HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

who doesn't have their jersey retired, but should?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-02-2013, 09:35 AM
  #26
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noheart II View Post
I personally think the criteria for retired jerseys get weaker by the decade.

In a nutshell, we have gone too far as it is, stop retiring every dam captain you had, especially if they never did bring home a cup.

I'm looking at you Toronto and Vancouver.
The standards for jersey retirements and being a HHOF entrant shouldn't be the same. A jersey retirement is a great way for a franchise to recognize a player's contribution to that franchise. If they haven't won a cup that's hardly their fault, hockey's a team sport and one player cannot win a championship on his own.

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #27
Terry Yake
Registered User
 
Terry Yake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 4,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyFox View Post
Paul Kariya should be retired in Anaheim. I don't think it is. What's the story about that?
kariya stated after the 02-03 season that he wanted to remain with the ducks because they had "unfinished business" as in winning the cup after they had just come off losing to the devils in the SCF. they didn't give kariya a qualifying offer but apparently the ducks and kariya were in agreement on a new contract. instead he took a massive paycut and signed with colorado for 1.2 million. so since then he's been on bad terms with most ducks fans.

i think the ducks will eventually retire his #9 but it won't be until they retire selanne's #8 first. i was hoping they used the throwback game last month as an opportunity to sort of welcome kariya back to the organization after so many years on bad terms. but i'm sure in the future the two sides will make amends and kariya's number will be retired alongside teemu's and rightfully so.

Terry Yake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #28
Noheart II
Registered User
 
Noheart II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Castle Noheart
Country: Romania
Posts: 437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
The standards for jersey retirements and being a HHOF entrant shouldn't be the same. A jersey retirement is a great way for a franchise to recognize a player's contribution to that franchise. If they haven't won a cup that's hardly their fault, hockey's a team sport and one player cannot win a championship on his own.
Let's assume the Canadiens last another 500 years, they are going to have to start adding decimal points at this rate.

Noheart II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 11:22 AM
  #29
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
Lemieux. League-wide.
That's a slippery slope. Surely 4 and 9 would need to be retired league wide as well?

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 11:34 AM
  #30
Horvath Broncos
Registered User
 
Horvath Broncos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That's a slippery slope. Surely 4 and 9 would need to be retired league wide as well?
it seems reasonable to only retire the GOAT's jersey league wide if even his.

Horvath Broncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 12:05 PM
  #31
Signature
Kings of the Rebuild
 
Signature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 6,468
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Al MacInnis with the Flames. I know they did the 'Forever-a-Flame' thing, but it should be retired, and they're still not even giving out the number.
I believe it's because he's still working within the St. Louis organization and Calgary prefers their retired numbers to be retired players under the Flames' brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda
For sure. One would have to be real close minded and essentially evil not to forgive the man after what he has had the courage and will to do after hanging them up. I know people like that, and i usually call them ********.
To me it's very impressive that he has not lapsed back into his old habits and addictions - I have basically heard that a person does not simply escape addictions, they have to convince their selves to be sober every new day that comes, because to them the addiction is ever present. I would say that's a pretty important role model to have, not even just for fans in the community, but even to other hockey players that might be experiencing such difficulties in their own lives.

I truly hope that the Flames' front office will retire his sweater.

Signature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 12:45 PM
  #32
vadim sharifijanov
#bryantreevesbad
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyFox View Post
That doesn't mean his number shouldn't be retired and it shouldn't mean that the Anaheim francise shouldn't honour their second best player in team's history just because he is not that popular among the fans.
pretty good argument for giguere, decent one for niedermayer, maybe even pronger, and by now you'd also probably throw getzlaf and perry into the argument. where's kariya's conn smythe or hart trophy or rocket or non-invisible performance in the finals?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
Flames - Theoren Fleury, issues be damned. He's not that guy anymore, he's sober and a contributing member to the community.
how could you not? who has ever brought more excitement to calgary? who has ever lifted more butts out of seats? who has ever bled more for that uniform?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
Lemieux. League-wide.
i would barf. absolutely not. one of my favourite articles about mario--


Quote:
SHUTTING THE DOOR ON MARIO LEMIEUX

By Blake Bell


It remains a substantial understatement to say that numbers, in the NHL, can fool you. The Rangers and Flyers both this summer paid Luke Richardson and Mike Keane two million dollars plus, yet combined they had 39 points last season. But both teams would love to have either of those players compared to many of the seventy-point forwards they harbour on their current rosters. Numbers in the NHL do not tell the whole story.

While still trying to figure out what Dit Clapper did to warrant the customary three-year waiting period for induction into the Hall Of Fame, the same door that has been opened to other luminaries such as Bobby Orr, Jean Beliveau and Gordie Howe, has been opened to Lemieux : instant access to the Hall Of Fame. No, not on the same day as he retires like some have suggested for Wayne Gretzky, but the honor still puts Lemieux in heady company.

And yet as one looks as the names mentioned above, one asks why was he allowed this honour? Numbers never tell the whole story. Lemieux scored this many goals and had this many points, blah, blah, blah, but what separates the other men, those PERHAPS worthy of being inducted the same year as their retirement, from Lemieux is that all the names mentioned gave back more to the game than they took away. They ran their careers as they ran their lives; with a sense of honour and dignity that made NO ONE question them receiving such accolades. Can one say the same about Mario Lemieux?

NO

Much like Eric Lindros, from the moment of draft day (another honour Lemieux made a mockery of) in 1984, very little about Mario's career WASN'T about Mario's career. Does this make one deserving of early entrance into the Hall Of Fame; a shrine dedicated to those who brought ''honour'' to the game of hockey?

Bringing honour means more than bringing yourself to the game. Pittsburgh fans, in the '80s were lucky to get that, much less lucky to get Mario. As his name was called out as the first pick overall in 1984, Lemieux sat silently looking up to the sky (perhaps hoping for a miracle to rid himself of what all franchise players must go through; starting on a bad team). He never came down to proudly put on his new team's jersey. What should have been a moment of exhilaration became an insult to the city he would spend the next 12 years entertaining. Even Lindros had enough respect for that tradition to get off his rear-end and join the franchise he detested so on the podium.
Again, the numbers paint a rosy picture, but the story reads different. While Mario piled up next to unbelievable numbers the first six years of his career, his Penguins would only manage the playoffs once. Bobby Orr himself noted that, while Mario may have been the most talented player he had ever seen, he was Gretzky's poor cousin when it came to playing hard night in, night out.

1989 should have been a year of triumph again marked him as a bitter, selfish individual devoid of class that others merely exude as part of their personality. In the 1988-89 season, (his first with his new team) Wayne Gretzky re-made the Los Angeles Kings into an NHL power on the ice (and at the gate) by his lonesome and defeated Lemieux for the Hart trophy, even though Mario had his best statistical season ever (85 goals and 199 points). Rather than show the class Wayne had exhibited only the season previous when 16 games lost to injury handed the Hart and scoring trophy to Lemieux, Mario bitterly complained, stating that ''they'' only gave the MVP to persons with the second best numbers (referring to Kirk Gibson's magical run with the 1989 Los Angeles Dodgers).
Even after the 1987 Canada Cup, which most people considered his coming out party, he still lacked the ability to realize the most important lesson from hanging around such high calibre talent; that holding oneself's with dignity is far more important than holding any trophy.

His comments towards Gretzky's win that year became symptomatic of his never-ending desire to exceed Wayne's numbers. The start of every season always marked an incredibly fast start, posting point-per-game numbers that had every fan quivering as to whether or not he would crack every record Gretzky ever held.

Inevitably, reality set in and strain of running up points against the weaker competition would hamper late-season heroics. The last game of 1990 should have been a gimme given that the Penguins had to defeat the Sabres to gain access to the playoffs. Needless to say, the Penguins lost and the playoff success eluding Mario for fifth time in six years. Lemieux's career can be broken into three parts and this game would mark the end of the first one. Were it not for the second part, the discussion whether to allow Lemieux early access to the Hall would be moot.

MARIO'S MARK

1989-90 marked the end of the career of the first coach whom on Mario ransacked. Gene Ubriaco wouldn't follow the Mario line. He was gone 26 games into that 1989-90 season; run out of town by a superstar who ran his own show. G.M. Craig Patrick saved Mario's career by bringing in two of the most respected coaches to ever coach to guide Lemieux to his two Stanley Cups.
Yes, amazingly the Penguins went from out of the playoffs to two-time Stanley Cup winners the next two years. Bob Johnston led the first team, but fell ill during the 1991 Canada Cup and passed away. Enter Scotty Bowman and another Cup win. Regardless of the fact that the Penguins beat the 68-point North Stars in 1991 and 87-point Blackhawks (minus their best player in Jeremy Roenick, who had a broken forearm), Lemieux could no longer be denied his status as mega-star. All superstars are finally given that title once they have pursued, and found playoff excellence.
This was definitely the high point for Mario in integrity as he even rightfully acknowledged that both his Conn Smythes could have gone to Kevin Stevens in 1991 and Tom Barrasso in 1992.
But Lemieux was quickly going down as the NHL's biggest disappointment. He may have saved hockey in Pittsburgh but the powers that be in the NHL head office wanted him to be the next Gretzky in terms of marketing the game. Gretzky had brought the NHL to national heights in North America and they wanted so desperately for Lemieux to pick up the baton and run with it.
It is in the area alone that Lemieux does not deserve the special honour placed upon him by the Hockey Hall Of Fame of early induction. Why is it that all the other stars who received this honour put so much back into the game while Mario shunned it, in fact, embarrassed it at every turn?
The third segment of Mario's career is one that should have never have happened. After a return from Hodgkin's disease in 1992-93, Mario captured that year's scoring title and was given a token MVP over the far more deserving Doug Gilmour (remember, the numbers can lie). This and both his Conn Smythes were examples of the league's desperation to elevate Mario's status to that of a marquee player who could lead the game into the post-Gretzky era.

THAT SAID, no one was questioning the character of Lemieux at that point in his career. His team reeled off the longest winning streak in the history of the NHL (17 games) to end the 1993 season and certain prognosticators were predicting the Penguins would sweep to the their third Cup.

EARLY RETIREMENT

A seriously suspect New York Islanders team, without its ''star'' Pierre Turgeon, made of a mockery of that ''sweep-to-the-Cup'' claim by defeating the Penguins in the quarter-finals in seven games. It still remains as the most stunning upset of the decade. When Lemieux went over to shake hands with Al Arbour after David Volek's overtime winner, Lemieux closed the door on his career. The only problem is that he didn't stop playing.

At the best of times, Mario was a reluctant superstar. While Gretzky was shoved in front of every camera and reporter the world over, Mario had no interest in promoting the game that brought him fame and fortune. Worse, this later period would be marked by his disgraceful maligning of the game that had placed him in such high regard.

The fact of the matter is that hockey ceased to be fun for Lemieux after that early playoff exit in 1993. When his team was failing in those later years, his condemnation of the league as a ''garage-league'' and his constant whining about how the game wouldn't change its rules to suit the game's best players (him, of course) are the antithesis of a player who deserves to be given an early entrance into the Hall Of Fame. This is where Lemieux absolutely failed the game. Markets that were opening up all over the world needed the next Gretzky to emphasis the positives, NOT to hear about how poor the play would be for new fans to come and watch. Funnily enough, the game was just fine when Lemieux was winning or not slumping, but when he wasn't, it was a nightmare.
1993-94 proved to be the '90s nadir of his career to that point, only reinforcing the notion that he should have ended it all the season before. His 22 games played that year a sign that his back was deteriorating quickly, but it was his playoff effort that year which showed how poor his attitude to hard work and discipline had become.

The Penguins were trounced in six games by a hopelessly coached, goaltending rollercoasting team called the Washington Capitals. As the cameras scanned the bench, TSN announcer Jim Hughson said it best when he commented on a Penguins team as one who, only a year ago, was thought young and dominant but now looked old and tired. The seven points in six games barely told the story of how little Lemieux had to give to the game which had given him so much.

Lemieux took the 1994-95 season off but had to come back for the following two years to collect an $11 million paycheque in 1996-7, LONG after he knew he had no interest in playing. His deplorable record at award shows continued during 1996 show. He publicly berated the management of his own team, blackmailing them with the thought that he would retire if they didn't get better players to play with him. He actually couldn't look beyond his own needs to see that he had just disabled his own G.M. from making any worthwhile trades. Every team in the league now knew G.M. Craig Patrick had no choice but to deal. His position was sadly weakened. But one of the members of the Hall Of Fame selection committee called his early selection a ''slam dunk''. Certainly he was ignoring Lemieux's international record, which took an ugly twist in that same summer of 1996.

WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY

Mario's only contribution to his country was the 1987 Canada Cup. But rather than admit his guaranteed intention to the World Cup 1996 Team Canada organizers that he was never going to play in that tournament, he strung them along, even appearing in a Canadian Tire commercial (hey, international games don't pay a dime, do they?) wearing a Team Canada jersey! That same Canadian team lost (essentially) by one goal to the USA. But at least that rest allowed Lemieux to collect his $11 million paycheque in 1996-7, even though his ability and desire to play against the highest calibre of competition was non-existent.

Forget the fact that he was mauled every time he played head-to-head against Gretzky, the 1995-6 and 1996-7 season saw Mario on many nights sit out games against Gretzky and teams of quality on back-to-back nights to play against worthless opposition like Ottawa and San Jose. Does this warrant early selection? But hey, he won the scoring race both those years (remember about numbers). Perhaps it was most fitting that his career came to an end with another playoff disgrace as the now-lowly Penguins were quickly disposed off in five games by the Flyers. Again, Mario had let his team down with a sub-par performance. You could smell the grass on his golf-shoes as he looked like a man who just couldn't wait to be rid of a bother now so great that his very presence tarnished the game which put him on the map. What is worse is that he knew it but, for the dollars (eleven million of them), he hung around.

Anyone can trot out the Pete Rose argument and say it is what a person did on the ice - the numbers that he put up - that really decide whether he enters such a hallowed Shrine. But using Pete Rose as an example against Lemieux only reinforces the difference in work ethic and respect for the game had by the two men. Regardless of what addiction led Pete Rose to endanger his chances of ever entering the Baseball Hall Of Fame, people always talk about his uncanny desire to make every hit and every base taken a titanic struggle. And he isn't even in his Hall Of Fame!
Nobody is saying for a moment that Lemieux should be shut out of the Hockey Hall Of Fame. On his numbers alone, he is beyond a guarantee. But for the sake of the integrity of this great institution, early entrance - when a player is put before the rules - shouldn't be granted for those who put themselves before the game.
http://web.archive.org/web/199902091.../hfb2lemi.html

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:18 PM
  #33
Horvath Broncos
Registered User
 
Horvath Broncos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
pretty good argument for giguere, decent one for niedermayer, maybe even pronger, and by now you'd also probably throw getzlaf and perry into the argument. where's kariya's conn smythe or hart trophy or rocket or non-invisible performance in the finals?
]
Perry's and Getzlaf's numbers could very well be retired when all is said and done. as for the other players. Niedermayer played in the ducks 5 seasons and Pronger 3. although they were important players when they won the cup they just didn't play long enough in Anaheim to warrant their numbers to be retired. Giguere played a long time in Anaheim and also had two heckuva playoffs, but then again he was anything but consistent and in no way in the same category as Kariya. Most of the time he wasn't considered one of the best goalies in the league. Kariya may not have the hardware but he has ~3 100 point seasons and better PPG in Anaheim than Getzlaf or Perry for example.

Horvath Broncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:27 PM
  #34
vadim sharifijanov
#bryantreevesbad
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyFox View Post
Perry's and Getzlaf's numbers could very well be retired when all is said and done. as for the other players. Niedermayer played in the ducks 5 seasons and Pronger 3. although they were important players when they won the cup they just didn't play long enough in Anaheim to warrant their numbers to be retired. Giguere played a long time in Anaheim and also had two heckuva playoffs, but then again he was anything but consistent and in no way in the same category as Kariya. Most of the time he wasn't considered one of the best goalies in the league. Kariya may not have the hardware but he has ~3 100 point seasons and better PPG in Anaheim than Getzlaf or Perry for example.
are you a ducks fan? i'm curious to hear whether most ducks fans still would call kariya the second best or greatest or most beloved player in franchise history. just speculating, but i imagine if i was a ducks fan, i'd remember any of those other guys more fondly, despite their mostly shorter tenures.

in a way, kariya reminds me of naslund in vancouver. seemed like the bee's knees at the time, but the farther away you get from that period, the happier you are with the guys who have come along since and the less you want to remember the years he was a superstar.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:29 PM
  #35
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
While we're at it, what are some of the weakest examples of players having their jersey retired by their team? Please exclusive those who died while active or suffered a career ending injury.
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, since people like to jump on it.

As an Avalanche fan, I wouldn't have retired Ray Bourque's #77. What he did here was great, and I'll always remember those two years fondly, but it was just that - (less than) two years.

(This is separate from my campaign to stop retiring numbers altogether, and just honor them - like Toronto does)

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:32 PM
  #36
vadim sharifijanov
#bryantreevesbad
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, since people like to jump on it.

As an Avalanche fan, I wouldn't have retired Ray Bourque's #77. What he did here was great, and I'll always remember those two years fondly, but it was just that - (less than) two years.

(This is separate from my campaign to stop retiring numbers altogether, and just honor them - like Toronto does)
mike gartner in washington. when that happened after he was inducted into the HHOF, did any of that team's fans even still remember he'd ever played for them?

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:37 PM
  #37
aemoreira1981
Registered User
 
aemoreira1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,125
vCash: 500
25 and 32 in Buffalo. Andreychuk played his first 800+ games in Buffalo, and Rob Ray played all but 11 of his 900 career games in Buffalo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyFox View Post
Paul Kariya should be retired in Anaheim. I don't think it is. What's the story about that?
I wouldn't be surprised if Kariya has to wait in line behind Teemu Selanne, whose #8 figures to be the first number retired by the Ducks. Before Kariya was forced by concussions to hang up the skates, he was considering bringing his career full circle and returning to Anaheim.

A case could also be made for #35 (J.S. Giguere) as he dominated and won the Conn Smythe with Anaheim despite the Ducks losing the Stanley Cup in seven games in that season.

aemoreira1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #38
Terry Yake
Registered User
 
Terry Yake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 4,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
are you a ducks fan? i'm curious to hear whether most ducks fans still would call kariya the second best or greatest or most beloved player in franchise history. just speculating, but i imagine if i was a ducks fan, i'd remember any of those other guys more fondly, despite their mostly shorter tenures.

in a way, kariya reminds me of naslund in vancouver. seemed like the bee's knees at the time, but the farther away you get from that period, the happier you are with the guys who have come along since and the less you want to remember the years he was a superstar.
as a ducks fan there is no doubt that selanne is the most beloved player in franchise history. while kariya was the team's first superstar and essentially was the franchise along with teemu in the 90s, his departure and the manner in which he left turned most ducks fans against him and most still feel the same animosity towards him even 10 years later. this, combined with teemu's return in '05 and his play since then has all but cemented his legacy as the greatest duck of all time. not to mention the stanley cup win in '07

i'd put kariya #2 on a list of greatest players in team history and i feel that if they do ever retire his number, it should be only after they retire selanne's. giguere could be next in line after those two but i see it as a longshot. i could see scotty getting his number retired in the future though. pronger definitely won't simply because he only played 3 seasons with the ducks.

Terry Yake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 02:04 PM
  #39
Sprague Cleghorn
User Registered
 
Sprague Cleghorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Edmonton, KY
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 1,839
vCash: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Magnusson's jersey is retired
I meant his number should not have been retired.

Sprague Cleghorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:40 PM
  #40
mrhockey193195
Registered User
 
mrhockey193195's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
Cook and Boucher should also be up in the rafters
Absolutely. Hextall too, you think?

EDIT: And again, this is why I think a team HOF (or what Toronto does with their numbers) is the way to go. The Rangers had two numbers retired for the longest time (Gilbert and Giacomin), and in the blink of an eye it's up to eight. And with those eight, now we're discussing four or five more players who should have been honored based on those standards. How many more numbers will be retired in the next fifty years?

mrhockey193195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-02-2013, 03:55 PM
  #41
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
I believe it's because he's still working within the St. Louis organization and Calgary prefers their retired numbers to be retired players under the Flames' brand.



To me it's very impressive that he has not lapsed back into his old habits and addictions - I have basically heard that a person does not simply escape addictions, they have to convince their selves to be sober every new day that comes, because to them the addiction is ever present. I would say that's a pretty important role model to have, not even just for fans in the community, but even to other hockey players that might be experiencing such difficulties in their own lives.

I truly hope that the Flames' front office will retire his sweater.
The issue with Fleury, from the Flames perspective, is that he's unpredictable and prone to public outbursts. Its a conservative organization, and they don't want to retire his jersey only to have him turn around and make a bunch of embarassing comments in the media the next day.

There was some resitance to even bringing him back for that pre-season tryout a few years ago. And he kind of proved his detractors right by taking some silly shots at Craig Conroy later on that same year.

From what I've heard from people close to the organization, the Flames still haven't wrapped their head around what their public relationship with Theo should be. It has nothing to do with his 'issues' per se... But his tendency to still be a little erratic and controversial. He's burned some bridges.

DisgruntledGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 06:54 AM
  #42
Mulletman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyFox View Post
That doesn't mean his number shouldn't be retired and it shouldn't mean that the Anaheim francise shouldn't honour their second best player in team's history just because he is not that popular among the fans.

it would be kinda cool if they retired Selšnne's and Kariya's number at the same night.
He's also responsible for ruining Selanne's chances to win the Art Ross back in 1997-98, when he refused to sign a contract with Anaheim at the beginning of the season. Therefore retiring his number at the same time as Selanne's would be a bad idea...

Mulletman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 09:00 AM
  #43
bigbuffalo313
Registered User
 
bigbuffalo313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Absolutely. Hextall too, you think?

EDIT: And again, this is why I think a team HOF (or what Toronto does with their numbers) is the way to go. The Rangers had two numbers retired for the longest time (Gilbert and Giacomin), and in the blink of an eye it's up to eight. And with those eight, now we're discussing four or five more players who should have been honored based on those standards. How many more numbers will be retired in the next fifty years?
Hextall maybe

Lundqvist will definitely have his number retired for the Rangers. Jagr has an outside chance due to not being here that long. Others we would have to see what happens with the rest of their career

bigbuffalo313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 09:23 AM
  #44
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noheart II View Post
Let's assume the Canadiens last another 500 years, they are going to have to start adding decimal points at this rate.
Or maybe just a third digit? Maybe 500 years from now the polar ice caps will have melted and Montreal will be 100 feet under. Maybe 500 years from now you'll be able to download Montreal bagels. Maybe 500 years from now hockey will be contact free and they'll use railgun technology to shoot pucks at 200 mph. You'll need a better argument than 500 years from now.

It's up to each franchise to decide for themselves. The standards for jersey retirement shouldn't be as high as entrance to the hall of fame because the latter is a higher honour than the former. Just because Trevor Linden or Wendel Clark won't make the hhof doesn't mean their contributions aren't worth recognizing by the teams they played for.

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 09:27 AM
  #45
tjcurrie
Registered User
 
tjcurrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gibbons, Alberta
Posts: 3,932
vCash: 500
Derian Hatcher's #2 in Dallas.

tjcurrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 10:26 AM
  #46
Hawksfan2828
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 10,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
The Blackhawks haven't retired any jerseys from the pre-Hull/Mikita years...

The most noteworthy absence has to be Charlie Gardiner, especially considering how he left the team.

Earl Seibert is another very notable omission...the guy only had 9 post season AS teams while on the Hawks.

Doug Bentley is another worth mentioning
Denis Savards 18 was retired not too long ago.

I'd like to see Doug Wilson, Steve Larmers and maybe even Chelios' numbers retired.

Hawksfan2828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #47
Franck
Insolent Upstart
 
Franck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,828
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Derian Hatcher's #2 in Dallas.
I'd imagine both his and Jere Lehtinen's numbers will go up into the rafters once Modano has had his retired.

Franck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2013, 02:30 PM
  #48
Crosbyfan
Registered User
 
Crosbyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Park and Ratelle in NY. And along those lines, as much as I love the man and the player, Adam Graves should not have his number retired by the Rangers.

This is why I'm a big proponent of teams having a team HOF in addition to jersey retirements...so you can honor many players who made a great impact over the years, without retiring 20 different players' numbers.
Especially not with it being, first and foremost, Bathgate's number.

Crosbyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 04:44 PM
  #49
Robbler
Registered User
 
Robbler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,171
vCash: 500
One of the few-if not only-who think Osgood's 30 should go up in Detroit.

Robbler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 06:22 PM
  #50
pvr
Kruger Line=2.75 Men
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
The Blackhawks haven't retired any jerseys from the pre-Hull/Mikita years...

The most noteworthy absence has to be Charlie Gardiner, especially considering how he left the team.

Earl Seibert is another very notable omission...the guy only had 9 post season AS teams while on the Hawks.

Doug Bentley is another worth mentioning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Hendrix View Post
Keith Magnusson for the Blackhawks?

He died not because of anything ice related.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Magnusson's jersey is retired
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Denis Savards 18 was retired not too long ago.

I'd like to see Doug Wilson, Steve Larmers and maybe even Chelios' numbers retired.
Keith Magnuson's jersey was retired almost as a secondary offshoot of the Pierre Pilote jersey retirement...both wore number 3. While I have a soft spot for Maggie, and loved his heart for those great 70's Hawks teams, imo he didn't deserve the inclusion with that number being retired.

The Hawks organization has stated, I believe, that only numbers worn by HOF players will be retired. It makes the exclusion of the pre-1960's players difficult to understand.

That said, I agree with Larmer's number (28) being retired. Chelios might not have been a Hawk for long enough, he left under difficult circumstances, and he has that infamous picture of him wearing a Wings jersey with other Hawk greats, all of whom were wearing their Hawks jersey for the photo.

pvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.