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The All-Purpose David Desharnais thread (post-Pressbox edition)

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Old
11-14-2013, 10:24 AM
  #501
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Can't believe the White hate on this thread. He's been very good on the PK this year, good on faceoffs and hasn't taken as many dumb penalties as last year. Hard to ask for more from your 4th line C.

Would I like him to be more physical and fight more? Yes, but he has to find the right balance, he can't be as aggressive as he was last year as he was costing the team. Let him work the nastiness back into his game at the right time.

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11-14-2013, 10:30 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
We diss White because the team is losing game after game and people don't want to blame any of the "fan favourites."

As for DD - send him down already. See if he can rip up the AHL, gain some confidence, and come back later in the year. It's the only way he will maybe be able to reinvent himself.
Dissing White because that's how low on the depth chart DD has fallen. Even then, you have to ignore all context. Apparently White, a 4th liner/13th forward grinder, new target as only regular forward with less points than DD. I'd imagine it will be Moen soon.

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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Eller has underperformed for quite a stretch as well.
He's streaky in terms of putting up points, consistent in terms of pushing possession, facing tough competition, and good defensively. He did same thing last season despite ending up with 30 points in the last 42 games. If he had that production consistency, he'd be a legit 1st liner which he obviously isn't right now. This is exactly what I said before he got 3 points vs the Isles. I think he'll continue to put up points in bunches and go on stretches without points. Hopefully he can develop consistency as it would make him a legit force. He seems to be improving every season so I think it could happen. It's amazing how much he improved the little things like faceoffs year to year literally going up 3-4% every season (42.5 to 46.6 to 49.3 to 52.4). He's facing tougher and tougher ES competition too. His shooting rate/game is going up. I will never understand how people compare him to Desharnais.

There is consistency though so I won't really criticize the method of player evaluation. Production without context is what made some think Desharnais was a valuable asset when he was putting up some points. Only fair that they view lack of production with same mindset.


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11-14-2013, 11:02 AM
  #503
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White is great. I don't think Therrien's the best coach for him, but I hope he's the regular fourth line centre with Prust and Moen. Maybe some nights Desharnais can get a look if they're looking for a more offence first player.

White is a beauty, needs to be players like him on a hockey team:

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...80765&catid=66

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11-14-2013, 11:07 AM
  #504
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Let's just say Eller makes a commendable job at being the lesser player on his line.
Let's just say "Plekanec 2.0" comments last year were very premature. Hard not to be pleased with the output though. It comes in bunches but it comes. Hopefully more consistency is in his future.

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11-14-2013, 11:13 AM
  #505
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Let's just say "Plekanec 2.0" comments last year were very premature. Hard not to be pleased with the output though. It comes in bunches but it comes. Hopefully more consistency is in his future.
I don't think it's unfair to suggest his upside is a bigger Plekanec-type player. What has he shown that it's too premature to suggest it's a possibility? This isn't like those future St.Louis projections...Plek is good but he's a completely realistic comparable/end goal.

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11-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Eller has underperformed for quite a stretch as well.
Are you sure he has underperformed or did he produce less than hoped for for that stretch? Performance is just about production and that seems to be forgotten from time to time.

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11-14-2013, 11:33 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I don't think it's unfair to suggest his upside is a bigger Plekanec-type player. What has he shown that it's too premature to suggest it's a possibility? This isn't like those future St.Louis projections...Plek is good but he's a completely realistic comparable/end goal.
Many stated he was better than Plekanec already. Aka, why it was premature. Upside and current situation are entirely different.

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11-14-2013, 11:36 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
To be honest.... White floats a bit more than I'd like him to this season.

But DD on the 4th means a 4th with no purpose whatsoever.
J-F Chaumont ‏@JFChaumontJDM
#Habs: On revoit Moen-Desharnais-White pour le 4e trio. Brandon Prust devra peut-être patienter avant de revenir au jeu.

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11-14-2013, 11:38 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
J-F Chaumont ‏@JFChaumontJDM
#Habs: On revoit Moen-Desharnais-White pour le 4e trio. Brandon Prust devra peut-être patienter avant de revenir au jeu.
I'd rather DD spends more than 1 game a time in the pressbox.

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11-14-2013, 11:51 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I'd rather DD spends more than 1 game a time in the pressbox.
As would I, but with Prust possibly returning Saturday, if DD sits Friday, he won't be back in the lineup unless someone gets hurt.

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11-14-2013, 12:35 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Many stated he was better than Plekanec already. Aka, why it was premature. Upside and current situation are entirely different.
You sure? Last season aside from people suggesting he was the Habs best forward down the stretch going into the playoffs (especially as an excuse after he was KO'd game 1) where he and Galchenyuk were lighting it up, don't really recall there being a movement saying he was already better player than Plekanec. This is from someone that has been pimping Eller's upside for years. He had 13 points in the last 12 games of the season. This means in the previous 36, he had 17 points. Plekanec on the other hand had 27 points in 37 games at the same point last season. 17 points vs 27 points going into the final month and ending the season 33 points vs 30 points.

Maybe you mean the Eller hype train that happened at the start of the season with that hot start of being on pace for something like 130+ points? Which was kinda consistent with the bipolar nature of people as he was getting heat for a unproductive preseason.

Maybe you're accidentally mixing the vocal group from last summer/early season suggesting Desharnais made Plekanec expendable with the Eller hype train at the start of this season into a mutant Eller better than Plekanec movement. A lot of crazies on this board haha. I know personally that I've suggested he 'could' be big Plekanec, perhaps even M.Koivu type if all goes well. I mean he's only 24 and still improving year by year. Honestly he's progressing even faster than I thought he would and Habs management is giving him much bigger role faster than I thought they would.


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11-14-2013, 01:15 PM
  #512
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You sure? Last season aside from people suggesting he was the Habs best forward down the stretch going into the playoffs (especially as an excuse after he was KO'd game 1) where he and Galchenyuk were lighting it up, don't really recall there being a movement saying he was already better player than Plekanec. This is from someone that has been pimping Eller's upside for years. He had 13 points in the last 12 games of the season. This means in the previous 36, he had 17 points. Plekanec on the other hand had 27 points in 37 games at the same point last season. 17 points vs 27 points going into the final month and ending the season 33 points vs 30 points.

Maybe you mean the Eller hype train that happened at the start of the season with that hot start of being on pace for something like 130+ points? Which was kinda consistent with the bipolar nature of people as he was getting heat for a unproductive preseason.

Maybe you're accidentally mixing the vocal group from last summer/early season suggesting Desharnais made Plekanec expendable with the Eller hype train at the start of this season into a mutant Eller better than Plekanec movement. A lot of crazies on this board haha. I know personally that I've suggested he 'could' be big Plekanec, perhaps even M.Koivu type if all goes well. I mean he's only 24 and still improving year by year. Honestly he's progressing even faster than I thought he would and Habs management is giving him much bigger role faster than I thought they would.
There was much talk that Eller had become better. Was there a movement? I'm not sure there was some universal agreement on it. Still, I said some did feel that way.

I wasn't talking about this year's hype train although that train is running pretty smoothly.

Nah, I'm not mixing it up. I didn't mean to suggest it was some huge thing though. Just saying quite a few expressed that opinion.

As for his age and upside. Guy is 24, if you didn't expect him to be 2nd line ish now, when did you expect it? I think that's a fair question. You'd expect him to be showing it now if it exists. To be clear, I'm not arguing if he's showing upside or not, he definitely is. I'm just arguing at 24 years old and entering his 5th NHL season, 6th NA pro season, you'd kind of expect it by now no?

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Old
11-14-2013, 02:10 PM
  #513
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Luc Gelinas ‏@LucGelinasRDS 1 h
Possiblement de retour demain, David Desharnais voulait nous parler ce matin...mais il n'avait pas la permission à sa grande surprise. #CH
So the Habs have told DD he doesn't have permission to talk to the media? Certainly flies against the transparency/ accessibility edict that Bergevin trumpeted when he was hired.

Not that I care what cliches he might blurt out, but ... what does it all mean? Coderre fall-out? Building a protective shell? He might get jettisoned?

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11-14-2013, 02:37 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
You sure? Last season aside from people suggesting he was the Habs best forward down the stretch going into the playoffs (especially as an excuse after he was KO'd game 1) where he and Galchenyuk were lighting it up, don't really recall there being a movement saying he was already better player than Plekanec. This is from someone that has been pimping Eller's upside for years. He had 13 points in the last 12 games of the season. This means in the previous 36, he had 17 points. Plekanec on the other hand had 27 points in 37 games at the same point last season. 17 points vs 27 points going into the final month and ending the season 33 points vs 30 points.

Maybe you mean the Eller hype train that happened at the start of the season with that hot start of being on pace for something like 130+ points? Which was kinda consistent with the bipolar nature of people as he was getting heat for a unproductive preseason.

Maybe you're accidentally mixing the vocal group from last summer/early season suggesting Desharnais made Plekanec expendable with the Eller hype train at the start of this season into a mutant Eller better than Plekanec movement. A lot of crazies on this board haha. I know personally that I've suggested he 'could' be big Plekanec, perhaps even M.Koivu type if all goes well. I mean he's only 24 and still improving year by year. Honestly he's progressing even faster than I thought he would and Habs management is giving him much bigger role faster than I thought they would.

You win this discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
There was much talk that Eller had become better. Was there a movement? I'm not sure there was some universal agreement on it. Still, I said some did feel that way.
If you haven't noticed, overreaction is the name of the game around here. There were people claiming Eller was better than Plek already last year, as there was people claiming Desharnais was better the year before. If anything the former group was smaller since points are valued over context by a large, vocal minority around here. It doesn't help that there are a few - very vocal, but admittedly a few - who are obsessed with trading Plekanec because apparently you "can't win" with him, as if Plekanec has been what has held this team back.

After all, right now Bournival is being discussed as a better version of Plekanec. Give that a few weeks.

But yeah, for now Eller is very streaky offensively. So is Plekanec, although I think in-form Plekanec still is the only center on this team to consistently not suck against tough matchups, though even during his dry spell, Eller really only had maybe one game where he looked lost. Against weaker competition and greater offensive zone usage than Plek though, sure.

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Old
11-14-2013, 02:51 PM
  #515
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please tell me the imbecile that is
Therrien is not going to play the flying teddy-bear
on the 4th line?
our coach is an idiot

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11-14-2013, 04:23 PM
  #516
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As for his age and upside. Guy is 24, if you didn't expect him to be 2nd line ish now, when did you expect it? I think that's a fair question. You'd expect him to be showing it now if it exists. To be clear, I'm not arguing if he's showing upside or not, he definitely is. I'm just arguing at 24 years old and entering his 5th NHL season, 6th NA pro season, you'd kind of expect it by now no?
He wasn't in NA until he was 20, kinda hard to be in his 6th NA pro season. This is his 4th season in the NHL and I think he's currently an all situation 50+ point complete game C that can do everything from win faceoffs to hit. So far so good with there being a continual upward trend.

No I didn't expect him to jump from ~30 points to 50-60 point production rate last season (3rd NHL season) against good competition and maintain it this season against even tougher competition. More importantly, did not expect the Habs to increase his role to actually leading the team in ES min/game, with PP time, with SH time, and be close to Plekanec in icetime/game. I thought the jump would be more gradual...especially considering the Habs had him as 12/13th forward to start last season.

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11-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
There was much talk that Eller had become better. Was there a movement? I'm not sure there was some universal agreement on it. Still, I said some did feel that way.

I wasn't talking about this year's hype train although that train is running pretty smoothly.

Nah, I'm not mixing it up. I didn't mean to suggest it was some huge thing though. Just saying quite a few expressed that opinion.

As for his age and upside. Guy is 24, if you didn't expect him to be 2nd line ish now, when did you expect it? I think that's a fair question. You'd expect him to be showing it now if it exists. To be clear, I'm not arguing if he's showing upside or not, he definitely is. I'm just arguing at 24 years old and entering his 5th NHL season, 6th NA pro season, you'd kind of expect it by now no?
I don't think so. I'd remember that considering I'm one of the bigger Eller fans out there. There's a few who absolutely hate pleks to the point of absurdity, however, so if you mean there's a few outliers who mentioned it, well, sure. Or maybe we have a big difference between our definitions of 'quite a few'.

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11-14-2013, 05:09 PM
  #518
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He wasn't in NA until he was 20, kinda hard to be in his 6th NA pro season. This is his 4th season in the NHL and I think he's currently an all situation 50+ point complete game C that can do everything from win faceoffs to hit. So far so good with there being a continual upward trend.

No I didn't expect him to jump from ~30 points to 50-60 point production rate last season (3rd NHL season) against good competition and maintain it this season against even tougher competition. More importantly, did not expect the Habs to increase his role to actually leading the team in ES min/game, with PP time, with SH time, and be close to Plekanec in icetime/game. I thought the jump would be more gradual...especially considering the Habs had him as 12/13th forward to start last season.
I made a mistake and counted AHL and NHL with blues.

4th NHL season and 5th NA pro season.

Habs never had him as 12/13th unless you count the outlier bench.

I'll put it this way. If a player didn't show his potential by season 5 in the NA pros, I wouldn't think there was any. As a rule of thumb few of our prospects get 6-7 years to "reach their potential". Again, it's not to say Eller has no potential. It's just to say at this point he would've needed to show it otherwise I'd be even more skeptical than I used to be.

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11-14-2013, 05:14 PM
  #519
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What's going ot be funny is when we find out Desharnais is nursing an injury and they're only taking him and out to try and allow him to heal. That would funny, but not ha ha.

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11-14-2013, 05:18 PM
  #520
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DD is nursing dwarfism, a condition that somehow eluded those who threw $14 million at him.

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11-14-2013, 05:20 PM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I made a mistake and counted AHL and NHL with blues.

4th NHL season and 5th NA pro season.

Habs never had him as 12/13th unless you count the outlier bench.

I'll put it this way. If a player didn't show his potential by season 5 in the NA pros, I wouldn't think there was any. As a rule of thumb few of our prospects get 6-7 years to "reach their potential". Again, it's not to say Eller has no potential. It's just to say at this point he would've needed to show it otherwise I'd be even more skeptical than I used to be.
Eller has shown potential. He is in track for 52 points this year against above average competition and with a high goals to assists ratio. That continues the trend of last year. He is already a great 2nd line center. Whether he becomes better remains to be seen.

Eller is already a better player than Desharnais was in his miracle season.

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11-14-2013, 06:04 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I made a mistake and counted AHL and NHL with blues.

4th NHL season and 5th NA pro season.

Habs never had him as 12/13th unless you count the outlier bench.

I'll put it this way. If a player didn't show his potential by season 5 in the NA pros, I wouldn't think there was any. As a rule of thumb few of our prospects get 6-7 years to "reach their potential". Again, it's not to say Eller has no potential. It's just to say at this point he would've needed to show it otherwise I'd be even more skeptical than I used to be.
Well IMO there's a difference between production and potential. I thought he showed this potential from as early as his rookie year with the Habs and showed he had offensive touch in his game despite production. Granted I'm no scout as I saw upside in Leblanc in his rookie year and he took a big dive (still think he can be solid 3rd line hard minute RW). I'm talking about reaching upside production by 23/24 as something rare. I don't think Pacioretty/Subban at 24 have reached their upside either despite becoming high level very early in their careers. Eller's already at a 50+ point production rate in his 3rd and 4th NHL year playing quality ES minutes. I underrated the speed of his rise but it adds confidence in him reaching that upside.

To pull this thread back about Desharnais, he's in his 7th NA pro season and on a 15 points in 48 game run against mostly soft O players. At what point does one become skeptical that he'll ever become NHL caliber again?

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11-14-2013, 06:06 PM
  #523
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Why do I have the impression that we'll see a totally stupid 4th line tomorrow, like, Moen - DD - Parros?

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11-14-2013, 06:09 PM
  #524
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Why do I have the impression that we'll see a totally stupid 4th line tomorrow, like, Moen - DD - Parros?
It has been the hodgepodge line for years, platoobed by chipchura, d'agostini, engvist, weber, laraque, desharnais, etc.

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11-14-2013, 06:09 PM
  #525
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Why do I have the impression that we'll see a totally stupid 4th line tomorrow, like, Moen - DD - Parros?
Moen - DD is fine but putting Parros with DD is worse punishment than benching. Hopefully they use White at RW or Dumont.

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