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Emelin extended for 4 years (4.1 Million per)

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Old
11-01-2013, 10:27 AM
  #701
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Has anyone looked into this?
I remember Vincent Damphousse saying that it was rarely a huge concern for players. Yes income tax is a little higher here, but Montreal is a very affordable city.

Damphousse also played in California and he was saying that it wasn't much different overall.

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11-01-2013, 10:27 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Many talks about his defense but we must not forget that Emelin was on a pace of 26 ESP last season.
How many d-men scored 26 ESP since 2005?
There are barely 15 d-men who scored 26 ES points per season.

He did score same number of points 5 on 5 as PK!
Ah yes, the Luke Schenn \ McDonagh argument. But seriously, I would have tears of joy if he were used on the powerplay instead of Bouillon.

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11-01-2013, 10:28 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Bergy doesn't seem to negotiate from past experience. He seems to make an offer and that's basically it. I can guarantee you there were no serious negotiations with this deal.
It's a rich deal, period. I'm at people rationalizing it. Hopefully I don't see you crying about the deal in a couple years.
Come on, what are you even talking about?

Next time your in a contract negotiation, stream it live for us so we can be in the know like yourself.

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11-01-2013, 10:28 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
''Sure, or you might be crawling back to open negotiations because your client is struggling. I do not like dishonest negotiations, I have the power to sit your client out for the whole season, or I'll trade him and he might struggle moving forward. I would advise you to come in with a more honest and fair mindset next time we speak. In any event, thank you for showing me your whole hand.''
That really has a win-win negotiation tone to it .

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11-01-2013, 10:31 AM
  #705
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I'm curious, is Emelin the first player to reach a 4M cap hit contract after 105 games?
I don't recall someone getting into this much money this fast into their NHL careers.

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11-01-2013, 10:32 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
not always.
Go look at what TSN/RDS etc guys said when Ville Leino was signed, Jeff finger etc, extreme cases, but its not like they said "ohh that is fair". They ripped the deal to shreds.

Point being, personally, i have more stock in my own personal opinion and those of paid analysts than attention starved internet critics.

When Emelin is back to 100%, and the roster sets itself, you will be able to fairly judge the deal.

But calling it an overpayment or steal is premature. Its fair at this point.
They thought the DD signing was a good one when anyone with a brain who watched his game exclusively knew it was bad. They thought the Clarkson contract was high but needed.

A lot of these "analysts" have no idea what they're talking about.

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11-01-2013, 10:33 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm curious, is Emelin the first player to reach a 4M cap hit contract after 105 games?
I don't recall someone getting into this much money this fast into their NHL careers.
Apparently it happens all the time and we should be lucky that Emelin agree to the deal because we got a bargain!

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11-01-2013, 10:34 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
I remember Vincent Damphousse saying that it was rarely a huge concern for players. Yes income tax is a little higher here, but Montreal is a very affordable city.

Damphousse also played in California and he was saying that it wasn't much different overall.
Provincial income tax rates in 2013.

Quebec:25.75% in the highest tier.
Ontario:13.16% in the highest tier.

Marginal tax rate in California 2012-2013 is 10.3% in the highest tier.

That is a huge difference when you are talking millions of dollars.

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11-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
They thought the DD signing was a good one when anyone with a brain who watched his game exclusively knew it was bad. They thought the Clarkson contract was high but needed.

A lot of these "analysts" have no idea what they're talking about.
I think TSN has an opening. You should apply. Your hockey knowledge has to be shared with the world since you clearly know more than us, the GM and every analyst out there.

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11-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Provincial income tax rates in 2013.

Quebec:25.75% in the highest tier.
Ontario:13.16% in the highest tier.

Marginal tax rate in California 2012-2013 is 10.3% in the highest tier.

That is a huge difference when you are talking millions of dollars.
Get a good accountant and you're fine.

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11-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #711
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Not a big fan of this contract. Emelin needed to prove me for another FULL season that he can be that good. He doesn't have much games under his belt and 4 years is lenghty. DD's contract should be a lesson for this organization. Why sign players for more then 3-4 years? We are in the cap era, if that player starts struggling then you are stuck you have to buy him out. Thought we learnt from the Gomez thing. Emelin at 3m for 2 years would be more reasonable.

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11-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
I think TSN has an opening. You should apply. Your hockey knowledge has to be shared with the world since you clearly know more than us, the GM and every analyst out there.
Haha

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11-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
That really has a win-win negotiation tone to it .
Win-win? You're coming in telling me that the player who hasn't played in 7 months, who's coming back from a very serious injury (one that has affected many players coming back from it), who's just starting to practice with his teammates, who hasn't had any contact yet, that has 105 NHL games of experience, needs a new contract worth a 100% increase right now or he walks to free agency, and then you're trying to make the GM into a bad guy because he wants to wait to see how he handles contact?? Yea, who's being the unreasonable one here.

I would have had no problem with an extension right away, but both sides have to give in. I don't see how Emelin could have been asking for more than what he got. Really, what was the negotiation?? He asked for 5M?? 5 years? What?
If he wanted security right away, then it should have been on a short term deal. If all was well then we could have opened talks again as soon as the summer started on extending the deal.

4y at 4.1M makes no sense considering the timing. Really, it doesn't, and I have to wonder just how much negotiations took place. It's another contract that raises doubts about Bergevin's negotiating skills. Outside MaxPac's contract, I don't like the deals he's signed players to.

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11-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Ah yes, the Luke Schenn \ McDonagh argument. But seriously, I would have tears of joy if he were used on the powerplay instead of Bouillon.
Luke is 23 (far from UFA) and is making 3.6M.

McDonagh is 24 and signed at 4.7M.
But McDonagh is better in d-men than Emelin.

Emelin could certainly play on the second PP wave.

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11-01-2013, 10:41 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
I think TSN has an opening. You should apply. Your hockey knowledge has to be shared with the world since you clearly know more than us, the GM and every analyst out there.
Is this not a messageboard where we all share our opinions and discuss the Habs? I don't claim to know more than all analysts but analysts can be wrong...and they're wrong a lot. I didn't need an analyst to teell me the Briere signing was bad or that Gorges is a bottom pairing dman.

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11-01-2013, 10:44 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Not a big fan of this contract. Emelin needed to prove me for another FULL season that he can be that good. He doesn't have much games under his belt and 4 years is lenghty. DD's contract should be a lesson for this organization. Why sign players for more then 3-4 years? We are in the cap era, if that player starts struggling then you are stuck you have to buy him out. Thought we learnt from the Gomez thing. Emelin at 3m for 2 years would be more reasonable.
He was UFA at the end of the season. He would've been signed as a UFA guaranteed.

How do you keep your young talent happy and under contract? Yes, there is a risk reward element but do you think signing Max Pac, or Galchenyuk or Gallagher or PK is a bad thing?

We didn't sign Gomez, we traded for him with that beauty contract.

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11-01-2013, 10:48 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Some say that it costs Montreal 20-25% more than most other markets, on account of high local income tax.
This would be true using highest marginal tax rates however it can be offset using good tax planning . I read an article about this a while back and long story short your tax rate becomes a blended rate based on where you earn your money and where you declare residency. This is why you will find many athletes declaring residency in homes in low tax jurisdictions in the US because it allows them to file their taxes there . It's more complicated than this but there are legal ways to ease the tax pain.

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11-01-2013, 10:48 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Get a good accountant and you're fine.
Can get a good accountant in California and be better.

Keep in mind California has the 2nd highest tax rate in the US. The other states are all less then that aside from Oregon and who the hell wants to live in Oregon anyways?

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11-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #719
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Lafleurs Guy, I agree with ya.

There has to be more to this story for MB to have expedited the signing . If not, MB is a goof ball.
What expedited the signing is probably Emelin working his bag off and being 3-4 weeks ahead of the "early to mid December" return timeframe. Once Emelin is back and playing at last year's level, then his price probably goes up.

Some people here talk out of both sides of your mouth...you want guys signed while their cost is low but at the same time you want the player to finish the year so he can prove he is healthy but then he has the UFA option only a few months away...you can't have it both ways. The coser July 1st gets, the higher Emelin's price goes. With recent UFA markets a guy like that at 27, plus with a KHL element also involved, he EASILY gets 4.5 mil cap hit over 5-6 years if not 4.75-5 mil.

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11-01-2013, 10:51 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
Precisely, this contract rocks and so does Emelin. I'm finding more and more that people on this site don't really know much about hockey, ESPECIALLY the business side of it. I don't pretend to be the second coming of Pollack, but geez, do some people actually think he was gonna sign for 3m or less?? You talking about a top 4 D on most teams, played for his international team, after Kronwall probably the best open ice hitter in hockey and entering the prime of his career......and believe me his knee is fine or Bergevin and his team would not have signed him this long. You gotta think that somehow, they know stuff that we don't know. Love the signing, love the guy and love the HABS......except Desharnais of course....
Hope this contract works out better than the Desharnais, Briere, Moen Bergevin signed

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11-01-2013, 10:53 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Luke is 23 (far from UFA) and is making 3.6M.

McDonagh is 24 and signed at 4.7M.
But McDonagh is better in d-men than Emelin.

Emelin could certainly play on the second PP wave.
I was talking about the ES points that somehow mean that with PP time he will turn into a legit 2-way 40+ point scoring defenseman. That's what I've been hearing yet n'either of those guys will ever develop an offensive game. N'either will Emelin, but he is still a better option than most of our defense in that regard.

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11-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
What expedited the signing is probably Emelin working his bag off and being 3-4 weeks ahead of the "early to mid December" return timeframe. Once Emelin is back and playing at last year's level, then his price probably goes up.

Some people here talk out of both sides of your mouth...you want guys signed while their cost is low but at the same time you want the player to finish the year so he can prove he is healthy but then he has the UFA option only a few months away...you can't have it both ways. The coser July 1st gets, the higher Emelin's price goes. With recent UFA markets a guy like that at 27, plus with a KHL element also involved, he EASILY gets 4.5 mil cap hit over 5-6 years if not 4.75-5 mil.

Gainey waited to the end of season to negotiate , he lost players to free agency and people griped.

Bergevin goes in early signs a player when conditions are favourable and people gripe.

There must be a negotiating sweet spot that only our resident gurus know about.

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11-01-2013, 11:14 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I was talking about the ES points that somehow mean that with PP time he will turn into a legit 2-way 40+ point scoring defenseman. That's what I've been hearing yet n'either of those guys will ever develop an offensive game. N'either will Emelin, but he is still a better option than most of our defense in that regard.
I dont think this is true... If you look at KHL highlights, he is a really good passer and never had a chance to play the PP in Montreal. Plus McDonagh is playing on the first PP in NY as we speak.

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11-01-2013, 11:22 AM
  #724
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I dont think this is true... If you look at KHL highlights, he is a really good passer and never had a chance to play the PP in Montreal. Plus McDonagh is playing on the first PP in NY as we speak.
I would love to be wrong, and for him to become a reliable presence offensively btw, but he will still be, at best, our 4th best offensive d-man with Diaz, Subban, Markov and eventually Beaulieu ahead so he might as well focus more on his defensive game tbh.

And about McDonagh, I am very aware he has been given PP time, yet most NYR fans are calling for him to be set aside during man advantages. Right now he's on pace for 30ish points which is not bad, but that's as far as his contribution will go.

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11-01-2013, 11:28 AM
  #725
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Habs re-sign Emelin, but who's next?

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/11/...but-whos-next/

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