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Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part III - 11/11 Yakupov willing to be moved

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Old
11-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
a lot more than a bottom 6 forward with no upside beyond that and a worse defenseman.
I will believe it when I see it, if you move Del Zotto now, it is undeniable that you are selling low.

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11-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #527
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I will believe it when I see it, if you move Del Zotto now, it is undeniable that you are selling low.
The difference is that they dont have to move him. Hes a capable player, if not anything special. If some team wants him, they have to give the rangers a reason to move him. Rangers dont have to sell, thats where the value comes in.

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11-10-2013, 02:07 PM
  #528
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I will believe it when I see it, if you move Del Zotto now, it is undeniable that you are selling low.
if we are selling low on del zotto than what the hell are detroit selling on brendan smith? hes got 1 goal and 15 assists in 60 career games in the nhl. hes actually older than del zotto. hes got 1 point in 11 games this year and is -7.

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11-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
The difference is that they dont have to move him. Hes a capable player, if not anything special. If some team wants him, they have to give the rangers a reason to move him. Rangers dont have to sell, thats where the value comes in.
I agree. However, I just think a Del Zotto trade is inevitable and his stock certainly is not going up at this point. So just trying to project a bit. Del Zotto remains the team's most tradable asset but you aren't going to get a massive player for him unless you add other pieces. If you can get an deal where the incoming can plug some holes you need to look at it

I think some people need to realize if you trade Del Zotto, you probably need to get a defenseman (preferably righty) back unless you are ready for a whole lot of Falk. If you are getting a NHL ready righty Dman back, it is going to limit what else you can get back in a trade.

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11-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
I agree. However, I just think a Del Zotto trade is inevitable and his stock certainly is not going up at this point. So just trying to project a bit. Del Zotto remains the team's most tradable asset but you aren't going to get a massive player for him unless you add other pieces. If you can get an deal where the incoming can plug some holes you need to look at it

I think some people need to realize if you trade Del Zotto, you probably need to get a defenseman (preferably righty) back unless you are ready for a whole lot of Falk. If you are getting a NHL ready righty Dman back, it is going to limit what else you can get back in a trade.
I would tend to agree, but I think there are far more capable RD that can be had for DZ than a guy who is a fringe NHLer.

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11-10-2013, 02:19 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I would tend to agree, but I think there are far more capable RD that can be had for DZ than a guy who is a fringe NHLer.
Yeah I just don't think there are a lot of dance partners at this time for del Zotto. Luckily, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal and Stralman are locked into top 4 D minutes, an Moore isn't too far behind, so you can get away with getting a bottom pairing guy with upside as long as you can plug other holes in the deal; Specifically bottom 6 forwards and prospects with top 6 potential, (assuming you can't get a legit top six C/LW).

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11-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #532
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Yeah I just don't think there are a lot of dance partners at this time for del Zotto. Luckily, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal and Stralman are locked into top 4 D minutes, an Moore isn't too far behind, so you can get away with getting a bottom pairing guy with upside as long as you can plug other holes in the deal; Specifically bottom 6 forwards and prospects with top 6 potential, (assuming you can't get a legit top six C/LW).
Well either way in your scenario you are moving a guy who plays substantial minutes now for a guy who wont. Not a good move unless one of those prospects has excellent potential, which I dont think a guy like Smith I dont think has.

If you could move him for a guy like Simmonds, that is a far more valuable return.

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11-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Yeah I just don't think there are a lot of dance partners at this time for del Zotto. Luckily, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal and Stralman are locked into top 4 D minutes, an Moore isn't too far behind, so you can get away with getting a bottom pairing guy with upside as long as you can plug other holes in the deal; Specifically bottom 6 forwards and prospects with top 6 potential, (assuming you can't get a legit top six C/LW).
I think the major issue is the Rangers really dont know what they need at this point. If they trade a D, they can use one in return...but they could also use some size/grit up front. The only thing thats clear is that Del Zotto is the most likely to go considering his contract situation, his natural side, and not being able to fill the role of PP QB.

Where I disagree with you is that John Moore is "not too far behind" being an NHL top 4 defenseman. I think hes developing, but a ways away. If you look beyond his exceptional skating, theres some severe warts to his game.

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11-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Well either way in your scenario you are moving a guy who plays substantial minutes now for a guy who wont. Not a good move unless one of those prospects has excellent potential, which I dont think a guy like Smith I dont think has.

If you could move him for a guy like Simmonds, that is a far more valuable return.
For the record I don't think you can get Simmonds for Del Zotto, but if you can, are you okay with Falk for the rest of the season? If not what other assets can you really afford to give up for another defenseman.

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11-10-2013, 02:33 PM
  #535
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For the record I don't think you can get Simmonds for Del Zotto, but if you can, are you okay with Falk for the rest of the season? If not what other assets can you really afford to give up for another defenseman.
I think they have to try a combo of McIlrath/Allen too.

Either way, they need to prepare for D next season, Stralman, Girardi, MDZ, could potentially lose all of them.

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11-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I think they have to try a combo of McIlrath/Allen too.

Either way, they need to prepare for D next season, Stralman, Girardi, MDZ, could potentially lose all of them.
Dz is Rfa so he's signed if they want but I think they will move him for a rd this yr. mcilrath could be ready for 3rd pair minutes. I like strain but with the cap I don't know if they have enough space . Girardi will be overpaid and rather sign Cally n hank. What about bieksa for girardi depending on his contract

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11-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I think they have to try a combo of McIlrath/Allen too.

Either way, they need to prepare for D next season, Stralman, Girardi, MDZ, could potentially lose all of them.
I understand that, but does relying on Falk, and two rookies make the team better this season as opposed to getting an NHL proven player to replace Del Zotto, while improving on the bottom six? I think you can use a Del Zotto trade to make the team more well rounded. I don't know that adding just Simmonds does that. He can disappear and take dumb penalties, but he also can't create his own shot. To me, Simmonds is another 2nd/3rd line tweener and the Rangers have those kinda of players in abundance.

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11-10-2013, 02:51 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
I understand that, but does relying on Falk, and two rookies make the team better this season as opposed to getting an NHL proven player to replace Del Zotto, while improving on the bottom six? I think you can use a Del Zotto trade to make the team more well rounded. I don't know that adding just Simmonds does that. He can disappear and take dumb penalties, but he also can't create his own shot. To me, Simmonds is another 2nd/3rd line tweener and the Rangers have those kinda of players in abundance.
Simmonds is a bottom 6 player? How?

50 point season, followed by a 30+ point season in a shortened year?

Simmonds certainly would add more value this year than Del Zotto.

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11-10-2013, 03:07 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Simmonds is a bottom 6 player? How?

50 point season, followed by a 30+ point season in a shortened year?

Simmonds certainly would add more value this year than Del Zotto.
Did not say he was bottom six, said he was a 2nd line/3rd line tweener, which I certainly feel is accurate. He is also a RW which is our deepest forward position. Do you put him on line 2 above Callahan? Also with Simmonds be has only produced consistently offensively when he was with Giroux. Simmonds cannot create his own shot. Now I think Simmonds helps, I would rather have some one that can finish on their own, maybe someone who can break through the neutral zone. I don't think that is Simmonds.

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11-10-2013, 03:30 PM
  #540
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For the record I don't think you can get Simmonds for Del Zotto, but if you can, are you okay with Falk for the rest of the season? If not what other assets can you really afford to give up for another defenseman.
You won't get Symmonds for Del Zotto but if you could, I would jump all over that.

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11-10-2013, 03:33 PM
  #541
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I understand that, but does relying on Falk, and two rookies make the team better this season as opposed to getting an NHL proven player to replace Del Zotto, while improving on the bottom six? I think you can use a Del Zotto trade to make the team more well rounded. I don't know that adding just Simmonds does that. He can disappear and take dumb penalties, but he also can't create his own shot. To me, Simmonds is another 2nd/3rd line tweener and the Rangers have those kinda of players in abundance.
Are you serious? The Rangers don't have any player that remotely resembles Simmonds! Not even close.

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11-10-2013, 04:08 PM
  #542
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I certainly think you could get Simmonds for Del Zotto.

The values of the players would be similar were they the same age. MDZ is younger.

Traditionally MDZ is a 35-40 point d-man and Simmonds is a 40-50 point physical forward. The only reason Philly might say no is because of the repercussions in conference, and the fact that they have two small offensive defensemen in Timmonen and Streit already.

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11-10-2013, 04:11 PM
  #543
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Simmonds is the type of player you win Cups with. He's big, physical, can put up points, and is a ******* in front of net. The exact reasons Philly won't deal him to us.

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11-10-2013, 04:27 PM
  #544
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I certainly think you could get Simmonds for Del Zotto.

The values of the players would be similar were they the same age. MDZ is younger.

Traditionally MDZ is a 35-40 point d-man and Simmonds is a 40-50 point physical forward. The only reason Philly might say no is because of the repercussions in conference, and the fact that they have two small offensive defensemen in Timmonen and Streit already.
Philly doesn't want Del Zotto. They don't need another PMD unless they trade Timmonen. They need someone who can actually defend.

Simmonds skill set is not redundant on the Rangers, but they have a ton of 2rd/3rd line players. They need to get a 1st/2nd line guy.

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11-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #545
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Philly doesn't want Del Zotto. They don't need another PMD unless they trade Timmonen. They need someone who can actually defend.

Simmonds skill set is not redundant on the Rangers, but they have a ton of 2rd/3rd line players. They need to get a 1st/2nd line guy.
Del Zotto is ok defensively, certainly better than he was.

Timmonen is also 38 years old, to say they wouldnt want a 23 year old player with similar abilities to Timmonen is mistaken, I believe.


As for the 1st/2nd line guy, thats exactly what Simmonds is. Even if you do somehow play him on the 3rd line, he would be excellent there with his size and work in the dirty areas.

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11-10-2013, 04:48 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Del Zotto is ok defensively, certainly better than he was.

Timmonen is also 38 years old, to say they wouldnt want a 23 year old player with similar abilities to Timmonen is mistaken, I believe.


As for the 1st/2nd line guy, thats exactly what Simmonds is. Even if you do somehow play him on the 3rd line, he would be excellent there with his size and work in the dirty areas.
If the flyers trade for del Zotto with Timmonen and Streit still on the roster, they will value him as a 3rd pairing defender which won't get Simmonds.

Simmonds would be 3rd RW on this team unless you put him over Nash and Callahan.

I don't think Simmonds can score consistently without Giroux. I feel like Simmonds could potentially be a big bust here. While I would not be upset if the Rangers got Simmonds for Del Zotto I just don't see it happening, and logistically I would think they would be better served going for a C or LW. I think Simmonds is overrated. He could help but I don't think he is the missing piece.

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11-10-2013, 04:54 PM
  #547
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If the flyers trade for del Zotto with Timmonen and Streit still on the roster, they will value him as a 3rd pairing defender which won't get Simmonds.
Or they value him as a key asset for the future... Timmonen's replacement.

Quote:
Simmonds would be 3rd RW on this team unless you put him over Nash and Callahan.
You mean the two guys on the rangers who miss a lot of games? Yea... Not to mention the rangers badly need another guy who can play in front of the net on the PP. Cally is really the only guy who wins consistently in there.

Quote:
I don't think Simmonds can score consistently without Giroux.
They need a net front guy, especially on the PP, which is where Simmonds is a stud.

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11-10-2013, 04:58 PM
  #548
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In a vacuum I do take Simmonds for Del Zotto, but I don't think it happens.

And McIlrath and Allen better be ready if they don't get a Dman back.

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11-10-2013, 05:19 PM
  #549
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In a vacuum I do take Simmonds for Del Zotto, but I don't think it happens.

And McIlrath and Allen better be ready if they don't get a Dman back.
They aren't.

Mcilrath, though playing better by all accounts, would get eaten alive by nhl speed.

Allen has upside but again, not ready for prime time. these 2 shouldnt be rushed into playing a regular shift.

As weak as mdz is, he's still much more reliable than either of these 2.

Faulk is the guy who steps into mdzs minutes.

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11-10-2013, 05:33 PM
  #550
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They aren't.

Mcilrath, though playing better by all accounts, would get eaten alive by nhl speed.

Allen has upside but again, not ready for prime time. these 2 shouldnt be rushed into playing a regular shift.

As weak as mdz is, he's still much more reliable than either of these 2.

Faulk is the guy who steps into mdzs minutes.
Do you know something we don't about an MDZ trade to Carolina?

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