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The All-Purpose David Desharnais thread (post-Pressbox edition)

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Old
12-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Where the hell was that the first 20 games of the season. That's the kind of play that earned him a spot in the NHL. Apparently the benchings woke him up..he's gotten progressively better since.

I'd like to see him play like this in the playoffs - he certainly didn't last spring.
Can we add Pleky to the playoff performers?

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12-02-2013, 09:19 PM
  #977
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Can we add Pleky to the playoff performers?
Wow. This myth will definitely never end. Hurts my feelings.
Poor Pleky.

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12-02-2013, 09:25 PM
  #978
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2-4-6 the last 6 games. Is he officially "back"?

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12-02-2013, 09:26 PM
  #979
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DD and a (healthy) Patches still have great chemistry. Patches was out injured, or playing with an injury that seemed to hinder his shot, for almost all of DD's slump. Patches now seems to have fully recovered from that early-season injury, so he's doing fantastic again.

The real question is if DD is riding on Patches' coattails, or if Patches is simply better with DD than other center options. If it's the former, then the plan should still be to trade DD. If it's the latter... then Habs management may have some hard decisions to make one day. Patches is probably our best winger, and if he needs DD to be the best that he can be, then...

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12-02-2013, 09:28 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
2-4-6 the last 6 games. Is he officially "back"?
2-6-8 in last 7 you mean? Honestly, highs and lows. He's NHL caliber and along with max the confidence is there again.

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12-02-2013, 09:33 PM
  #981
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The team is playing better and a huge part of it is because of DD. You call high maintenance, I call it team chemistry.
Well when a player you use for 15-18 minutes/game for nothing else but creating offense has 1 point in his first 19 games with that icetime, obviously success is less likely than when the player gets 8 points in next 7 games in same icetime/role with his injured go to winger back to form.

Call it whatever, but on an ideal lineup you have someone that doesn't need as much maintenance to produce ~40 points. That way, when they don't produce, the team doesn't struggle as much and the rest of the lineup doesn't have to follow as strict of a defensive matchup and be more free to produce as well. At the same time, exploitation lines is best when the player produces at higher end level like Ribeiro. That way, you are getting consistent production and it's worth the effort. Also would be nice if that player can produce without another player sewed to the waist permanently.

NOW with that said, this is based on DD won't suddenly have a career year in production. If he can get ~60 points again playing ~16 minutes instead of the unrealistic 18-20 minutes from 11/12, then it makes much more sense. But I'm highly skeptical this is the case. He's not as bad as he was in the first 19 games, but let's be honest, it's highly unlikely he's good enough to be producing as much as he has in the last 7 games long term. I think he's a high maintenance exploitation 35-45 point player that adds little defensively. I rather have a Bolland who can produce similarly but spread out the D responsibility throughout lineup giving less burden to Plekanec and other lines.

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
The real question is if DD is riding on Patches' coattails, or if Patches is simply better with DD than other center options. If it's the former, then the plan should still be to trade DD. If it's the latter... then Habs management may have some hard decisions to make one day. Patches is probably our best winger, and if he needs DD to be the best that he can be, then...
...he's not as good as we thought he was. No good player would 'need' another specific player to produce.

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12-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
DD and a (healthy) Patches still have great chemistry. Patches was out injured, or playing with an injury that seemed to hinder his shot, for almost all of DD's slump. Patches now seems to have fully recovered from that early-season injury, so he's doing fantastic again.

The real question is if DD is riding on Patches' coattails, or if Patches is simply better with DD than other center options. If it's the former, then the plan should still be to trade DD. If it's the latter... then Habs management may have some hard decisions to make one day. Patches is probably our best winger, and if he needs DD to be the best that he can be, then...
I think they just have really good chemistry. Patches might not need him in particular, but he definitely needs a "think pass first" type centre like DD, and thats just what he is. Yes of course i agree that DD passes too much, but if you're a forward on his line you need to get into a shooting position, not just blindly drive to the net. That's what Patches understands when DD gets the puck with time and space. They're just two guys who are on the same page.

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12-02-2013, 09:42 PM
  #983
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Desharnais value has to get back up a little bit after this nice month. Let's hope he can keep it up so we can trade him while his value is at the top.

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Old
12-02-2013, 09:43 PM
  #984
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DD's nasty slump is over. Started in Columbus with his SO game winner. Just as I had predicted

The whiners will continue to whine and use every exotic stat they can put their hands on to justify their whining about Desharnais.

I have yet to see one single complaint about Eller possibly bringing down Galchenyuk's productivity even though he clearly is. Playing with a future franchise player and Gallagher most of the time, Larry has exactly ZERO even strength goals since the 3rd game of the season. That's 25 games in a row with no ES goals. Wow.

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12-02-2013, 09:45 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Well when a player you use for 15-18 minutes/game for nothing else but creating offense has 1 point in his first 19 games with that icetime, obviously success is less likely than when the player gets 8 points in next 7 games in same icetime/role with his injured go to winger back to form.

Call it whatever, but on an ideal lineup you have someone that doesn't need as much maintenance to produce ~40 points. That way, when they don't produce, the team doesn't struggle as much and the rest of the lineup doesn't have to follow as strict of a defensive matchup and be more free to produce as well. At the same time, exploitation lines is best when the player produces at higher end level like Ribeiro. That way, you are getting consistent production and it's worth the effort. Also would be nice if that player can produce without another player sewed to the waist permanently.

NOW with that said, this is based on DD won't suddenly have a career year in production. If he can get ~60 points again playing ~16 minutes instead of the unrealistic 18-20 minutes from 11/12, then it makes much more sense. But I'm highly skeptical this is the case. He's not as bad as he was in the first 19 games, but let's be honest, it's highly unlikely he's good enough to be producing as much as he has in the last 7 games long term. I think he's a high maintenance exploitation 35-45 point player that adds little defensively. I rather have a Bolland who can produce similarly but spread out the D responsibility throughout lineup giving less burden to Plekanec and other lines.



...he's not as good as we thought he was. No good player would 'need' another specific player to produce.
I'm sorry but Brett Hull would never have scored as many goals as he did without Adam Oates by his side. Hull was one of the best at reading the play and knowing where to position himself to fire off a shot. It's also one of Pacioretty's strengths, but he, like Hull, is not one to create a play all on his own. He can do it every once in a while, but its not his strength to stick handle and deke.

Being a really elite level forward doesn't necessarily mean you have you have to have elite level skills. It's thinking and reading the game that can be half the battle. And it's also creating some chemistry with your line mates. Without these two things, simply having great skills might not get you very far, especially with how good defences and goalies are nowadays.

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Old
12-02-2013, 09:52 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Where the hell was that the first 20 games of the season. That's the kind of play that earned him a spot in the NHL. Apparently the benchings woke him up..he's gotten progressively better since.

I'd like to see him play like this in the playoffs - he certainly didn't last spring.
He DID play like that in the playoffs against the Bruins when he was first recalled. Best player on a Gionta - Gomez - DD line until he got hurt. Then we lost the series. Coincidence? I think not

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Old
12-02-2013, 10:02 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Well when a player you use for 15-18 minutes/game for nothing else but creating offense has 1 point in his first 19 games with that icetime, obviously success is less likely than when the player gets 8 points in next 7 games in same icetime/role with his injured go to winger back to form.

Call it whatever, but on an ideal lineup you have someone that doesn't need as much maintenance to produce ~40 points. That way, when they don't produce, the team doesn't struggle as much and the rest of the lineup doesn't have to follow as strict of a defensive matchup and be more free to produce as well. At the same time, exploitation lines is best when the player produces at higher end level like Ribeiro. That way, you are getting consistent production and it's worth the effort. Also would be nice if that player can produce without another player sewed to the waist permanently.

NOW with that said, this is based on DD won't suddenly have a career year in production. If he can get ~60 points again playing ~16 minutes instead of the unrealistic 18-20 minutes from 11/12, then it makes much more sense. But I'm highly skeptical this is the case. He's not as bad as he was in the first 19 games, but let's be honest, it's highly unlikely he's good enough to be producing as much as he has in the last 7 games long term. I think he's a high maintenance exploitation 35-45 point player that adds little defensively. I rather have a Bolland who can produce similarly but spread out the D responsibility throughout lineup giving less burden to Plekanec and other lines.



...he's not as good as we thought he was. No good player would 'need' another specific player to produce.
Your calling him high maintenance I feel is also pretty undeserving. Both DD and Max were in a slump. They put them back together and start getting going. But really ever since then they've been producing a lot separately with Max on his own and DD setting up several plays for other players.

DD is contributing daily with many different type of players. He's probably the best passer we have amongst the forwards.

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Old
12-02-2013, 10:03 PM
  #988
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Sweet pass on the first goal

Good puck protection on the second goal

Glad to see him doing well!

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Old
12-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #989
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looks like he's playing on easy-mode

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Old
12-02-2013, 10:39 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
DD's nasty slump is over. Started in Columbus with his SO game winner. Just as I had predicted

The whiners will continue to whine and use every exotic stat they can put their hands on to justify their whining about Desharnais.

I have yet to see one single complaint about Eller possibly bringing down Galchenyuk's productivity even though he clearly is. Playing with a future franchise player and Gallagher most of the time, Larry has exactly ZERO even strength goals since the 3rd game of the season. That's 25 games in a row with no ES goals. Wow.
Eller bringing down Galchenyuk now....Is it me or Galchenyuk is at the top of our forward group for production? Might have help in some way....

The reason why most poeple don't complain about Eller is because he's taking hard minutes and is doing well defensively. He's one of our best ofrward on the PK, Best centerman on the facoff, #1 in hits and blocked shots for a forward but those don't matters i guess....and that's why the hate on DD...if you take out his offensive production, there's nothing left unlike Eller.

Well, it's funny.....caus i've predicted hard times for Galchenyuk the day thoses lines were made. I've also predicted that Gallagher is gonna get hit like crazy on that line and eventualy slow down.

Gallagher scores one ES goal since on that line....in fact he's got only 1pts in his last 6 games. Always had better numbers with Eller.....think about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Your calling him high maintenance I feel is also pretty undeserving. Both DD and Max were in a slump. They put them back together and start getting going. But really ever since then they've been producing a lot separately with Max on his own and DD setting up several plays for other players.

DD is contributing daily with many different type of players. He's probably the best passer we have amongst the forwards.
Let show me DD producing well without our top 2 wingers on his line and all the powerplay in the world and i will agree that he's not high maintenance!!!

But since that never happened.....

Can we go back to the Kids Line now ?
Since he's the best passer, and Patch and DD have such a good chemistry and those 2 are back and DD is contributing so many different type of players.....they should be able to play with Briere, Bourque, Bournival, Moen or Prust now???

I

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Old
12-03-2013, 12:35 AM
  #991
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DD and a (healthy) Patches still have great chemistry. Patches was out injured, or playing with an injury that seemed to hinder his shot, for almost all of DD's slump. Patches now seems to have fully recovered from that early-season injury, so he's doing fantastic again.

The real question is if DD is riding on Patches' coattails, or if Patches is simply better with DD than other center options. If it's the former, then the plan should still be to trade DD. If it's the latter... then Habs management may have some hard decisions to make one day. Patches is probably our best winger, and if he needs DD to be the best that he can be, then...
The answer is Patches just playing better since he came out with a brash statement about the team's offense. Further proof lies in the scoring chances he's been generating while on the PK, without DD being there to feed him.

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12-03-2013, 12:39 AM
  #992
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Wow, some people are comparing Larry to DD, on account of Larry's current slump.

To all the DD gloaters, just remember how insignificant he's going to become as play gets more physical in the 2nd half. He's a mighty mouse with an expiry date and should be sold off as soon as the market will allow, hopefully before his current sheen wears off again.

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12-03-2013, 01:03 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
DD's nasty slump is over. Started in Columbus with his SO game winner. Just as I had predicted

The whiners will continue to whine and use every exotic stat they can put their hands on to justify their whining about Desharnais.

I have yet to see one single complaint about Eller possibly bringing down Galchenyuk's productivity even though he clearly is. Playing with a future franchise player and Gallagher most of the time, Larry has exactly ZERO even strength goals since the 3rd game of the season. That's 25 games in a row with no ES goals. Wow.
I like Eller, but some people on here act like he's the next coming of Bob Gainey. Eller's not a 'great' player.

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12-03-2013, 01:15 AM
  #994
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I for one am quite happy for davey go habs !

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12-03-2013, 01:30 AM
  #995
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Is David Desharnais roaring back?

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12-03-2013, 01:32 AM
  #996
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I'm sorry but Brett Hull would never have scored as many goals as he did without Adam Oates by his side. Hull was one of the best at reading the play and knowing where to position himself to fire off a shot. It's also one of Pacioretty's strengths, but he, like Hull, is not one to create a play all on his own. He can do it every once in a while, but its not his strength to stick handle and deke.

Being a really elite level forward doesn't necessarily mean you have you have to have elite level skills. It's thinking and reading the game that can be half the battle. And it's also creating some chemistry with your line mates. Without these two things, simply having great skills might not get you very far, especially with how good defences and goalies are nowadays.
I mean, if Pacioretty can only be productive with Desharnais, he's not that good. Good players should be reasonably productive with most similar quality talent. Put Plekanec with anyone he puts up points, he's a good player that is extremely versatile. I think Pacioretty can be molded into an all situation winger that can eventually have success on Galchenyuk's wing. But, if his success is actually just tied with Desharnais' success then he's just not that good as I thought.

I think you're selling him short, I see Pacioretty creating a lot of offense on his own. In fact, he set up Desharnais numerous times for tap ins and breakaways on this streak alone. Aside from the defensive side, which he's improving, I think Pacioretty is a complete game forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
DD's nasty slump is over. Started in Columbus with his SO game winner. Just as I had predicted

The whiners will continue to whine and use every exotic stat they can put their hands on to justify their whining about Desharnais.

I have yet to see one single complaint about Eller possibly bringing down Galchenyuk's productivity even though he clearly is. Playing with a future franchise player and Gallagher most of the time, Larry has exactly ZERO even strength goals since the 3rd game of the season. That's 25 games in a row with no ES goals. Wow.
And this is a comment from someone that has no vested interest in the success of the Habs and only cares for Desharnais.

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12-03-2013, 04:17 AM
  #997
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His two points gave Desharnais eight in his past seven games after getting one assist in his first 19 games this season.

"Everyone has always doubted me, so that wasn't the problem. It's when you start doubting yourself that it becomes a problem," Desharnais said "It's about having fun on the ice and playing hockey, not being afraid to make mistakes. When you're afraid of making mistakes you're not on the puck as much, you're not in the play; you sit back a lot instead of being more aggressive."
http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/rec...navid=sb:recap

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12-03-2013, 06:54 AM
  #998
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And that's great, happy that DD has broken out of his slump. The real question is, if Eller and/or Galchenyuk aren't playing well, should they now get the Desharnais treatment to get their confidence back up? Shouldn't they be given o-zone starts / exclusive PP time / Pacioretty on their wing?

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12-03-2013, 06:57 AM
  #999
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DD and a (healthy) Patches still have great chemistry. Patches was out injured, or playing with an injury that seemed to hinder his shot, for almost all of DD's slump. Patches now seems to have fully recovered from that early-season injury, so he's doing fantastic again.

The real question is if DD is riding on Patches' coattails, or if Patches is simply better with DD than other center options. If it's the former, then the plan should still be to trade DD. If it's the latter... then Habs management may have some hard decisions to make one day. Patches is probably our best winger, and if he needs DD to be the best that he can be, then...
He had already broken out and started to play like a really good offensive player before we let that horrible plug DD on the team. He has done better since then but it's probably just gradual improvement. Also, how much of his recent hot streak has Desharnais even been involved in (hint: not many)? And how many was he critical to(hint: even fewer)?

If any GM is dumb enough to take that contract based on this little streak then they have to take advantage of it.

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12-03-2013, 07:21 AM
  #1000
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So this Desharnais vs Eller thing still won't die?

We've been winning with Desharnais playing as an exploitation scorer and Eller playing as a defense first forward. The Habs are coming off an undeserved win but there's little to complain about while it's working. Neither of these guys is our 1C and never will be.


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I like Eller, but some people on here act like he's the next coming of Bob Gainey. Eller's not a 'great' player.
On the other hand, other people refuse to hold Galchenyuk accountable for his own poor play and try to blame it all on Eller. Galchenyuk has still been productive because he's that good, but he's really been hurting in his own end. I wouldn't mind separating them if Eller is going to continue to play his way into the career of a 3rd liner, but I don't know if Galchenyuk can handle being used on the Plek line, and I also don't want a Cunneyworth style concentration of putting all the weapons on one exploitation line at the expense of everyone else.

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