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Old
11-04-2013, 08:54 PM
  #26
Dying Alive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
He's the best goaltending prospect in the league and has the potential to be a franchise guy, I think you're selling him quite short.
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
1.61 GAA .952 save % as a rookie, literally carrying his AHL team....won on every single level he has played....he is overrated for sure.
I don't want to speak for the OP but Gibson is from Pittsburgh so we're quite familiar with him. In fact I'd guess that's at least part of the reason he was included in the proposal, trying to bring a hometown guy back home.

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11-04-2013, 08:58 PM
  #27
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I don't know why any Pens fan would make a proposal involving Letang.

Not only is it goofy to want to trade a 26 year old perennial Norris contender, his HF value is skewed low because people think he's terrible defensively.

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11-04-2013, 09:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
Saying the Ducks should make the trade is not the same thing as saying that maniacal laughter at being offered a Norris candidate and one of the best offensive D in the league, a big young D who should be in the NHL but is stuck in the A due to waiver rules and a G prospect that is admittedly basically a throw-in for some good young players and prospects who have never played a game in the NHL is way over the top. Nowhere did I give an opinion on whether or not it made sense for the Ducks.

I wasn't *expecting* any particular response as I didn't post the thread. My comment was simply that the LOLZ responses were over the top, and my opinion on that stands.
I'm responding to dismissive ******** like calling Fowler a 'good young player'. He's the top defenseman on a top 3 NHL team. He's not just like Palmieri, even if he's a year younger.

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11-04-2013, 09:06 PM
  #29
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Am I the only one who notices that Fowler is atrocious defensively? He's completely overrated because of his draft position. Pens fans complain about Letang's defensive short-comings but Fowler would make everyone wish for Letang back. Letang has his problems but at least he is elite offensively(except hitting the net on the PP) but Fowler is Jack Johnson 2.0 IF he's lucky. The rest of the deal can be argued for sure. I keep hearing about Gibson but I admittedly don't know much about him...Jarry is only included because he's a recent 2nd round pick.

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11-04-2013, 09:07 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Penguins trade Letang, Despres and Jarry/Murray

Ducks trade Fowler, Palmieri, Gibson and a 2014 1st

What needs added on either side to balance this?
This is really bad for the Penguins. We're not (and shouldn't be) trading Letang. Gibson and a first is nice and all but does nothing to help us right now. Essentially we're downgrading our defense for futures and a winger that wouldn't be played where he should be. That's terrible for a team in win now mode.

Not to mention it makes absolutely no sense for the Ducks.

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't know why any Pens fan would make a proposal involving Letang.

Not only is it goofy to want to trade a 26 year old perennial Norris contender, his HF value is skewed low because people think he's terrible defensively.
And this.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm responding to dismissive ******** like calling Fowler a 'good young player'. He's the top defenseman on a top 3 NHL team. He's not just like Palmieri, even if he's a year younger.
Well if you take a "good young player" as "dismissive ********" you're looking for an insult that just isn't there. What would you prefer I called him? I didn't compare him to Palmieri either.

Fine. If it makes it more palatable I'll say he's an awesome young defenseman on a very good team (sorry, I'm not calling anyone a "top 3 NHL team" this early in the season - I wouldn't call the Pens a top 4 NHL team at this point either). It's still ridiculous to heehaw about including those very very good players in a package that centers around a guy who is consistently either a Norris nominee or in the discussion and consistently among the top D scorers in the league, and who is signed for the next 8 years as if the OP had offered Dustin Jeffrey, Deryk Engelland and a 4th rounder. I've already made it clear that I think this trade is pointless, so it's not like I'm trying to sway anyone around to my way of thinking by diminishing the Ducks players. I have no horse in this race.

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11-04-2013, 09:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
Well if you take a "good young player" as "dismissive ********" you're looking for an insult that just isn't there. What would you prefer I called him? I didn't compare him to Palmieri either.

Fine. If it makes it more palatable I'll say he's an awesome young defenseman on a very good team (sorry, I'm not calling anyone a "top 3 NHL team" this early in the season - I wouldn't call the Pens a top 4 NHL team at this point either). It's still ridiculous to heehaw about including those very very good players in a package that centers around a guy who is consistently either a Norris nominee or in the discussion and consistently among the top D scorers in the league, and who is signed for 8 the next 8 years as if the OP had offered Dustin Jeffrey, Deryk Engelland and a 4th rounder. I've already made it clear that I think this trade is pointless, so it's not like I'm trying to sway anyone around to my way of thinking by diminishing the Ducks players. I have no horse in this race.
He was a top pairing defenseman on a top 3 team last year, too.

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11-04-2013, 09:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
Am I the only one who notices that Fowler is atrocious defensively? He's completely overrated because of his draft position. Pens fans complain about Letang's defensive short-comings but Fowler would make everyone wish for Letang back. Letang has his problems but at least he is elite offensively(except hitting the net on the PP) but Fowler is Jack Johnson 2.0 IF he's lucky. The rest of the deal can be argued for sure. I keep hearing about Gibson but I admittedly don't know much about him...Jarry is only included because he's a recent 2nd round pick.
Let me ask you a question and i'm not trying to be rude, but have you even bothered to watch the ducks play at all this season?

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11-04-2013, 09:19 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
Am I the only one who notices that Fowler is atrocious defensively? He's completely overrated because of his draft position. Pens fans complain about Letang's defensive short-comings but Fowler would make everyone wish for Letang back. Letang has his problems but at least he is elite offensively(except hitting the net on the PP) but Fowler is Jack Johnson 2.0 IF he's lucky. The rest of the deal can be argued for sure. I keep hearing about Gibson but I admittedly don't know much about him...Jarry is only included because he's a recent 2nd round pick.
You just flat out haven't seen Fowler lately then, because he's not only our top defenseman right now, but he's our top -shutdown- defenseman.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
You just flat out haven't seen Fowler lately then, because he's not only our top defenseman right now, but he's our top -shutdown- defenseman.
Well i'd give that to Bryan Allen but at worst Fowler is next

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11-04-2013, 09:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
He was a top pairing defenseman on a top 3 team last year, too.
OK good. I don't understand why you're trying to convince me that he's a very good player when I never said he wasn't. And it still doesn't make it a laugher to include him as part a package trade for someone who was also a top pairing defenseman on a top 3 team last year and was nominated for the Norris.

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11-04-2013, 09:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
Am I the only one who notices that Fowler is atrocious defensively? He's completely overrated because of his draft position. Pens fans complain about Letang's defensive short-comings but Fowler would make everyone wish for Letang back. Letang has his problems but at least he is elite offensively(except hitting the net on the PP) but Fowler is Jack Johnson 2.0 IF he's lucky. The rest of the deal can be argued for sure. I keep hearing about Gibson but I admittedly don't know much about him...Jarry is only included because he's a recent 2nd round pick.
You have literally zero idea what you're talking about. Absolutely zero. Zilch. None.

Fowler is our shutdown defenseman at the moment. He's the one on the ice in every defensive situation where the game is on the line. He's facing the toughest competition, and he's doing a damned good job of it. Stop spreading ignorance.

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11-04-2013, 09:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
I don't want to speak for the OP but Gibson is from Pittsburgh so we're quite familiar with him. In fact I'd guess that's at least part of the reason he was included in the proposal, trying to bring a hometown guy back home.
Yeah, most Pens fans I've seen are familiar with him, but that guy was openly asking if we valued Gibson too much and what we saw in him. If a guy has to ask, I'm guessing he doesn't have much of a clue.

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11-04-2013, 09:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by KEEROLE Vatanen View Post
Let me ask you a question and i'm not trying to be rude, but have you even bothered to watch the ducks play at all this season?
I've seen several(not all) Ducks games this year and I'm just not impressed. I like the Ducks as a team but not Fowler. It's just my opinion, but I think he is severely overrated. he is just another Jack Johnson...flashes of brilliance that just leave you wanting more.

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11-04-2013, 09:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
You have literally zero idea what you're talking about. Absolutely zero. Zilch. None.

Fowler is our shutdown defenseman at the moment. He's the one on the ice in every defensive situation where the game is on the line. He's facing the toughest competition, and he's doing a damned good job of it. Stop spreading ignorance.
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine I guess.

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11-04-2013, 09:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Yeah, most Pens fans I've seen are familiar with him, but that guy was openly asking if we valued Gibson too much and what we saw in him. If a guy has to ask, I'm guessing he doesn't have much of a clue.
Yep, if I were the Ducks I absolutely wouldn't trade him until they see what he can do at the NHL level. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him traded to the Pens, but I'll be rooting for him even if he stays with the Ducks just because it's great to see Pittsburgh starting to produce some really good NHL'ers. The generation whose parents started putting them into hockey as kids because of Mario is starting to churn out some really talented local kids like Gibson, Brandon Saad and JT Miller.

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11-04-2013, 09:28 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Yeah, most Pens fans I've seen are familiar with him, but that guy was openly asking if we valued Gibson too much and what we saw in him. If a guy has to ask, I'm guessing he doesn't have much of a clue.
I wouldn't have asked for Gibson in the OP if I didn't know what he was capable of. Asking about him being overvalued by fans doesn't mean that I don't have a clue about him. I didn't ask "why is he so overvalued", not did I ask what you saw in him. Again, people make up stuff here to piss themselves off. All I asked was that if Gibson was the big reason that this made people mad. But whatever, continue reading what you want to read.

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11-04-2013, 09:28 PM
  #43
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I'd like to know what Palms and Fasth would cost, Needs to be cap manageable.

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11-04-2013, 09:28 PM
  #44
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I think people need to realize this is more than just pure value. Letang has a ton of value, but I don't think people are taking Anaheim's cap situation into consideration, or how much they are leaning on young talent to help fill the gaps. Shaking things up in this manner and taking on a contract like Letang's, just doesn't seem particularly intelligent for the Ducks.

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11-04-2013, 09:30 PM
  #45
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I've seen several(not all) Ducks games this year and I'm just not impressed. I like the Ducks as a team but not Fowler. It's just my opinion, but I think he is severely overrated. he is just another Jack Johnson...flashes of brilliance that just leave you wanting more.
You're entitled to your opinion, but the results say differently. When the coach of one of the best teams in the league is leaning on Fowler in a shutdown role, and doing it successfully, saying that he's atrocious defensively is asinine. It's as simple as that. If he was that bad defensively, it would be obvious. He's playing with Ben freaking Lovejoy as his D partner, and the kid is seeing the toughest D responsibilities on the team, and it's working.

I respect your opinion, but it isn't at all grounded in reality. Not even a little. It just suggests you've allowed your dislike of Fowler color everything about his game.

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11-04-2013, 09:32 PM
  #46
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You're entitled to your opinion, but the results say differently. When the coach of one of the best teams in the league is leaning on Fowler in a shutdown role, and doing it successfully, saying that he's atrocious defensively is asinine. It's as simple as that. If he was that bad defensively, it would be obvious. He's playing with Ben freaking Lovejoy as his D partner, and the kid is seeing the toughest D responsibilities on the team.

I respect your opinion, but it isn't at all grounded in reality. Not even a little. It just suggests you've allowed your dislike of Fowler color everything about his game.
I don't respect an opinion that's not founded in reality. You're being too generous. It's just completely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever.

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11-04-2013, 09:33 PM
  #47
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I don't know why any Pens fan would make a proposal involving Letang.

Not only is it goofy to want to trade a 26 year old perennial Norris contender, his HF value is skewed low because people think he's terrible defensively.
No, not terrible, but far from a stellar shutdown D. I want to move him, as we're paying a premium for someone who's not a shutdown D, and isn't a PPQB. So now in addition to paying him 7.5m, we need to pay someone to fill both of those other roles. Then we hope that the PPQB is good enough defensively that they can play regular minutes.

Really the only good thing Letang brings is is offensive instincts (which he does have in spades), his skating and his right hand shot. All of which I'm sure we could get for a lot less.

Honestly if we had the right assets coming back, I'd be content with someone like Franson taking a good chunk of his icetime.


But then that's far from the popular opinion. I'm okay with that.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:35 PM
  #48
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OK good. I don't understand why you're trying to convince me that he's a very good player when I never said he wasn't. And it still doesn't make it a laugher to include him as part a package trade for someone who was also a top pairing defenseman on a top 3 team last year and was nominated for the Norris.
Your first foray into this thread led off with you saying that Letang was greater than any other player in the offer by a significant margin. He's ahead of Fowler, no doubt about that, but I think you are really selling Fowler short, which is probably why you don't understand why so many Ducks fans were laughing at it. Despres is a long way from making up the difference here.

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11-04-2013, 09:36 PM
  #49
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I wouldn't have asked for Gibson in the OP if I didn't know what he was capable of. Asking about him being overvalued by fans doesn't mean that I don't have a clue about him. I didn't ask "why is he so overvalued", not did I ask what you saw in him. Again, people make up stuff here to piss themselves off.
Sorry, you implied Ducks fans were overvaluing him(or undervaluing Letang, still though), I'd say that's close enough. For a guy like Gibson, I don't think you can overvalue that kind of prospect. Not after all he's proven, not at this stage of his career.

I know plenty know all about him, but I can't help but think the narrative on him would be different if he was property of another team.

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11-04-2013, 09:38 PM
  #50
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You're entitled to your opinion, but the results say differently. When the coach of one of the best teams in the league is leaning on Fowler in a shutdown role, and doing it successfully, saying that he's atrocious defensively is asinine. It's as simple as that. If he was that bad defensively, it would be obvious. He's playing with Ben freaking Lovejoy as his D partner, and the kid is seeing the toughest D responsibilities on the team, and it's working.

I respect your opinion, but it isn't at all grounded in reality. Not even a little. It just suggests you've allowed your dislike of Fowler color everything about his game.
Maybe you're right...I've formed an opinion of him that just can't be shaken but when you compare him to playing with Ben Lovejoy(as you said) it's not hard to stand out as Lovejoy is a 5-7 defenseman. Like I said, I haven't seen every Ducks game (or every game for any team for that matter) but I just have an opinion of him and Pens fans would miss Letang and his "mistakes" if the two were the main trade pieces.

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