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Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

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11-02-2013, 10:00 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
....



The majority of fans aren't as hardcore as you and me, they want their soundbyte about the stars, they don't want facts about how the 4th line guys lost the game or the 3rd pairing dman is getting ice time.
No the media want their soundbytes, and why in the world would therrien cater to fans and media, his job is to coach a team to success, nothing more.

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11-02-2013, 10:14 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
....



The majority of fans aren't as hardcore as you and me, they want their soundbyte about the stars, they don't want facts about how the 4th line guys lost the game or the 3rd pairing dman is getting ice time.
Question isn't: Why does Therrien talks more about PK. It's why is he the way he is towards him compared to others. He is "vocal" as he has no problems pointing that or this mistake and rarely the great moments. When the other players fits in the team concept.

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11-02-2013, 10:17 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by MtlSportsFan View Post
There is a little bit of truth mixed with a whole lot of BS in most posts and articles written by the media. I don't wholly agree with how PK is treated by the Habs brass and coaches, sometimes he is singled out and I bet that a very small reason has to do with race....but PK makes it very easy to be singled out because he stands out. I am not talking about his skin but his style of play.

I just think the management would like to see a toned down PK. According to Brian Wilde he is doing that in the dressing room which makes his job harder. Personally I hate the way players are coached on how to speak to the media, I want to hear what Joe Thornton would do if he scored 4 goals !!!

IMO, PK should tone down on-ice antics (I HATE flamboyout goald celebrations by anyone) and stay himself in the dressing room.

Also, I have been having many bad feelings that the habs are going to try and trade PK for Claude Giroux. It never would have been possible before the start of last season...but this year.
I thought I was the only one thinking this.

I'm bracing for it. I actually could see this happening and it would be a horrible move by us. Total speculation but I can see it...

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11-02-2013, 10:19 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
I actually agreed with you that the triple-low fives were harmless. The likely scenario whether right or wrong is that they knew it was causing some fuss (even though it wasn't warranted) and they decided that even though its not a big deal, it would be pretty easy to simply ask PK and Price not to do it and to have the whole team be involved in saluting the fans. Now, that may have been a bad decision, I don't know. But I really don't think Therrien wants the fans not to cheer for PK. Cmon Whitesnake, you are a lot smarter than that.
In all the posts we made, we come out with tons of things, and exaggerate a little bit. So, of course, I didn't have to point out that I don't know Therrien, that I know somebody who knows somebody who know Therrien or anything else....I don't know everybody. Closest thing I knew from the Habs management is that I talked to Timmins 3 times....that's how much I "know" the Habs management....Yet, you do have to wonder why is Subban treated differently and while everybody needs their own way of being "teached"....I just don't believe that's a great way of doing it. It's not like Therrien has proven he's an incredible coach and a great mentor. But he's a NHL coach. So we'll see how that ends.....but I'm not convinced it's the right approach. Far from it.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 11-02-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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11-02-2013, 10:24 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.
I think this is a first that I agree with you. For those that believe he is being treated like others probably never felt a prejudice like Subban is suffering from. Molson better wake up and tell his management to let Subban be himself, or risk losing him.

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11-02-2013, 10:29 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The bottom line is PK is being singled out on a consistent basis.

If his name was Peter Smith, and he was white, and everything else was the same, he would not be getting treated this badly.
Further to this:

If his name was Pierre Laplante what would RDS say about him? Would he have received a bigger contract?

Not sure how much skin colour has to do with it. But if he was a Quebecois he'd be hyped to no end. That much I'm absolutely sure of.

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11-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #282
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From the main board, 13:35 into the vid. Not a fan of Tortorella, but he goes to bat for his players. Imagine if somebody, anybody, in the Habs organization stood up for Subban like that, a guy who's faced unwarranted criticism since he set foot in the NHL.

Unfortunately, Therrien is one of those neanderthals Torts is talking about. Instead, the biggest compliment he gets from the coach is 'he's matured a lot over the past year'. Which, at the end of the day, is management's way of patting themselves on the back.

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11-02-2013, 10:49 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post


From the main board, 13:35 into the vid. Not a fan of Tortorella, but he goes to bat for his players. Imagine if somebody, anybody, in the Habs organization stood up for Subban like that, a guy who's faced unwarranted criticism since he set foot in the NHL.

Unfortunately, Therrien is one of those neanderthals Torts is talking about. Instead, the biggest compliment he gets from the coach is 'he's matured a lot over the past year'. Which, at the end of the day, is management's way of patting themselves on the back.
Wow. Great vid and great quote from Tortorella who I'm also far of being a fan of but in this case....that's what a coach should do. That's even going out of his way to bring a point. Great stuff even if people would agree or not.

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11-02-2013, 10:49 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
true, victim, victim, victim, you do seem well conditionned that's for sure
Sure...if that's how you want to see it, that's fine

I'm just not as oblivious

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11-02-2013, 10:56 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Wow. Great vid and great quote from Tortorella who I'm also far of being a fan of but in this case....that's what a coach should do. That's even going out of his way to bring a point. Great stuff even if people would agree or not.
Interestingly enough, MT is more about throwing his own players under the bus (ie Eller after the loss to edmonton, Subban since he has arrived here).

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11-02-2013, 11:00 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post

From the main board, 13:35 into the vid. Not a fan of Tortorella, but he goes to bat for his players. Imagine if somebody, anybody, in the Habs organization stood up for Subban like that, a guy who's faced unwarranted criticism since he set foot in the NHL.

Unfortunately, Therrien is one of those neanderthals Torts is talking about. Instead, the biggest compliment he gets from the coach is 'he's matured a lot over the past year'. Which, at the end of the day, is management's way of patting themselves on the back.
Sure would be nice to hear something like this from MT on Subban. Not expecting that to happen anytime soon though.

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11-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Sure...if that's how you want to see it, that's fine

I'm just not as oblivious
Some people here have never felt racism and thus are unable to recognize it in its most obvious form.

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11-02-2013, 11:16 AM
  #288
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The organization seems more concerned with keeping the media happy than their star players. I'd rather have a happy team that knows its Coaches and GM will stand by them. You want to be harsh on a player, do it in the locker room not in the media.

Especially in a city like Montreal, where the media coverage is insane.

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11-02-2013, 11:22 AM
  #289
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Would be nice if the habs organization back up Subban more, I mean, if Tortorrolla can do it with the Sedins in Vacouver....

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11-02-2013, 11:24 AM
  #290
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Bottom line:

Subban will leave if he's constantly harassed by the media who is always inventing stories out of thin air (they do it every season). He won't leave for any other reason. Giving credibility to any controversy they try to start is shameful and embarrassing.

This is how it always happens. This is why we can't sign anyone. Montreal fans and media are absolutely clueless in every sense of the word. It is impossible, even for a Norris trophy winning defenseman to avoid controversy over the course of the season.

He's happy and playing well, and there's no indication of any problems with him and the team. But here we go........

Does anyone stop and ask why management and coaches can change all the time but still controversy and drama surrounds this team for an eternity? No one can figure out why this happens because they're part of the dumbest fanbase in the NHL.

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11-02-2013, 11:33 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Some people here have never felt racism and thus are unable to recognize it in its most obvious form.
Well in this case, I don't think it's obvious, nor do I think it's racism in the traditional sense

I don't think certain people dislike Subban exclusively because he's black...but I DO believe his behaviour and demeanor are often misinterpreted and he's almost never given the benefit of the doubt, even though the guy has never really done anything to warrant not getting it

There is a clear and obvious double standard at play with Subban, but there seems to be a reluctance to admit this because some think it paints them as racists, which really, is not the case...

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11-02-2013, 11:45 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well in this case, I don't think it's obvious, nor do I think it's racism in the traditional sense

I don't think certain people dislike Subban exclusively because he's black...but I DO believe his behaviour and demeanor are often misinterpreted and he's almost never given the benefit of the doubt, even though the guy has never really done anything to warrant not getting it

There is a clear and obvious double standard at play with Subban, but there seems to be a reluctance to admit this because some think it paints them as racists, which really, is not the case...
Agreed, I really don't think it's as simple as MT not giving him ice because of his race or whatever, but more to do with the cloud of BS that surrounds Subban and everything he does. Dude is one of the most down to earth and well spoken people in the league, and spends time with charities to help disadvantaged kids get into hockey. Still, people say they don't like "the stuff off the ice", and they call him "flamboyant" and I've heard people say he acts like an athlete from another sport and you don't have to think very hard to read between the lines on that one.

I think a part of it is that there's a lot of people who only watch hockey and don't realize how asinine it is to say that Subban is too NBA or too NFL or whatever. God, Subban's practically a choir boy compared to someone like Lebron, Allen Iverson, TO, etc etc.


Last edited by Noob616: 11-02-2013 at 12:01 PM.
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11-02-2013, 11:56 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Bottom line:

Subban will leave if he's constantly harassed by the media who is always inventing stories out of thin air (they do it every season). He won't leave for any other reason. Giving credibility to any controversy they try to start is shameful and embarrassing.

This is how it always happens. This is why we can't sign anyone. Montreal fans and media are absolutely clueless in every sense of the word. It is impossible, even for a Norris trophy winning defenseman to avoid controversy over the course of the season.

He's happy and playing well, and there's no indication of any problems with him and the team. But here we go........

Does anyone stop and ask why management and coaches can change all the time but still controversy and drama surrounds this team for an eternity? No one can figure out why this happens because they're part of the dumbest fanbase in the NHL.
Yeah, I guess he sat out for the fun of it.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. But you're right... it should be.

We should have him locked up long term at a reasonable amount (which is what he was asking for) and we should be playing him at critical points in the game. Our coach should be able to praise him at least here and there and not explicitly blame him for a loss (which he's done at least once this season.) And MTs eyes shouldn't wander the ceiling when the press asks if he and Markov are playing well and he shouldn't downplay the BETTER of the two in favour of the weaker one.

The crap about him "needing to be a better person" is just absolute *********. I didn't hear this when we had Chelios or Roy or Lafleur... A better person? Really? WTF kind of **** is that? How condescending is that? And to say this publicly? MT should shut the **** up.

I've read through your posts in this thread. Some of what you've said is warranted. It is unfair to label people as racists when they don't handle Subban they way maybe they should. But there is negativity surrounding this guy. And for you to sit there and blame the media for this is ridiculous.

The media didn't just invent it out of thin air. Don't pretend that they did. Management have nobody to blame but themselves for this ****. We should be happy to have this guy and instead we get threads like this.

And please stop blaming HF posters for acknowledging what's out there already.

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11-02-2013, 11:59 AM
  #294
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Is MT really that stupid and delusional?

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11-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well in this case, I don't think it's obvious, nor do I think it's racism in the traditional sense

I don't think certain people dislike Subban exclusively because he's black...but I DO believe his behaviour and demeanor are often misinterpreted and he's almost never given the benefit of the doubt, even though the guy has never really done anything to warrant not getting it

There is a clear and obvious double standard at play with Subban, but there seems to be a reluctance to admit this because some think it paints them as racists, which really, is not the case...
This is still racism. The misinterpretation is because they view PK through the stereotype of the star black athlete.

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11-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yeah, I guess he sat out for the fun of it.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. But you're right... it should be.

We should have him locked up long term at a reasonable amount (which is what he was asking for) and we should be playing him at critical points in the game. Our coach should be able to praise him at least here and there and not explicitly blame him for a loss (which he's done at least once this season.) And MTs eyes shouldn't wander the ceiling when the press asks if he and Markov are playing well and he shouldn't downplay the BETTER of the two in favour of the weaker one.

The crap about him "needing to be a better person" is just absolute *********. I didn't hear this when we had Chelios or Roy or Lafleur... A better person? Really? WTF kind of **** is that? How condescending is that? And to say this publicly? MT should shut the **** up.

I've read through your posts in this thread. Some of what you've said is warranted. It is unfair to label people as racists when they don't handle Subban they way maybe they should. But there is negativity surrounding this guy. And for you to sit there and blame the media for this is ridiculous.

The media didn't just invent it out of thin air. Don't pretend that they did. Management have nobody to blame but themselves for this ****. We should be happy to have this guy and instead we get threads like this.

And please stop blaming HF posters for acknowledging what's out there already.
This. I think it's fair to say your posts sums up the situation in an objective manner.

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11-02-2013, 12:14 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Its pretty simple actually. The media and fans want to know about the superstar not some 3rd pairing scrub. Media isn't going to ask questions about Bouillon. MT throwing Bouillon under the bus isn't going to sell newspapers.
I'll have to disagree with you here. Bouillon is a francophone, he's one of Therrien's guys going back to junior and he is a RESPECTED VETERAN, and if the coach called Cube out I have no doubt it would be a big deal.

I do agree that if MT went on a tirade about the 4th line last night that this wouldn't generate much buzz. But Boullion's standing in the fan/media hierarchy is miles above guys like Blunden and White.

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11-02-2013, 12:20 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Is MT really that stupid and delusional?
It's as I've said before : I really hope they don't believe in their own BS.

I hope this is some sort of ridiculous psychological trick to try to push Subban to do more although that seems silly because Subban has always been someone who leaves it all on the ice. Subban needs more refinement to his game, which is not something mind games will help with. Unfortunately it seems that's all MT is capable of offering Subban from what I can see, and this is unfortunate.

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11-02-2013, 12:24 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well in this case, I don't think it's obvious, nor do I think it's racism in the traditional sense

I don't think certain people dislike Subban exclusively because he's black...but I DO believe his behaviour and demeanor are often misinterpreted and he's almost never given the benefit of the doubt, even though the guy has never really done anything to warrant not getting it

There is a clear and obvious double standard at play with Subban, but there seems to be a reluctance to admit this because some think it paints them as racists, which really, is not the case...
Oh I know this case isn't obvious, but I was referring to the prior poster who quoted you saying "blame blame blame" as if Subban is actually treated fairly. I know from our previous discussions that you see this situation exactly the way I do. I find it sickening that some posters are unable to see it and to make matters worse, they think that Subban is treated like the rest of them. Yes Subban should be treated differently, but with respect to being praised for his star play and not for his "he needs to mature" ********.

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, but I have seen my share of racism and sometimes it can be very subtle. Like you said previously, it isn't your classic form of racism, but the prejudice from some stick out like a sore thumb.

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11-02-2013, 12:48 PM
  #300
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I remember reading about Ray Bourque. The story goes that Harry Sinden, as hard nosed and tight fisted as he was , always ensured Bourque was treated better than everyone else. It paid off in some hometown discounts Bourque gave and that cascaded downwards to other contract demands. Kept Bourque playing in Beantown for 20 years.

There is not enough information available to talk about racism in the Habs organization but theres enough out there to suspect they are playing to a L'ac audience.

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