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KHL 2013-2014 General Discussion - Part II

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Old
12-05-2013, 04:02 PM
  #76
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12-06-2013, 01:13 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
It is for Magnitka's top line and SKA could roll 3 lines of similar quality.

Also, most of the clubs in the league were pretty much at the same level for a few seasons already and for every club which improved (Donbass) you can find one which regressed (Traktor).

They averaged 2.21 points per game last year in the season which got Riga fired. Salak, Shypachyov, Kovalchuk, Ketov, Červenka and etc. arrived.. I think that warrants some improvement and this season they are averaging.. wait for it.. 2.20 points per game.

So what you are saying doesn't really explain anything. Unless you do think the rest of the league were pushovers last year and improved dramatically.
Is anyone going to explain how Kuznya managed to beat Dynamo and Ak Bars at away games or it doesn't matter, cause it's not about SKA?

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12-06-2013, 10:26 AM
  #78
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Is anyone going to explain how Kuznya managed to beat Dynamo and Ak Bars at away games or it doesn't matter, cause it's not about SKA?
Dinamo had like 10 injured players and Ak Bars woke up only then the score was already 4-2. Barulin wasn't exactly sharp either in that game. It was surprising but such things happen all the time and these are one time things, both Dinamo and Ak Bars bounced right back afterwards, no big deal. SKA, meanwhile, are simply bad at this moment for no good reason and that's concerning.

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12-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
Dinamo had like 10 injured players and Ak Bars woke up only then the score was already 4-2. Barulin wasn't exactly sharp either in that game. It was surprising but such things happen all the time and these are one time things, both Dinamo and Ak Bars bounced right back afterwards, no big deal. SKA, meanwhile, are simply bad at this moment for no good reason and that's concerning.
Simply bad? The haven't lost a game since November 18th. One lazy game game against an outsider doesn't make a streak bad.

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12-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #80
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Simply bad? The haven't lost a game since November 18th. One lazy game game against an outsider doesn't make a streak bad.
The results aren't everything. If you watch the games (I assume you do) you know that SKA's break-outs are terrible (pretty much non-existant, frankly) and their neutral zone isn't much of a challenge even for the worst of teams. And what about that power-play?

Possession-wise, SKA is, as I've said, simply bad. And even though possession isn't nearly as important in the KHL as it is in the NHL, still, good teams in both leagues manage to control the flow of the game for the most part. And that's something SKA is terrible at.

By the way, regarding the results, luck and weak competition obviously played a huge part.

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One other thing. I was against the smaller ice ever until this season but this is getting ridiculous. It looks like every-second game in the KHL is a shutout nowadays. Goalies have ridiculous numbers. Today's KHL matches averaged less than 3 goals per game. That stinks, frankly, it's really boring. So if KHL wants to compete with NHL in any way they have to address that to improve their on-ice product.

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12-06-2013, 07:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
The results aren't everything. If you watch the games (I assume you do) you know that SKA's break-outs are terrible (pretty much non-existant, frankly) and their neutral zone isn't much of a challenge even for the worst of teams. And what about that power-play?

Possession-wise, SKA is, as I've said, simply bad. And even though possession isn't nearly as important in the KHL as it is in the NHL, still, good teams in both leagues manage to control the flow of the game for the most part. And that's something SKA is terrible at.

By the way, regarding the results, luck and weak competition obviously played a huge part.

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One other thing. I was against the smaller ice ever until this season but this is getting ridiculous. It looks like every-second game in the KHL is a shutout nowadays. Goalies have ridiculous numbers. Today's KHL matches averaged less than 3 goals per game. That stinks, frankly, it's really boring. So if KHL wants to compete with NHL in any way they have to address that to improve their on-ice product.
You are right regarding SKA. That's why they were beaten the last two years by Dynamo Moscow in the playoffs.

Regarding small/big ice and goals scored. It's not the size of the ice that makes the difference but the way of playing the game. In the NHL you got many low scoring games aswell - often just 1-0 shootout wins or simple 1-0 after 60 minutes - while in leagues like German DEL there are many 8-10 goal games on the big ice.

Many KHL teams just play very destructive hockey and barely create opportunities...

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12-06-2013, 07:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
You are right regarding SKA. That's why they were beaten the last two years by Dynamo Moscow in the playoffs.

Regarding small/big ice and goals scored. It's not the size of the ice that makes the difference but the way of playing the game. In the NHL you got many low scoring games aswell - often just 1-0 shootout wins or simple 1-0 after 60 minutes - while in leagues like German DEL there are many 8-10 goal games on the big ice.

Many KHL teams just play very destructive hockey and barely create opportunities...
Puck control hockey (which many KHL clubs and Finnish and Swedish clubs and even national teams use) and big ice just doesn't produce entertaining hockey. I still remember how boring Sweden's games were on in the international stage over 20 years ago when their game plan consisted of trapping and puck control. I think Jukka Jalonen has tried with puck control at SKA because he and other current or former Finnish KHL coaches have said that aggressive forechecking just doesn't work in KHL rinks. Too much time and space plus players are unfamiliar with that style. Though Ville Nieminen said that while he was at Sibir, they caught a lot teams by surprise with aggressive forechecking but the better teams knew how to cope with it.


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12-06-2013, 10:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
Regarding small/big ice and goals scored. It's not the size of the ice that makes the difference but the way of playing the game. In the NHL you got many low scoring games aswell - often just 1-0 shootout wins or simple 1-0 after 60 minutes - while in leagues like German DEL there are many 8-10 goal games on the big ice.

Many KHL teams just play very destructive hockey and barely create opportunities...
It's not the way of playing the game itself but the size of ice which dictates it. You can't play what you called "destructive hockey" on the NHL ice, that's why NHL adopted it to get out of dead puck era. Kings are a very destructive team which is all about system but they sure look a lot more entertaining than Loko.

And sure, you have low scoring games here and there but there is yet to be a 0-0 game in the NHL this season and 3 goalies lead the NHL with 3 shutouts meanwhile KHL has numerous goalies with 5 shutouts after around the same number of games played. Philadelphia Flyers is the most boring team of the NHL (to my hyge surprise, I might add), their games average 4.68 goals per. Loko takes the cake in the K with 3.6 goals per game. That's one goal difference and that's A LOT.

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
aggressive forechecking just doesn't work in KHL rinks. Too much time and space plus players are unfamiliar with that style. Though Vilel Nieminen said that while he was at Sibir, they caught a lot teams by surprise with aggressive forechecking but the better teams knew how cope with it.
Exactly. Teams don't just sit back because they want to be boring. They do that because it pays of. Medvescak, on the other hand, are 9-3-3-3 at home with pretty active forecheck.

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12-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
It's not the way of playing the game itself but the size of ice which dictates it. You can't play what you called "destructive hockey" on the NHL ice, that's why NHL adopted it to get out of dead puck era. Kings are a very destructive team which is all about system but they sure look a lot more entertaining than Loko.

And sure, you have low scoring games here and there but there is yet to be a 0-0 game in the NHL this season and 3 goalies lead the NHL with 3 shutouts meanwhile KHL has numerous goalies with 5 shutouts after around the same number of games played. Philadelphia Flyers is the most boring team of the NHL (to my hyge surprise, I might add), their games average 4.68 goals per. Loko takes the cake in the K with 3.6 goals per game. That's one goal difference and that's A LOT.



Exactly. Teams don't just sit back because they want to be boring. They do that because it pays of. Medvescak, on the other hand, are 9-3-3-3 at home with pretty active forecheck.
If you have a properly executed forecheck in a small rink it can work. LA Kings in their Cup run had one the best forecheck's I've ever seen. It was like a work of art. Combine with brilliantly executed breakout with short passing, thy were anything but a boring team. Teams like Chicago and Detroit have proven that puck control works in a small rink as well but it needs to have variety/options. Hawks breakout last season was also very impressive to watch. They came out of their zone practically always via short, controlled passing instead of just using the boards. Only simpletons would say the game is always boring in a certain size rink.

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Old
12-07-2013, 02:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Only simpletons would say the game is always boring in a certain size rink.
Nobody did. But the fact is that big ice allows teams to sit back, trap, push everything to the outside and be successful at it while on the small ice it's pretty much impossible.

Btw, two more shutouts in the K today.

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12-07-2013, 04:16 PM
  #86
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Nobody did. But the fact is that big ice allows teams to sit back, trap, push everything to the outside and be successful at it while on the small ice it's pretty much impossible.

Btw, two more shutouts in the K today.
There's more than a few (Russian) posters that keep repeating how boring the game is in NHL rink whee it's very clear they haven't watching very closely (or they watch the wrong teams).

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12-13-2013, 07:30 AM
  #87
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I wonder how serious are Spartak trouble....HC Dolphin (Sochi)?)))

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12-13-2013, 07:41 AM
  #88
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I wonder how serious are Spartak trouble....HC Dolphin (Sochi)?)))
What ? You mean that Spartak will relocate to Sochi ?

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12-13-2013, 08:01 AM
  #89
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What ? You mean that Spartak will relocate to Sochi ?
Either that or they get sent to VHL,either way it might just be that we wont see Spartak in KHL,that is ofcourse if some oil company doenst come to rescue,like in case with CSKA.

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12-13-2013, 02:31 PM
  #90
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What ? You mean that Spartak will relocate to Sochi ?
There has been lots of talk about them relocating there over the past months/years. I think it was mentioned recently that the team would be expansion and not a relocation tho. Don't have a link for either so take it with a grain of salt.

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12-13-2013, 03:10 PM
  #91
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loan to Neftekhimik will pay off for Yarullin, 25:30 minutes and a goal in a win over Loko today!

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12-13-2013, 05:53 PM
  #92
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There's more than a few (Russian) posters that keep repeating how boring the game is in NHL rink whee it's very clear they haven't watching very closely (or they watch the wrong teams).
MMM, only Detroit, sometimes Washington are interesting to watch. Its total dump and chase hockey otherwise, boring. The odd game brings excitement, but coaches usually preach systemic hockey, denounce creativity... Even in wash. for example, if OV is not playing with Backstrom/Johanson, he is boring to watch. IMO Russians are only fun to watch when paired with other, creative minded euros, which is why I watch the KHL. Many players in the NHL lack creativity, hockey sense and even the ability to catch passes regularly. Everything is get over the redline and dump. In the KHL its only dump if there are no other options.. Semin says it best in his interviews, I have also witnessed it growing up through the CDN junior hockey system. There is very little interesting in NA hockey these days, especially from coaches prospective. I have also received coaching licence here in Canada and hockey Canada development system is sad. Even Wayne Gretzky admitted that our program is lacking and requires a revamp. I can go on and on, but I will save my virtual breath

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12-14-2013, 02:39 AM
  #93
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MMM, only Detroit, sometimes Washington are interesting to watch. Its total dump and chase hockey otherwise, boring.
I can't understand what do you mean by that. Blackhawks are basically a poster team for all the things Detroit has been known for in the glory days and you still find Detroit interesting to watch while Blackhawks are boring?

Sure there are these "meat and potatoes" kind of teams like Bruins or Kings but that is so in all the team sports. It's just that placing system over creativity (which is chaos to some extent) is their nature. You can make a point that Barcelona is the most boring team in football because they stick to their system no matter what (their style is the description of boring) and yet they are being constantly applauded for the beauty of their game.

What do you want to say by your post? The same problem applies to the KHL, which has very few creative teams nowadays, as well as any other professional hockey league. As well as to any other sport (Rafa Nadal is all about system).

It's essentially a philosophical question where the point is that as long as there's a right way to do things they're going to be done that way and all the creativity which is allowed is within those regulations (system). And NHL has plenty of teams that are creative within their system, no less than any other league.

Your idea about KHL being a "creative" league where player "dump only when there are no other options" is laughable. Could you, please, list a teams of west conference who play "entertaining hockey"?


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12-14-2013, 07:00 AM
  #94
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12-14-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
MMM, only Detroit, sometimes Washington are interesting to watch. Its total dump and chase hockey otherwise, boring. The odd game brings excitement, but coaches usually preach systemic hockey, denounce creativity... Even in wash. for example, if OV is not playing with Backstrom/Johanson, he is boring to watch. IMO Russians are only fun to watch when paired with other, creative minded euros, which is why I watch the KHL. Many players in the NHL lack creativity, hockey sense and even the ability to catch passes regularly. Everything is get over the redline and dump. In the KHL its only dump if there are no other options.. Semin says it best in his interviews, I have also witnessed it growing up through the CDN junior hockey system. There is very little interesting in NA hockey these days, especially from coaches prospective. I have also received coaching licence here in Canada and hockey Canada development system is sad. Even Wayne Gretzky admitted that our program is lacking and requires a revamp. I can go on and on, but I will save my virtual breath
You need to watch the Blackhawks more. They don't dump & chase unless there are no other options. Maybe Anaheim too, though I'm not entirely convinced they have a system.

I really have to question your "coaching credentials" as no certified coach would make generalizations by watching only a couple of teams games and lump the whole league into one category.


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Old
12-17-2013, 05:37 AM
  #96
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It looks like the limit of foreign players for Russian teams will be raised from five to seven next season. This sounds like the best option at this point.

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12-17-2013, 06:39 AM
  #97
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Yeah but no more. I don't want KHL to become a gastarbaiters league

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12-17-2013, 07:05 AM
  #98
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Yeah but no more. I don't want KHL to become a gastarbaiters league
But isn't that what KHL is trying to do?
If they want to compete with the NHL as the premier hockey league on this planet they can't have foreigner limits.

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12-17-2013, 07:23 AM
  #99
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Good to see. Not only league will be able to get stronger by Russian clubs attracting 50-ish new imports, but hopefully the signed ones will be able to stay at their clubs longer. Current marry-go-round could be stopped, as decent foreigners won't get fired on a spot after going cold for couple of games.

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12-17-2013, 07:36 AM
  #100
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Good to see. Not only league will be able to get stronger by Russian clubs attracting 50-ish new imports, but hopefully the signed ones will be able to stay at their clubs longer. Current marry-go-round could be stopped, as decent foreigners won't get fired on a spot after going cold for couple of games.
Agreed.
Everything that is limiting inflated influence of Russian players and is adding more diversity and quality to the league is a good thing.

Plus, there's a lot more good middle tier NA players out there than Russians, Medvescak is proving us that. There is a chance that overall competitiveness will increase.

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