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Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

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Old
11-02-2013, 06:24 PM
  #301
MasterDecoy
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^ **** it.

i give up.

trade him. i don't care what we get as long as it has a second round pick in it

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11-02-2013, 06:42 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Oh I know this case isn't obvious, but I was referring to the prior poster who quoted you saying "blame blame blame" as if Subban is actually treated fairly. I know from our previous discussions that you see this situation exactly the way I do. I find it sickening that some posters are unable to see it and to make matters worse, they think that Subban is treated like the rest of them. Yes Subban should be treated differently, but with respect to being praised for his star play and not for his "he needs to mature" ********.

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, but I have seen my share of racism and sometimes it can be very subtle. Like you said previously, it isn't your classic form of racism, but the prejudice from some stick out like a sore thumb.
I dont like the way the Habs managed Ryder when he was here last season. And I dont think that he was treated fairly by Therrien.

Too bad Ryder is white. He would have had a great excuse. But alas, he had none. All he had to hang his hat on was his shortcomings in his game that needed improvement.

Poor Subban. He is a victim.

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Old
11-02-2013, 06:44 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Is MT really that stupid and delusional?
Absolutely...

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Old
11-02-2013, 06:47 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Oh I know this case isn't obvious, but I was referring to the prior poster who quoted you saying "blame blame blame" as if Subban is actually treated fairly. I know from our previous discussions that you see this situation exactly the way I do. I find it sickening that some posters are unable to see it and to make matters worse, they think that Subban is treated like the rest of them. Yes Subban should be treated differently, but with respect to being praised for his star play and not for his "he needs to mature" ********.

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, but I have seen my share of racism and sometimes it can be very subtle. Like you said previously, it isn't your classic form of racism, but the prejudice from some stick out like a sore thumb.
as a person of dark colored skin you know what's worst than racists ? white people who think they fully understand what racism is and try to explain it de long en large...

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11-02-2013, 07:32 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
as a person of dark colored skin you know what's worst than racists ? white people who think they fully understand what racism is and try to explain it de long en large...
Well, there are white skinned people who are members of ethnic groups who are subject to overwhelming racism.

Your narrow view is interesting, however.

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Old
11-02-2013, 08:47 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I dont like the way the Habs managed Ryder when he was here last season. And I dont think that he was treated fairly by Therrien.

Too bad Ryder is white. He would have had a great excuse. But alas, he had none. All he had to hang his hat on was his shortcomings in his game that needed improvement.

Poor Subban. He is a victim.
Ryder.... Subban

Ryder... Subban

Ryder.. Subban



That you are unable to see the vast difference btw the two speaks volumes of how badly your point misses the mark.

We also let go of Halpern, why not add him as another comparable.



Subban is no victim here... He's a millionaire playing the sport he loves for a living.
The only ones to really get "burnt" by his mishandling is us, the sucker fan base that keep sinking dollars & time into an organization seemingly incapable of finding worthy leadership.

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Old
11-02-2013, 09:14 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Ryder.... Subban

Ryder... Subban

Ryder.. Subban



That you are unable to see the vast difference btw the two speaks volumes of how badly your point misses the mark.

We also let go of Halpern, why not add him as another comparable.
Probably more then half of the players who have played for the Hab's in the last 5 years have been mistreated. Imagine if AK and SK had been black or Weber or Kaberle. Or Cammalleri or Leblanc or Spacek. If any of these players had been black we would be having a similar discussion.

If anything PK is in the wrong here. The NHL offered him a chance to sign an offer sheet so that he could be paid what he was worth and to play for a team that valued him in a fairer way and he declined. Maybe that's what MB wanted, not that I know, but just speculating. Judging MB based on what has happened here he doesn't value PK the same as most of the people here but it is MB's right to value people the way he wants to until Molson et al tell him otherwise.

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Old
11-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Probably more then half of the players who have played for the Hab's in the last 5 years have been mistreated. Imagine if AK and SK had been black or Weber or Kaberle. Or Cammalleri or Leblanc or Spacek. If any of these players had been black we would be having a similar discussion.

If anything PK is in the wrong here. The NHL offered him a chance to sign an offer sheet so that he could be paid what he was worth and to play for a team that valued him in a fairer way and he declined. Maybe that's what MB wanted, not that I know, but just speculating. Judging MB based on what has happened here he doesn't value PK the same as most of the people here but it is MB's right to value people the way he wants to until Molson et al tell him otherwise.
PK in the wrong? What?

Bergevin has made mistakes. Not evaluating PK well was one of them.

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Old
11-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
PK in the wrong? What?

Bergevin has made mistakes. Not evaluating PK well was one of them.
No he knew his worth and the whole point was about to make sure future players agree to sign bridge contracts.

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Old
11-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No he knew his worth and the whole point was about to make sure future players agree to sign bridge contracts.
Why? To make them sign for more money when they show how great they really are?
Would have been wiser to lock Subban before his Norris season

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11-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No he knew his worth and the whole point was about to make sure future players agree to sign bridge contracts.
He obviously didn't know his worth.

Moreover, there was ZERO reason to force him into less than 3 mil per over two years. If you're going to bridge him (don't know why you would) then at least pay the guy four mil for two years. He was clearly worth more than Gorges and more than what we just agreed to with Emelin. Instead we lowball the crap out of him and force a standoff.

Rookie GM. Rookie mistake.

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Old
11-02-2013, 10:13 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
PK in the wrong? What?

Bergevin has made mistakes. Not evaluating PK well was one of them.
PK knew what he was worth on the open market and he should of accepted nothing less.

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Old
11-02-2013, 10:18 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No he knew his worth and the whole point was about to make sure future players agree to sign bridge contracts.
No, he didn't. Please don't argue that PK's worth was 2.85M.

We had no issues signing kids to bridge deals before, nor does any other NHL have problems doing it either. Some kids are worth taking a risk on with longer deals right away, some aren't. PK was a sure fire bet.

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Old
11-02-2013, 10:43 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Well, there are white skinned people who are members of ethnic groups who are subject to overwhelming racism.

Your narrow view is interesting, however.
yeah, I'm sure the Finn and Sweden community in Canada feel way more racism than the middle east and african community

I'd really be curious to know the equivalent of ******/sand ****** for the Finn, Russian or Danish people here in North America

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:02 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I'd really be curious to know the equivalent of ******/sand ****** for the Finn, Russian or Danish people here in North America
snow %^&*@# has potential, I think

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:04 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I dont like the way the Habs managed Ryder when he was here last season. And I dont think that he was treated fairly by Therrien.

Too bad Ryder is white. He would have had a great excuse. But alas, he had none. All he had to hang his hat on was his shortcomings in his game that needed improvement.

Poor Subban. He is a victim.
Keep pushing that agenda.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Ryder.... Subban

Ryder... Subban

Ryder.. Subban



That you are unable to see the vast difference btw the two speaks volumes of how badly your point misses the mark.

We also let go of Halpern, why not add him as another comparable.



Subban is no victim here... He's a millionaire playing the sport he loves for a living.
The only ones to really get "burnt" by his mishandling is us, the sucker fan base that keep sinking dollars & time into an organization seemingly incapable of finding worthy leadership.
The problem here is that I never equated Ryder with Subban regarding talent.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:10 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Oh I know this case isn't obvious, but I was referring to the prior poster who quoted you saying "blame blame blame" as if Subban is actually treated fairly. I know from our previous discussions that you see this situation exactly the way I do. I find it sickening that some posters are unable to see it and to make matters worse, they think that Subban is treated like the rest of them. Yes Subban should be treated differently, but with respect to being praised for his star play and not for his "he needs to mature" ********.

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, but I have seen my share of racism and sometimes it can be very subtle. Like you said previously, it isn't your classic form of racism, but the prejudice from some stick out like a sore thumb.
There are people here who can't identify subtle racism. To them racism is lynchings and racial epithets. But it's not. Anyone can see that there is some subtle racism when it comes to PK. I've never seen such a good, engaging player get treated the way PK does. It's hilarious.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:12 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Keep pushing that agenda.
As long as people keep talking about the absurdity of Subban not playing on the PK as some conspiracy against Subban, and then throw racism into the mix, yes, I will continue to call Subban a victim.

If PK is being conspired against by a racist coach, he is a victim.

Poor Subban, the victim.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:13 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
snow %^&*@# has potential, I think
I doubt many in our Canadian/Quebecois community (majority = caucasian, white) call them snow whatever

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:16 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
yeah, I'm sure the Finn and Sweden community in Canada feel way more racism than the middle east and african community

I'd really be curious to know the equivalent of ******/sand ****** for the Finn, Russian or Danish people here in North America
You purposely choose three ethnic groups out of hundreds. Not a satisfactory response. Yet a telling one.

"It's only my ethnic group who is suffering! "

Open your eyes. Racism and to some degree genocide is on six continents. And sometimes it's white skinned people on the **** end.

And other times it's black against black. Including genocide.

I love everybody until they **** with me or do horrific things to others.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:18 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
There are people here who can't identify subtle racism. To them racism is lynchings and racial epithets. But it's not. Anyone can see that there is some subtle racism when it comes to PK. I've never seen such a good, engaging player get treated the way PK does. It's hilarious.
at the other end of the spectrum there's idiots who think the sole reason a black person is treated unfairly (in their view) is his/her skin color... wich is equally racist.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:22 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I doubt many in our Canadian/Quebecois community (majority = caucasian, white) call them snow whatever
I have never heard it before in my life. I'm proposing it. Some day it will become popular and someone will call me that, and I'll say 'Psst buddy, I'm the guy that coined that term.' And he will never believe me....


Last edited by andy28: 11-02-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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Old
11-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
at the other end of the spectrum there's idiots who think the sole reason a black person is treated unfairly (in their view) is his/her skin color... wich is equally racist.
And the nail is hit on the head very well.

Great post ECWHSWI.

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Old
11-02-2013, 11:32 PM
  #325
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
You purposely choose three ethnic groups out of hundreds. Not a satisfactory response. Yet a telling one.

"It's only my ethnic group who is suffering! "

Open your eyes. Racism and to some degree genocide is on six continents. And sometimes it's white skinned people on the **** end.

And other times it's black against black. Including genocide.

I love everybody until they **** with me or do horrific things to others.
I suggest you do the same... wether people in New Zealand are suffering in any way is irrelevant to this particular case as both PK and MT are living in North America and neither are from New Zealand...


want to debate racism globally ? sure, it's an interesting debate... thing is, Subban is neither caucasian or asian so it wouldnt tell much about him to talk about those communities (or other people in Middle East, Asia, Europe, South America, etc), just like MT is neither German or Aussie so ŵhatever these community do would also be totally irrelevant to the actual topic...

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