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Old
11-04-2013, 10:38 PM
  #51
Sojourn
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I don't respect an opinion that's not founded in reality. You're being too generous. It's just completely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever.
I guess I should say I respect his right to an opinion.

The opinion itself, no. That part makes absolutely no sense, based on what we've been seeing.

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11-04-2013, 10:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
I'd like to know what Palms and Fasth would cost, Needs to be cap manageable.
Fasth isn't available unless Hiller gets signed. Otherwise we would be looking at Andersen and Gibson next year and while that will be a great tandem in a few years next year is too soon. Also with our D getting healthy and fowards getting injured Palmieri is needed too much to trade him.

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11-04-2013, 10:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
Maybe you're right...I've formed an opinion of him that just can't be shaken but when you compare him to playing with Ben Lovejoy(as you said) it's not hard to stand out as Lovejoy is a 5-7 defenseman. Like I said, I haven't seen every Ducks game (or every game for any team for that matter) but I just have an opinion of him and Pens fans would miss Letang and his "mistakes" if the two were the main trade pieces.
He stands out for his contributions to our team, not from the comparison of who he's partnered with. He has been Johnny-on-the-spot for us nearly every night.

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11-04-2013, 10:41 PM
  #54
Jules Winnfield
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't know why any Pens fan would make a proposal involving Letang.

Not only is it goofy to want to trade a 26 year old perennial Norris contender, his HF value is skewed low because people think he's terrible defensively.
No ****. I wouldn't trade Letang alone for that return. If you are dealing someone like Letang, you are asking for someone like Corey Perry back.

Just atrocious.

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11-04-2013, 10:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I don't respect an opinion that's not founded in reality. You're being too generous. It's just completely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever.
I guess you take every opinion as fact written by fans of each player/team?

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11-04-2013, 10:43 PM
  #56
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Guess the Ducks don't need a Norris finalist d-man.

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11-04-2013, 10:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
Guess the Ducks don't need a Norris finalist d-man.
I would love to have Letang on this team. But it isn't worth the cost to the Ducks, and especially not this overpayment.

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11-04-2013, 10:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
I guess you take every opinion as fact written by fans of each player/team?
You're pretty off base in your observation of Fowler though. He's legit. The idea that he's bad defensively stems from the HF idea that all OFD are bad defensively, which isn't even remotely true.

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11-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JJM777 View Post
Maybe you're right...I've formed an opinion of him that just can't be shaken but when you compare him to playing with Ben Lovejoy(as you said) it's not hard to stand out as Lovejoy is a 5-7 defenseman. Like I said, I haven't seen every Ducks game (or every game for any team for that matter) but I just have an opinion of him and Pens fans would miss Letang and his "mistakes" if the two were the main trade pieces.
No, I didn't compare him to Ben Lovejoy, and I didn't say he stands out versus Ben Lovejoy. I said that Cam Fowler, the guy who you say is atrociously defensively, is playing the toughest D minutes in a shutdown role with Ben Lovejoy.

In other words, we aren't talking about a kid who is being protected by his D partner. Lovejoy isn't really capable of protecting anyone, in that sense. He tries hard, and some of his success comes in knowing his own limitations, but Lovejoy is clearly the beneficiary of playing with Cam Fowler. If you take the next logical step in that scenario, you've got Cam Fowler anchoring Anaheim's shutdown pairing, and doing a successful job of it.

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11-04-2013, 10:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
Guess the Ducks don't need a Norris finalist d-man.
It's just not that simple. For what Letang costs and the price to get him, he really doesn't fill any needs the Ducks have. Fowler's been great defensively for them, and truly is the #1 on this team, so there wouldn't be a massive upgrade to the current roster. Definitely not one that would justify giving up a talented young scoring winger on a sweetheart deal, the best goaltending prospect in the world and a first round pick.

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11-04-2013, 10:47 PM
  #61
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I've been one of fowlers biggest critics on the ducks forum, because offensively he has not been doing enough but I cannot say enough about his improvement defensively which also includes leading the breakouts out of the defensive zone which he is exceptional at.

if you want to criticize him for anything start with his performance on the PP

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
Guess the Ducks don't need a Norris finalist d-man.
Hey woah Steve Holt, none of us were saying that. (by the way, nice to see Moncton repped on here. I'm in Sackville)

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11-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by KEEROLE Vatanen View Post
I've been one of fowlers biggest critics on the ducks forum, because offensively he has not been doing enough but I cannot say enough about his improvement defensively which also includes leading the breakouts out of the defensive zone which he is exceptional at.

if you want to criticize him for anything start with his performance on the PP
Are you talking about Letang or Fowler? You just described my thoughts on Letang to the very last detail.

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Your first foray into this thread led off with you saying that Letang was greater than any other player in the offer by a significant margin. He's ahead of Fowler, no doubt about that, but I think you are really selling Fowler short, which is probably why you don't understand why so many Ducks fans were laughing at it. Despres is a long way from making up the difference here.
And yet, instead of saying that and making it a productive discussion, the responses were "hahahahaha." That is what I took issue with. Not Fowler, not the proposal (which, again, I wouldn't have done anyway solely because I don't think the Pens are or should be interested in trading Letang). I still don't think the proposal was that far off that it warranted maniacal laughter, but different strokes and whatnot.

And I still think that you're looking for an insult that isn't there with regards to Fowler. Saying Letang is the best player in the deal by a significant margin isn't meant as a slight to Fowler. There is a very short list of D in the league I'd rather have in a Pens uniform than Letang for a variety of reasons. And conversely, I think Despres gets sold short as a prospect just because he is currently in the AHL. The only reason he's there instead of with the Pens is because he was the only one caught up in the logjam who didn't have to pass through waivers. He's spent time with the Pens, including in the playoffs, and looked really impressive. 6'4" puck moving d-men who can play a physical game, make smart plays, are composed and calm and look pretty good on the PP aren't exactly surplus in the NHL. At times in the playoffs last year he was the Pens best D-man, though admittedly that is damning with faint praise.

tl;dr, my entire response to this thread was prompted by the abrasive and unproductive replies as opposed to any real interest in the proposal itself. It seems like nearly everyone is happy with the players they currently have, so hooray.

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11-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
And yet, instead of saying that and making it a productive discussion, the responses were "hahahahaha." That is what I took issue with. Not Fowler, not the proposal (which, again, I wouldn't have done anyway solely because I don't think the Pens are or should be interested in trading Letang). I still don't think the proposal was that far off that it warranted maniacal laughter, but different strokes and whatnot.

And I still think that you're looking for an insult that isn't there with regards to Fowler. Saying Letang is the best player in the deal by a significant margin isn't meant as a slight to Fowler. There is a very short list of D in the league I'd rather have in a Pens uniform than Letang for a variety of reasons. And conversely, I think Despres gets sold short as a prospect just because he is currently in the AHL. The only reason he's there instead of with the Pens is because he was the only one caught up in the logjam who didn't have to pass through waivers. He's spent time with the Pens, including in the playoffs, and looked really impressive. 6'4" puck moving d-men who can play a physical game, make smart plays, are composed and calm and look pretty good on the PP aren't exactly surplus in the NHL. At times in the playoffs last year he was the Pens best D-man, though admittedly that is damning with faint praise.

tl;dr, my entire response to this thread was prompted by the abrasive and unproductive replies as opposed to any real interest in the proposal itself. It seems like nearly everyone is happy with the players they currently have, so hooray.
You're unlikely to see much interest in Despres from Ducks fans, because most of us are skeptical, and I'd say rightly so, that he'd have any more luck cracking our roster than he is in Pittsburgh. We're dealing with our own log jam.

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11-04-2013, 10:57 PM
  #66
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You're pretty off base in your observation of Fowler though. He's legit. The idea that he's bad defensively stems from the HF idea that all OFD are bad defensively, which isn't even remotely true.
That's why it is an opinion. I mentioned nothing about him being an OFD ... I just said from the "several times" I've seen him I just didn't like him...I do think he is atrocious defensively and I'll stand by what I said but it's just my opinion. If you disagree(as a few of you do) fine. The whole point of my post was Fowler would make Pens fans miss Letang. (Not including the other pieces of the trade)

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11-04-2013, 11:02 PM
  #67
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ugh

Pens aren't trading Tang

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11-04-2013, 11:02 PM
  #68
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You listed two of Anaheim's locks in one move. Gibson is a top tier goalie prospect, no this is not enough.

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11-04-2013, 11:04 PM
  #69
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I don't want to speak for the OP but Gibson is from Pittsburgh so we're quite familiar with him. In fact I'd guess that's at least part of the reason he was included in the proposal, trying to bring a hometown guy back home.
If we're talking about bringing hometown boys back home then we can talk about Bennett. Even then I don't think I would trade Gibson for Bennett

Pitt isn't trading Bennett
Ana isn't trading Gibson.

Letang is a great player don't get me wrong. But Gibby just isn't available. Even for my Fantasy of a SoCal line. Can't see it happening.

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11-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #70
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This one seems kind of obvious. Pens make out like bandits

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11-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You're unlikely to see much interest in Despres from Ducks fans, because most of us are skeptical, and I'd say rightly so, that he'd have any more luck cracking our roster than he is in Pittsburgh. We're dealing with our own log jam.
Totally fair point. Obviously this trade doesn't make sense for either side for a variety of reasons.

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11-04-2013, 11:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
Fasth isn't available unless Hiller gets signed. Otherwise we would be looking at Andersen and Gibson next year and while that will be a great tandem in a few years next year is too soon. Also with our D getting healthy and fowards getting injured Palmieri is needed too much to trade him.
Palmieri I can agree with but you telling me your going to roll with 3 goalies when Fasth returns from injury? Weird. :/

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11-04-2013, 11:57 PM
  #73
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No, not terrible, but far from a stellar shutdown D. I want to move him, as we're paying a premium for someone who's not a shutdown D, and isn't a PPQB. So now in addition to paying him 7.5m, we need to pay someone to fill both of those other roles. Then we hope that the PPQB is good enough defensively that they can play regular minutes.
He's the 2nd most productive defenseman in the league, and arguably the best offensive defenseman at ES in the league - that is where his value lies. We don't need him to be a stellar shutdown d, nor do we need to look outside for PPQB help since we have more than enough cost-controlled internal options if we choose to play them there instead.

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Really the only good thing Letang brings is is offensive instincts (which he does have in spades), his skating and his right hand shot. All of which I'm sure we could get for a lot less.
What he has is dynamic skating, talent and production at ES, where we would be able to get exactly nowhere else. That's besides his physical play and underrated defensive game.

Letang's poor Boston series and slow return to form this season have clouded his value here.

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Honestly if we had the right assets coming back, I'd be content with someone like Franson taking a good chunk of his icetime.
Franson's the same age as Letang and hasn't proven a damn thing. The guy has a career-high 29 points, for crying out loud.

He's going to make bank next season with a very small track record though. I sure don't want to be the one giving it to him.

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11-05-2013, 12:06 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You're unlikely to see much interest in Despres from Ducks fans, because most of us are skeptical, and I'd say rightly so, that he'd have any more luck cracking our roster than he is in Pittsburgh. We're dealing with our own log jam.
Despres earned a roster spot out of camp last season. And eventually caused Lovejoy to be traded. Only reasons he's not playing in the NHL right now are that we kept Niskanen, signed Scuderi and Maatta had a monster camp.

I don't think one can make an argument for Ben Lovejoy being a better NHL D-man than Despres.

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11-05-2013, 12:09 AM
  #75
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Despres earned a roster spot out of camp last season. And eventually caused Lovejoy to be traded. Only reasons he's not playing in the NHL right now are that we kept Niskanen, signed Scuderi and Maatta had a monster camp.

I don't think one can make an argument for Ben Lovejoy being a better NHL D-man than Despres.
Then I think that you may be guilty of living in the past. He has done very well since leaving Pittsburgh.

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