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Ridiculous fan rationale

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Old
11-06-2013, 08:15 PM
  #76
BlueDream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
This terrible rationale right here. "Advanced stats said this would happen but because it hasn't after X games, advanced stats are dumb."

It's a fact that the Avalanche will slow down unless they're the greatest NHL team of all time.
And this is terrible rationale right here.

Advanced stats don't say anything, it's just people that think they are fact.

Also you are dense if you don't understand what I'm saying. "Even if they finish first place, they won't go 12-1 in each 13 game stretch so that's slowing down!"

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Old
11-06-2013, 08:23 PM
  #77
rumrokh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCrazedMadman View Post
This is true over all sports, but "Home vs Away" games. Especially when they talk about "They are way better at home than playing away".....either you're good or not, it doesnt matter what building you play in, do the fans cheering them on really affect the professional athletes emotions so much that it impacts the way they play? I dont think so. Travel time too, its not like they're getting off the plane and jumping on the ice.
Yes, it really does. Comfort and morale are significant in every sport. You can tell when a team gains momentum during a game or when the guys are fragile and start running around after just one goal against.

As for home & away, it's not just the fans cheering, it's all kinds of factors. Regular vs. irregular schedule, travel, not sleeping in the same bed, being with or without your family, having the first or last line change, having the faceoff disadvantage which can lead to just one possession that wins or loses a game, etc. Yes, they are professionals, but they're also human. These things matter.

"Good or not" is useless reduction. More than half the teams in the league make the playoffs and it comes down to the last game or two of the regular season for several teams every year. The differences among those bubble teams is frequently minuscule. A little bit of luck, a little bit of gas left in the tank, or being able to make the last change...you cannot discount any of it.
Plus, in any given match-up, the team with the better record wins barely over half of the time. If "good or not" were remotely true, that would not be the case.


Last edited by rumrokh: 11-06-2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old
11-06-2013, 08:27 PM
  #78
sharks9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
And this is terrible rationale right here.

Advanced stats don't say anything, it's just people that think they are fact.

Also you are dense if you don't understand what I'm saying. "Even if they finish first place, they won't go 12-1 in each 13 game stretch so that's slowing down!"
Of course they do, they're not perfect but they are definitely useful.

What do you think slowing down is?

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Old
11-06-2013, 08:42 PM
  #79
BuckyDornster
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
I get frustrated with people that can't understand how simple inflation, rising caps and free agency status effect cap hits.

ie
5 million cap hit signed 5 years ago is going to be a 7 million caphit signed now.

or
Better player coming off ELC is going to get payed less then slightly worse player as a UFA.
Oh my lord this. THIS. THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
I hear it so often on local radio"
"OH MY GAWD DEFENCEMAN X SIGNED FOR 4.5 MILLION!"

Well yeah, guess what, that second pairing guy is worth 3-4.5 million. The really upper tier probably get 5.0. Get over it and find a way to generate revenue or you're going to be left behind come playoff time and so on. I mean, I feel genuinely bad for some markets that are fighting to gain new fans and so on, but still. The floor is there and you should be able to meet it.

Other fan rationale I can't stand:

"My player improved so he'll keep improving until he's superman."
Hmmm, maybe not? Maybe improvement and player maturation doesn't always go in a straight line?

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Old
11-06-2013, 09:03 PM
  #80
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by Buckets and Gloves View Post
More points = better player

so stupid and ignores so many facets of the game.
And the inverse is equally dumb:
"Less points = better two-way player"

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Old
11-06-2013, 09:23 PM
  #81
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The grass is always greener syndrome. Some one else would be soooo much better because they aren't playing for us, trade so and so for so and so, blah blah blah (just venture to the Panthers board). It hurts my eyes.

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Old
11-06-2013, 11:03 PM
  #82
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Intangibles.

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Old
11-06-2013, 11:08 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
When people attribute the refs as being biased if there is a large disparity in penalties during a game.


Exactly what I was coming in here to post. Seems to me like every ref is out to get every team

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Old
11-07-2013, 12:03 AM
  #84
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"Player X is better than player Y because player X has better Corsi."

"but player Y won Y won the scoring title."

"CORSI!!!!!!!!"

"But player Y was MVP"

"BUT THE CORSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Player Y is Bobby Orr"

"CORSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Old
11-07-2013, 12:17 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Any and all speculation about captaincy, leadership, and intangibles.
"Fans" that admit they have never played hockey but ridicule the importance of leadership and more importantly intangibles. How in the world would they know one way or the other?

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Old
11-07-2013, 12:26 AM
  #86
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"This guy was a major part of the most recent Stanley Cup winning team so I'll immediately rank him as top 3 at his position and take him over other guys who have proven to be better over a long period of time."

"This guy is so clutch and takes his game to another level when it matters most."

The latter is the lamest sports cliche in the world.

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Old
11-07-2013, 12:41 AM
  #87
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You have to have played hockey to be a knowledgeable fan.

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Old
11-07-2013, 07:25 AM
  #88
SuburbanRhythm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mant View Post
Intangibles.
Was going to limit it to "leadership", but yes, intangibles.

Typically used to make up the difference when comparing two players, and most believe one if clearly ahead of the other. Or conversely, use as a slight for "lacking leadership" when playing against their team, because it's easy to tell from the way a guy sits on the bench, or how you imagine he's acting in the locker room right now if he's a leader or not.

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Old
11-07-2013, 07:27 AM
  #89
SuburbanRhythm
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And as a Pens fan-

X would score (multiple of 10 over 30) goals next to Crosby.

Should said transaction occur-

Crosby is the only reason X scores (multiple of 5, somewhere around 25) goals.

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Old
11-07-2013, 07:48 AM
  #90
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It kills me when people compare contracts that were signed as a RFA with a contract signed as a UFA

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Old
11-07-2013, 08:02 AM
  #91
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When people rag on great offensive players for not being defensive stalwarts too. One of the most aggravating things on this site is when people claim that player X, who is an offensive dynamo, isn't as valuable as player Y who puts up 20 less points a season but can win a few faceoffs and backcheck.

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Old
11-07-2013, 08:18 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mant View Post
Intangibles.
This all day. This all night. This all freakin' year.


As a Sabres fan, I'd like to offer up:

"Money isn't an issue. We'll win a cup in three years because our owner isn't afraid to spend."

Talk about a sad and hard lesson to learn

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Old
11-07-2013, 08:19 AM
  #93
Frankie Spankie
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I never understood how people could come up with clear cut best players in the league or best player of all time. While I agree Crosby is arguably the best player in the league right now, I don't think he's the clear cut best. If anybody disagrees and actually posts logical reasons why, they just get bashed with no counterpoints brought up at all. Same with Gretzky, he's one of the best of all time, arguably the best, but he's not the clear cut best.

Also, other thing is people assume that since a player is "the best in the league," they're the best at every category. Sidney Crosby is apparently the best shooter, skater, playmaker, etc, to some people on these boards.

And one more -- Intangibles. Sorry, but an incredibly vague word means nothing.

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Old
11-07-2013, 08:34 AM
  #94
SuburbanRhythm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
When people rag on great offensive players for not being defensive stalwarts too. One of the most aggravating things on this site is when people claim that player X, who is an offensive dynamo, isn't as valuable as player Y who puts up 20 less points a season but can win a few faceoffs and backcheck.
Similar to this, but the "two-way" argument. Two way means just that, both offensively and defensively. Too often the argument for "two way" is more accurately "most balanced".

Being above average at both ends of the ice > being average defensively and fantastic offensively to lots of people.

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Old
11-07-2013, 08:51 AM
  #95
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The backpedalling that the hockey community at large has done over the Kessel trade is pretty hilarious.

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Old
11-07-2013, 09:05 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Oh and the hindsight 20/20 draft position problem...
Totally agree with this!

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Old
11-07-2013, 09:09 AM
  #97
Sundance
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"Player Y isn't as good because his teammates suck. Put him on a better team with better teammates and he'll be better."

"Player X only looks good because his teammates are so bad in contrast. On a better team with better teammates he wouldn't look as good."

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Old
11-07-2013, 09:22 AM
  #98
NewAgeOutlaw
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Love Datsyuk, but my biggest annoyance are the "well, he'd score 120 points a year if he played less defense/played for X team..." Before this year, it was "well, he'd score so much more in the no defense east."
For that matter, add on the whole, "the west is in a whole different league than the east" while it may be true that the west is better than the east and has been for a number of years now, it is not so pronounced a difference that the west is a completely higher level of competition. Also, your favorite western player would not score 20 or even 10 more points if they played in the east, stop it.

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Old
11-08-2013, 03:27 PM
  #99
octopi
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I forgot to mention nohter one, everyone's devotion to statistics

"Hey everyone, Ovechkin scored 50 goals in 50 games this year"= 1 million post thread about OMG amazing

"Hey everyone, OVechkin has 47 in 50 games over two seasons!" ="Meh"

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Old
11-08-2013, 04:08 PM
  #100
Mc5RingsAndABeer
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Great OP.

People put far too much stock into team accomplishments when judging a player. It happens in every sport, but it's especially horrendous in hockey.

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