he could get the ice whenever he needed though.

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11-15-2013, 11:48 AM
  #94
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My friend had a gm at the practice rink about a month ago that was delayed an hour bc Jagr was on the rink

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11-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #95
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2 MORE GOALS FOR 'DA BEAST!


688(I think)....

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11-16-2013, 10:16 PM
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A plus 4 today. Not bad!

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11-16-2013, 10:17 PM
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2 MORE GOALS FOR 'DA BEAST!


688(I think)....
Would be cool to see 700 this year.

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11-16-2013, 10:37 PM
  #98
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Would be cool to see 700 this year.
He'll get it.

I think the best is yet to come from Jagr.

Pretty much most of his points have come at evenstrength (which says a lot about a player's ability) and then consider he's 41 and it's just amazing.

Once the powerplay starts to click( I still think there is potential there as Elias has looked way off in his last 2 games back and once he gets going again, he will help the PP tremendously) Jagr's numbers will get even better.

Call me crazy but I really think Jagr will score 30 goals this season, he's on pace for 29 goals as it is right now.

I predict 35 goals and 85-90 Pts from him.

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11-17-2013, 08:21 AM
  #99
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He'll get it.

I think the best is yet to come from Jagr.

Pretty much most of his points have come at evenstrength (which says a lot about a player's ability) and then consider he's 41 and it's just amazing.

Once the powerplay starts to click( I still think there is potential there as Elias has looked way off in his last 2 games back and once he gets going again, he will help the PP tremendously) Jagr's numbers will get even better.

Call me crazy but I really think Jagr will score 30 goals this season, he's on pace for 29 goals as it is right now.

I predict 35 goals and 85-90 Pts from him.
I predict 21 goals and 67 points.

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11-17-2013, 08:45 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
He'll get it.

I think the best is yet to come from Jagr.

Pretty much most of his points have come at evenstrength (which says a lot about a player's ability) and then consider he's 41 and it's just amazing.

Once the powerplay starts to click( I still think there is potential there as Elias has looked way off in his last 2 games back and once he gets going again, he will help the PP tremendously) Jagr's numbers will get even better.

Call me crazy but I really think Jagr will score 30 goals this season, he's on pace for 29 goals as it is right now.

I predict 35 goals and 85-90
Pts from him.
Ok livewell, you asked for it. Your predictions are very crazy. I am big Jagr fan but 85+ points? You have definetely very deep knowledge of Jagr and I am sure you would be able to run Jags museum after he stops playing (it seems that you have to wait till his 50s.) but your predictions are always the very best case scenario.

I would be very happy with 60+ points which would be great result for 41 years old player even if his name is Jagr. Much more important thing is that Jagr is having fun out there and that he thinks that Devils can play better.

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