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Kulemin to Pittsburgh

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:37 PM
  #51
vipernsx
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Kulemin to St. Louis for Halak and a 2nd!

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11-04-2013, 10:47 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Flavour View Post
Kulemin for Jokinen and Niskanen, maybe since the center depth is so pathetic right now.
Unless Toronto is added, that's way too much.

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11-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Not to Toronto so that conversation could end there
Seeing how JJ can play C (and is a good fill-in) or wing, I wouldn't say that (that Kulie > JJ).

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11-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #54
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Seeing how JJ can play C (and is a good fill-in) or wing, I wouldn't say that (that Kulie > JJ).
JJ passed through waivers earlier this year. If that isn't an indication of his value then I don't know what is.

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Old
11-04-2013, 11:13 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Kulemin would bring back one or the other, not both. Hell, I'd be inclined to say that Jokinen has more value than Kulemin.
Jokinen was not treated fairly in his last season with Carolina but I think his struggles there make him no more valuable than Kulemin, even with the center versatility.

I imagine Pittsburgh would be willing to gamble that Kulemin would see instant success with Malkin and re-sign. Maybe, maybe not. I don't see Niskanen as being particularly valuable either way and not in the Pens future.

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:11 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
JJ passed through waivers earlier this year. If that isn't an indication of his value then I don't know what is.
At that point Jokinen had been relegated to a limited role by Carolina because his style of play didn't mesh well with Kirk Muller's system. No one in the league had seen a particularly productive Jokinen since 2010-11. As soon as Pittsburgh picked him up to play as a fill-in 2C to cover for the Crosby jaw injury, however, his production increased dramatically. He's been clicking at a great pace ever since he started seeing top 6 minutes again, regardless of who he's been playing with - 14G, 7A in 25 games since the Pens acquired him. Providing he keeps this pace up (which I don't think is unreasonable to assume, considering he's playing with Evgeni Malkin) his value is probably not significantly different from Kulemin's, especially because Carolina is still picking up part of his salary.

I don't think the Pens would move him to get Kulemin - it seems like a largely lateral move, and the idea of adding Niskanen as a salary dump seems like a bit of a waste. I think there are better ways to fix the Pens problems right now, and Toronto can probably find a center as a trade target that won't require them to move Kulemin.

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:12 AM
  #57
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No thanks. Rather look internally than get ripped off.

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:17 AM
  #58
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
JJ passed through waivers earlier this year. If that isn't an indication of his value then I don't know what is.
You might want to double check your info before making a judgement call.

Jussi Jokinen never went through waivers this year. Carolina placed him on waivers in March last year. Finding no takers they traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary. Since then he has 14g and 24 pts in 32 games for the Penguins (reg season & PO).

Jokinen has been great for the Penguins. Acquiring Kulemin would be getting more speed into the lineup, and giving Malkin someone like Kunitz who can bang and crash along the boards and retrieve the puck.

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:29 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
You might want to double check your info before making a judgement call.

Jussi Jokinen never went through waivers this year. Carolina placed him on waivers in March last year. Finding no takers they traded him to Pittsburgh and retained salary. Since then he has 14g and 24 pts in 32 games for the Penguins (reg season & PO).

Jokinen has been great for the Penguins. Acquiring Kulemin would be getting more speed into the lineup, and giving Malkin someone like Kunitz who can bang and crash along the boards and retrieve the puck.
I cry uncle. Lots of Pens fans weren't enamored of my 1 for 1 Jokinen for Kulemin suggestion. Here's why:

Jussi Jokinen has been a Penguin for 25 games. In those 25 games, he's got 14 goals and 7 assists averaging 15 minutes a night.

In his last 121 games, Kulemin has 14 goals and 37 assists.

So, simple math: The get assists at the same pace but Jokinen scores goals at 5X the pace. And, FYI for anyone who wants to say 'but he plays with Malkin', he scored 7 goals and had 4 assists in 10 games last year centering a 2nd line of Morrow and Dupuis while Crosby was out.

Jokinen is a legit 2nd line center. Not a guy you want doing that duty on a playoff caliber team, but definitely someone with real short term value if you need him centering your 2nd or 3rd line for a few months. And, he's someone with lineup versatility. Not a shutdown guy, but someone who can play C and W and minutes as injuries dictate.

Now, the reason to take the gamble on Kulemin is two fold. One, a fit for Malkin. Two, there would be a chance of resigning Kulemin at the end of the year, while Jokinen is going to walk.

Conversely, the Leafs have been winning without Kulemin but need some short term help at center that legitimately can center a 2nd line.

Leaving aside whether one personally would choose to do it, I did think it was a logical idea. Wrong forum for that . . .

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:32 AM
  #60
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Why do people want to put Kulemin with Malkin when he's the prototypical Crosby winger that the Pens are always looking for and can never seem to find

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:33 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Flavour View Post
Jokinen was not treated fairly in his last season with Carolina but I think his struggles there make him no more valuable than Kulemin, even with the center versatility.

I imagine Pittsburgh would be willing to gamble that Kulemin would see instant success with Malkin and re-sign. Maybe, maybe not. I don't see Niskanen as being particularly valuable either way and not in the Pens future.
Jokinen's MO in Tampa and Carolina was that he kills it for a new team for a time but eventually wears out his welcome. He's definitely been killing it statistically for the Penguins, going at about a 65 point season pace as a Penguin. The goals per game pace would rank 4th on the Leafs. The points per game pace would rank 6th.

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:34 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Why do people want to put Kulemin with Malkin when he's the prototypical Crosby winger that the Pens are always looking for and can never seem to find
Crosby already plays with guys who play like Kulemin, one of whom would be Kunitz.

Crosby needs a winger with some bloody offensive talent. Malkin and Neal need a guy like Kunitz was for them two years ago.

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Old
11-05-2013, 01:20 AM
  #63
Jules Winnfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Why do people want to put Kulemin with Malkin when he's the prototypical Crosby winger that the Pens are always looking for and can never seem to find
As long as Dan Bylsma is coach, Crosby will always play with Kunitz and Dupuis as long as they are healthy.

We could have Ovechkin and Corey Perry on the team and he'd play them on the 3rd line, defense, or at backup goalie

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Old
11-05-2013, 01:32 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
JJ passed through waivers earlier this year. If that isn't an indication of his value then I don't know what is.
Lol, thats your diss to Jokinen?

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Old
11-05-2013, 01:33 AM
  #65
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The leafs are likely a playoff team this year and while we will likely lose Kulemin in the summer due to cap reasons we would like to keep Kulemin for a playoff run. Unless you watch Toronto games consistentley you don't no how valuable he is... He's every bit as good as Bolland Clarkson. He's our best defensive forward, he is just to valuable in the playoffs to send packing. He can play in the top 6 and create space (great board work, very fast, good shot) for his line mates or be a force on the 3rd line. Realistically Kulemin is just one of those players you don't move unless you absolutely see a fit and I don't see one here.

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Old
11-05-2013, 07:22 AM
  #66
leaflover
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Kulemin to Pittsburgh?

Is this the most regular proposal in HF history? I don't visit HF very often anymore yet can't remember the last time I did so without seeing this notion on page 1 of trade rumors.
Leafs need more Kulemins, not less.

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Old
11-05-2013, 07:40 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Niskanen doesn't fit a need here. Orpik does. He'd certainly be the guy Nonis would target.
As a PIT fan, he is by far the first piece I'd move. He does not fit in this system very well due to his inability with the puck. Pens have to get younger on D. You will be starting your own "Value of Orpik" threads though in about 1-2 years. He is still an elite hitter though, which seems to be highly valued in TOR.

Orpik is yours for a 2nd + Kul.

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