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Rank our defensive players (1 to Engelland)

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Old
12-19-2013, 11:18 PM
  #1
wgknestrick
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Rank our defensive players (1 to Engelland)

Just on where they are right now, this season. I am interested where you guys think these new guys rank among the regulars.


I'll through my stick in with this


Niskanen
Martin
Maatta
Depres
*this is where it gets tough for me*
Scuderi
Orpik
Letang
Bortz
*these guys below are pretty clear IMO*
PhilUlf
Dumoulin
Engelland

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Old
12-19-2013, 11:22 PM
  #2
orby
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it's kind of hard to rank the defense based on where they are RIGHT NOW when the top 4 are on injured reserve...

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12-19-2013, 11:22 PM
  #3
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Martin
Maatta
Despres
Niskanen
Scuderi
Orpik
Bortuzzo
Dumoulin
PhilUlf













Letang
Engelland

but it's pretty hard to compare them when some have barely had any time to play.

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Old
12-19-2013, 11:23 PM
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Beauner
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Letang- Like him or not he's an upper echelon defenseman in his league. Sometimes makes bad turnoverers but makes up for it with his speed, offence and positioning.

Martin

Maatta

Orpik/Scuderi- can't choose on this one.

Niskanen

Despres/Bortuzzo

Engelland slightly below the others

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12-19-2013, 11:25 PM
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Waffle Fries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orby View Post
it's kind of hard to rank the defense based on where they are RIGHT NOW when the top 4 are on injured reserve...
Exactly. Although I'm 100% positive that this thread will turn into a Letang ***** fest.

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12-19-2013, 11:26 PM
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orby
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In rough terms of how valuable I think they are to the team:

most valuable: Martin, Maatta

tier 2: Scuderi, Letang

tier 3: Niskanen, Despres, Bortuzzo, Orpik

tier 4: Dumoulin

tier 5: Ulfie Jr, Engo

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Old
12-19-2013, 11:39 PM
  #7
Polaris Polestar
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I'll spare this thread the Engo dumpster fire.

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:11 AM
  #8
Gallatin
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Based on my opinion of how well they have played this season:

1) Martin-A tad inconsistent, but with monster games here and there.
2) Scuderi-So steady, so calming back there.
3) Matta-Oli has been a revelation, so poised, and flashes some high high upside.
4) Niskanen-has won me over, legit 2nd pair PMD.
5) Bortuzzo-Nasty! And solid D except for 2 or 3 games.
6) Depres-Playing well, flashing uncommon skills and big upside but inconsistent in my book. Still takes chances at odd times. A lot of his mistakes have not lead to goals against though.
7) Brooks has played ok so far IMO, very up and down though, and a turnover machine only exceeded by....
8) Letang-Came back a week before he should have and trying to learn the new D system really threw him off his game. On the ice for a ton of goals. Started to pull it together before the 2nd injury.
9) Engelland-DB misuses him & because we want to see the young guys we pick on him mercilessly, but he has played the game of a solid number 6 in my eyes.
10) Dumoulin-Has been shaky to say the least, but small sample size and first games in the NHL, it's to be expected. Looks to be close to settling in though IMO.
11) Ulf Jr. has not looked very good in his first games. Seems to have an even worse case of the nerves than Dumoulin.

Holy cow batman-we have 9 legit top 6 D, and two more that may come around once the nerves settle down. And Harrington in the A, with Pouliot playing well in Jr. & being tabbed as Canada's powerplay QB in th World Juniors.

Top to bottom, the deepest group in the NHL to my eyes.

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:33 AM
  #9
madinsomniac
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1. Martin- Until proven otherwise
2. Scuderi - Solely defensive rank
3. A fully healthy Letang
4. Maatta
5 Niskanen (these two are above letang v2013 to date)
6 Despres ( And honestly Id play him above Nisky if he had to play across from letang
7. Bortuzzo
8 Orpik ... this is also dependent if Orpik really slowed down or if he is just "conserving himself for the playoffs" cause he has looked good in games
9. Engellend
9a Eaton
10 Domoulin
11 SonofUlf

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:39 AM
  #10
ColePens
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Tier 1 - Studs: Consistently great

Scuds, Martin, Maatta

Tier 2 - Good: not quite great

Despres


Tier 3 - Inconsistent: Flashes of great play/flashes of terrible play

Nisky, Letang, Bort, Orpik


Tier 4 - Just not quite there: I'm not giving up, but work needs to be done. Too inconsistent

Dumo, Ulf Jr, Engo,




This is difficult because everyone has different expectations. But I'll go with this.

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:51 AM
  #11
mpp9
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Yeah Scuds, Martin and Maatta are the guys I trust most. And not a big surprise they're all playing separately when we're healthy. Having one of them on the ice at all times is a great thing.

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:55 AM
  #12
Tender Rip
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Wait wait wait!

Anyone of you who does not have Ulfie Jr. last, with room to spare, are not talking about current ability. Debate everything else but not that!

I honestly have no clue about the top6 right now, but from the back I would say:

11 - Sammy
10 - Dumoulin
9 - Engo

Dumoulin however shows every indication that he has the quality to be genuinely good, and soon.

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Old
12-20-2013, 01:07 AM
  #13
Pancakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Tier 1 - Studs: Consistently great

Scuds, Martin, Maatta

Tier 2 - Good: not quite great

Despres


Tier 3 - Inconsistent: Flashes of great play/flashes of terrible play

Nisky, Letang, Bort, Orpik


Tier 4 - Just not quite there: I'm not giving up, but work needs to be done. Too inconsistent

Dumo, Ulf Jr, Engo,




This is difficult because everyone has different expectations. But I'll go with this.
I more or less agree with your list. Main changes I'd make are I'd move Niskanen and Orpik to the good tier.

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12-20-2013, 01:17 AM
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Waffle Fries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I more or less agree with your list. Main changes I'd make are I'd move Niskanen and Orpik to the good tier.
Really? I mean, Niskanen I suppose I understand since he's been playing the best hockey of his career since the injuries (despite not looking good when paired with anyone but Scuds/Maatta). But you'd classify Orpik's play as 'good' rather than inconsistent? I only remember one game this season where I was impressed with him. It was the 4-0 Caps win where everyone pretty much had their best game.

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12-20-2013, 01:24 AM
  #15
12IsGreaterThan47
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RIGHT NOW (assuming healthy)

1. Eggs Malone
2. Roly pOlli
3. Letang
4. Niskanen
5. Scuderi
6. Bortuzzo
7. Orpik
8. Dumoulin
9. Samuelsson


1,000,000,000.00 - Engelland, Deryk

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Old
12-20-2013, 01:25 AM
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Waffle Fries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
RIGHT NOW (assuming healthy)

1. Eggs Malone
2. Roly pOlli
3. Letang
4. Niskanen
5. Scuderi
6. Bortuzzo
7. Orpik
8. Dumoulin
9. Samuelsson


1,000,000,000.00 - Engelland, Deryk
I assume you didn't include Despres because he's going to be traded, right?

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12-20-2013, 01:27 AM
  #17
12IsGreaterThan47
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
I assume you didn't include Despres because he's going to be traded, right?
I didn't include him because I am irrational about him so it's best if I just deal with the people I can look at with an even eye.

If I placed him, it would be #3 or #4, and people can look at his TOI and just call me silly, etc... and I'd rather just avoid that.

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12-20-2013, 01:31 AM
  #18
Gallatin
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There are a lot of ways to look at this. My first post was on this season. Next, the top end of their games as I have seen them within the last 5 seasons, and that they all could reach again during the playoffs - hopefully.

1) Letang when he is on is a Norris caliber player.
2) Martin when on the top of his game is Norris candidate all-round good.
3) Scuderi is the proven top-of-the-charts defensive defenseman you win cups with.
4) Orpik when focused and physical he is a great asset.
5) Depres has had some great runs of physical puck moving play that surely tantalizes.
6) Maatta has had mistake free games that remind of Lidstrom without the offense - yet.
7) Niskanen has played tough PMD minutes at times in his Pens career.
8) Bortuzzo playing physical and consistent hockey earlier in the season is clearly an improvement on...
9)Engalland has had some great stretches of playing focused and within his limited skill set.
10) Dumoulin sample too small
11) Samuelsson sample too small.

Give me top shelf Letang & Martin in the playoffs and we likely win another cup.

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Old
12-20-2013, 01:42 AM
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Waffle Fries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I didn't include him because I am irrational about him so it's best if I just deal with the people I can look at with an even eye.

If I placed him, it would be #3 or #4, and people can look at his TOI and just call me silly, etc... and I'd rather just avoid that.
Ah. I see. I think your list is pretty close to accurate. I don't think Despres in the 3-5 range is anything that can't be argued. It's certainly closer to the the truth than those placing Letang at the bottom.

It's really hard to figure out where to place everyone with the injury situation and how Niskanen has been playing at a level he's never been at before. I also don't like to get too caught up in "what have you done for me lately" which seems to be the premise of the thread.

If I were to rank them, it'd be by how valuable I think they are to the team not just right now, but mostly in the future.

Because of that I think (in alphabetical order) Despres, Letang, Maatta and Martin are the most important. Whether they are the ones playing the best right now means little to me. I think those are/will be our 4 best D going forward.

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Old
12-20-2013, 02:00 AM
  #20
Pancakes
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Really? I mean, Niskanen I suppose I understand since he's been playing the best hockey of his career since the injuries (despite not looking good when paired with anyone but Scuds/Maatta). But you'd classify Orpik's play as 'good' rather than inconsistent? I only remember one game this season where I was impressed with him. It was the 4-0 Caps win where everyone pretty much had their best game.
Well he's been part of our shutdown pairing with him and Martin and that pair has been real effective for us this season. I don't think it's all Martin.

I've also noticed him running around and being out of position less this year. He's playing within himself.

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Old
12-20-2013, 02:39 AM
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Wait, I thought Engels was a winger?

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Old
12-20-2013, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I more or less agree with your list. Main changes I'd make are I'd move Niskanen and Orpik to the good tier.
I can see the case for Niskanen, particularly because of how he's handled himself as the de facto #1 when all the injuries hit. But Orpik? Orpik's the definition of inconsistency.

The only games Orpik has looked even close to good is the games Martin played particularly brilliantly and covered for his defense partner.

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12-20-2013, 10:22 AM
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DawgPens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madinsomniac View Post
1. Martin- Until proven otherwise
2. Scuderi - Solely defensive rank
3. A fully healthy Letang
4. Maatta
5 Niskanen (these two are above letang v2013 to date)
6 Despres ( And honestly Id play him above Nisky if he had to play across from letang
7. Bortuzzo
8 Orpik ... this is also dependent if Orpik really slowed down or if he is just "conserving himself for the playoffs" cause he has looked good in games
9. Engellend
9a Eaton
10 Domoulin
11 SonofUlf
This.

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Old
12-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #24
PensBandwagonerNo272
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Letang
Martin (Letang and Martin are kind of a 1a 1b at the moment)
Scuderi
Niskanen
Maatta
Despres
Orpik
Bortuzzo
Engelland
Dumo/UlfJr

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Old
12-20-2013, 10:42 AM
  #25
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Martin
Maatta
Scuderi
Niskanen
Orpik
Despres
Bortuzzo
Engelland
Dumoulin
Samuelsson













Letang
Engelland

but it's pretty hard to compare them when some have barely had any time to play.[/QUOTE]

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