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Lupul attempts hit or headshot?

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11-03-2013, 07:21 PM
  #26
ziploc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilma View Post
Don't think they'd suspend him based on intent given that they often choose not to suspend if there's no injury. Never liked that line of thinking, but that does seemt o be the precedent.

Wouldn't disagree that intent appears to be there though, from that angle. Lupul strangely seems to do this kinda thing from time to time (Hedman hit last year) - no idea why.

I will say that it's somewhat representative of our evening that he attempted a cheapshot and managed to clock Kadri instead.
Great post!

Intent is such a difficult thing to determine, and even though it seems fairly clear here, he didn't manage to successfully actualise his evil plans. Does someone get suspended for trying to do something bad, even though they fail? If he had connected, sure, but I'm of the opinion that this is not suspension-worthy.

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11-03-2013, 07:21 PM
  #27
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I believe it is, but intent alone hasn't been grounds for a suspension that I can remember. It's only used as a secondary factor when assessing the severity.
I agree. The fact that Lupul intended to injure Sedin is irrelevant as the rule is written because he did not make contact.

So far as I can tell there is no rule against injuring your own player. Perhaps there should be.

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11-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
And if it connected to Henrik Sedin's head? What would you say then?
That's obviously a different story.

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11-03-2013, 07:23 PM
  #29
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I think if suspensions are handed out for intent to injure, the culture will improve.

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11-03-2013, 07:24 PM
  #30
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I don't think so, Kesler, Burrows and co. still get away with all sorts of that stuff.
Not really.

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11-03-2013, 07:24 PM
  #31
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Lupul went in for a hit, the Sedin went right to dodge it, Lupul tried to atleast get a piece of him with the right side of his body but missed and hit Kadri.

Nothing to see here.

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11-03-2013, 07:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Wilma View Post
I believe it is, but intent alone hasn't been grounds for a suspension that I can remember. It's only used as a secondary factor when assessing the severity.
Thanks. In that case I'd definitely be open to seeing fines for this type of thing. Just something to discourage behavior like this. Has no place in the game -- no need to wait until someone is concussed to crack down.

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11-03-2013, 07:25 PM
  #33
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Not really.
Oh yes.

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11-03-2013, 07:26 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
Intent is such a difficult thing to determine, and even though it seems fairly clear here, he didn't manage to successfully actualise his evil plans. Does someone get suspended for trying to do something bad, even though they fail? If he had connected, sure, but I'm of the opinion that this is not suspension-worthy.
Right. There's also plenty of other possible outcomes (could have hit his shoulder, his chest etc.) In my view, it's at least worth a fine and a discussion to make it clear that it's being watched.

I would also include it in a player's history if / when they actually do make contact on a similar play so they get a more severe penalty. You'd have less of the HFboard reaction that "what do you mean X player doesn't have a past history?? He's been running around like a dick for Y years now!" (which was many folks' reaction to the recent Kaleta incident).

If the intent wasn't actually there, the player in question probably doesn't ever wind up in a similar circumstance in the future where they'd actually connect on such a hit. If it is, you then take past indiscretions into account.

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11-03-2013, 07:26 PM
  #35
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Oh yes.
Care to provide some evidence?

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11-03-2013, 07:27 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Lupul went in for a hit, the Sedin went right to dodge it, Lupul tried to atleast get a piece of him with the right side of his body but missed and hit Kadri.

Nothing to see here.
Except for that blatant attempted elbow...

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11-03-2013, 07:28 PM
  #37
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Dirty attempt by a dirty player.


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11-03-2013, 07:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Lupul went in for a hit, the Sedin went right to dodge it, Lupul tried to atleast get a piece of him with the right side of his body but missed and hit Kadri.

Nothing to see here.
In other words his elbow..

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11-03-2013, 07:30 PM
  #39
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This is suspendable for sure.

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11-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #40
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Obviously he attempted to elbow him in the head...any non-homer Leafs fan would be able to tell that. He won't get suspended and shouldn't, plus he ends up looking like the idiot when he misses and nails Kadri and then his team gets shut out by the goalie that they wanted no part of.

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11-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Lupul went in for a hit, the Sedin went right to dodge it, Lupul tried to atleast get a piece of him with the right side of his body but missed and hit Kadri.

Nothing to see here.
If by "right side of his body" you mean elbow, then yes.

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11-03-2013, 07:32 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Obviously he attempted to elbow him in the head...any non-homer Leafs fan would be able to tell that. He won't get suspended and shouldn't, plus he ends up looking like the idiot when he misses and nails Kadri and then his team gets shut out by the goalie that they wanted no part of.
Great post.

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11-03-2013, 07:32 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
In other words his elbow..
Objection, your honour! The plaintiff is putting words in my clients mouth!

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11-03-2013, 07:33 PM
  #44
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Intent was very obvious from my perspective. He won't be suspended but in my opinion he should at least receive some sort of discipline. Very disappointing to see that from a player like Lupul.

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11-03-2013, 07:34 PM
  #45
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Leaf fan here. That defenitely looked like Lupul had bad intentions all the way. I don't know what he was thinking right there. Good to see that no one got hurt.

As for a fine/suspension...it's not going to happen. As the OP said, NHL seems to suspend only when someone gets hurt, or whenever someone looks like they could have been badly injured.

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11-03-2013, 07:34 PM
  #46
Wilma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Dirty attempt by a dirty player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

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11-03-2013, 07:36 PM
  #47
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For instances like this and Brown's attempted knee + elbow on Schwartz, I'd like Shanahan to tell the player that the next time something like this happens, he'll get fined.

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11-03-2013, 07:37 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Obviously he attempted to elbow him in the head...any non-homer Leafs fan would be able to tell that. He won't get suspended and shouldn't, plus he ends up looking like the idiot when he misses and nails Kadri and then his team gets shut out by the goalie that they wanted no part of.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I just feel obliged to say something about that last comment.

By all accounts, Dave Nonis really wanted to get Luongo, and if anything, the Leafs were the only team that wanted any part of Luongo last year.

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11-03-2013, 07:37 PM
  #49
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I suspect the NHL's suspension habits could partially come from fear of appeals from the NHLPA.

How do you suspend somebody, preventing them from earning their income, based on what YOU decide is malicious intent?

In other words, how can you PROVE that was his intent?

The fact that salary is lost during suspensions makes it seem likely to me that the NHL needs concrete proof in whatever they are suspending somebody over.

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11-03-2013, 07:38 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherSide View Post
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I just feel obliged to say something about that last comment.

By all accounts, Dave Nonis really wanted to get Luongo, and if anything, the Leafs were the only team that wanted any part of Luongo last year.
That's a whole different thread, but thanks for the input

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