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Old
11-07-2013, 11:52 PM
  #201
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Mistake was not hiring Robinson when he was available. You have a HOF assistant with a proven track record but you rather hire JJ

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11-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Mistake was not hiring Robinson when he was available. You have a HOF assistant with a proven track record but you rather hire JJ
JJ had a pretty good track record with the Rangers' farm team. He helped develop pretty good people down there, apparently.

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11-07-2013, 11:59 PM
  #203
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I'd put my name down as First-To-Eat-Crow if Boucher or Laviolette don't work out.

I think they're both much better choices than this clown.
At the time, neither was available. Therrien isn't exactly a great coach but apart from maybe Hartley who was snatched up before we finished our process, there wasn't much else, English or French.

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11-07-2013, 11:59 PM
  #204
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JJ had a pretty good track record with the Rangers' farm team. He helped develop pretty good people down there, apparently.
I know he did good work with the Rags but were talking about Big Bird here. A guy with a ton of NHL, not AHL experience just ITCHING to come back.

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11-07-2013, 11:59 PM
  #205
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Therrien won't get fired. People are dellusional by thinking he will. He's in there for this season, at least. For Bergevin, this team is still a transitional team. Last year was a mirage.

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11-08-2013, 12:03 AM
  #206
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Bad news, the Rags are playing better, the Caps are playing better, the Islanders are 1 pt behind and I dont see the Habs passing any of the current playoffs teams..

Not alot of positives watching this team play now..

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11-08-2013, 12:04 AM
  #207
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B's fan coming in peace; I was expecting the Habs to be pretty/really good this year after winning the NE division last (short) season. What's their issues? I like watching MTL because they do (when they play good) play an exciting game even though I root against them but I've been working nights lately and haven't caught any games.

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11-08-2013, 12:04 AM
  #208
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Just watched the VOD. Was a little annoyed that the Sens GWG came immediately after the refs miss a blatant off side on Plekanec in the other zone. Gallagher was awful this game.

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11-08-2013, 12:05 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
I know he did good work with the Rags but were talking about Big Bird here. A guy with a ton of NHL, not AHL experience just ITCHING to come back.
There was a lot of drama but maybe I'm confused but didn't Robinson say he was no longer interested?

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11-08-2013, 12:26 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
There was a lot of drama but maybe I'm confused but didn't Robinson say he was no longer interested?
IIRC Therrien saying he didn't want the focus to be on Big Bird because he was a Hab legend.

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11-08-2013, 12:29 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Bruinswillwin77 View Post
B's fan coming in peace; I was expecting the Habs to be pretty/really good this year after winning the NE division last (short) season. What's their issues? I like watching MTL because they do (when they play good) play an exciting game even though I root against them but I've been working nights lately and haven't caught any games.
Ripple effect coming from some asinine bench management and injuries.

Last year the big strength Montreal had was icing a 4th line that played 10-12 minutes a night of very tough defensive hockey against tough opposition, and 3 scoring lines that were all a threat on any given night. The 4th line taking all that crappy ice and doing well (it was Moen-White-Armstrong, they're all good defensive players) opened up easier matchups for the top 9, and combined with Markov-Subban on the power play it made for a potent offence. Emelin really solidified the top 4, giving us Markov, Subban, Emelin, and Gorges all capable of playing top 4 minutes against good opposition, with Diaz on the 3rd pairing with Bouillion (which is an above average 3rd pairing). We dominated possession as other teams were simply outmatched, their best forwards played a bunch of frustrating minutes against the 4th line, and then one of our scoring lines would come on the ice against less defensively sound players who were easier to exploit. The defense were good at moving the puck forward, Markov, Diaz, Emelin, and Subban all had respectable first passes and puck moving ability, and Gorges/Bouillion were acceptable at it. That's what it comes down to, we were the poster children for all the #fancystats, the Habs were bottom 3 in Fenwick close in 2011-12, and in the top 5 until Emelin's injury last year. We were an excellent possession team and just outplayed other teams through a 3 line attack and a reasonably solid D.

Skip ahead to this year, and our 4th line for the past few games has been White centering Parros and one of St. Pierre, Desharnais, or some other scrubs who can't move the puck. This means that our 4th line is just hemorrhaging shots/goals and can't take the tough matchups that they took last year. Almost every time the 4th line goes on the ice, it's in our zone or the back of the net, and Parros is a massive liability, dude's just not a hockey player. This means that the first 3 forward lines get tougher matchups, which makes it harder to get Desharnais going. The other aspect is that the cat's out of the bag on Gallagher and Galchenyuk, people know and respect their talent and teams make plans to handle them and give them extra pressure. So the end result is you have Desharnais in a slump, and the EGG line getting heavier opposition than they're prepared for which has slowed their scoring. Right now the only forward line that's scoring is Plekanec's line, as he's a stud and a seasoned vet who's used to being on an island. Finally, Ryder was productive for us last year and Briere hasn't done much and is currently injured. Granted, Bournival has been playing well in his absence so that's not so bad.

To make matters worse, the strength of the defense was that there were 4 solid guys, one in Diaz who is a fringe top 4 player, and a fairly fresh Bouillion who didn't have to play a ton. This year, we don't have Emelin which means Diaz is overmatched in a top 4 role, and that combined with Therrien's underuse of Subban means that Bouillion and Murray are getting way too much ice and out of necessity are getting cupcake matchups (which means Subban and Markov get tougher ones than they otherwise would). The problem is Bouillion's a year older and declining, and Murray's game's fallen off a cliff to the point where it's hard to call him an NHL calibre defenseman.

So what we're seeing is the cumulative effect of the GM prioritizing face punching and big hits (Parros and Murray) over actually playing hockey. The 4th line and 3rd pairing are so bad at even strength that the coach is almost unable to play them (Parros is getting less than 5 minutes a game, and the 4th line is under 10), which makes for some tired forwards. On D, Therrien's man crush on Bouillion and Murray means that Subban sits on the bench watching Diaz and Murray trip over themselves and 34 year old Markov after 3 knee surgeries gets tough penalty kill minutes that should go to someone younger and stronger...and Norris winninger.

It's not all bad, the team isn't nearly as bad as it's looked the past few games and over time Therrien's hand will be forced into playing the right guys and scratching Parros and Murray. Take those guys out of the lineup in favour of Prust and Emelin and we'll be back to what was working last year, a 4th line of Moen-White-Prust can handle any tough matchups you throw at it, and Emelin will solidify the D so we can stop watching Diaz's passes to nowhere and Murray tripping over the blue line. It's a shame because we don't necessarily have to wait until Emelin and Prust are back, switching Murray out for Tinordi, Pateryn, or Beaulieu and dressing someone on the 4th line who can actually play hockey and take a regular shift would work wonders. If we switched Murray and Parros for Tinordi and Holland/Dumont/random waiver pickup it would go a long way to this team getting back to dominating possession and scoring by committee.

Instead we get caractare, rispeck, Subban sitting on the bench, big minutes and PP time for Desharnais, a man crush on Bouillion, and guys like Murray and Parros who are in the lineup for the sole purpose of hitting and face punching. Can't stress that enough, both Murray and Parros have been absolutely atrocious so far.


Last edited by Noob616: 11-08-2013 at 12:42 AM.
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11-08-2013, 12:37 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Ripple effect coming from some asinine bench management and injuries.

Last year the big strength Montreal had was icing a 4th line that played 10-12 minutes a night of very tough defensive hockey against tough opposition, and 3 scoring lines that were all a threat on any given night. The 4th line taking all that crappy ice and doing well (it was Moen-White-Armstrong, they're all good defensive players) opened up easier matchups for the top 9, and combined with Markov-Subban on the power play it made for a potent offence. Emelin really solidified the top 4, giving us Markov, Subban, Emelin, and Gorges all capable of playing top 4 minutes against good opposition, with Diaz on the 3rd pairing with Bouillion (which is an above average 3rd pairing).

Skip ahead to this year, and our 4th line for the past few games has been White centering Parros and one of St. Pierre, Desharnais, or some other scrubs who can't move the puck. This means that our 4th line is just hemorrhaging shots/goals and can't take the tough matchups that they took last year. Almost every time the 4th line goes on the ice, it's in our zone or the back of the net, and Parros is a massive liability, dude's just not a hockey player. This means that the first 3 forward lines get tougher matchups, which makes it harder to get Desharnais going. The other aspect is that the cat's out of the bag on Gallagher and Galchenyuk, people know and respect their talent and teams make plans to handle him and give him extra pressure. So the end result is you have Desharnais in a slump, and the EGG line getting heavier opposition than they're prepared for which has slowed their scoring. Right now the only forward line that's scoring is Plekanec's line, as he's a stud and a seasoned vet who's used to being on an island. Finally, Ryder was productive for us last year and Briere hasn't done much and is currently injured. Granted, Bournival has been playing well in his absence so that's not so bad.

To make matters worse, the strength of the defense was that there were 4 solid guys, one in Diaz who is a fringe top 4 player, and a fairly fresh Bouillion who didn't have to play a ton. This year, we don't have Emelin which means Diaz is overmatched in a top 4 role, and that combined with Therrien's underuse of Subban means that Bouillion and Murray are getting way too much ice and out of necessity are getting cupcake matchups (which means Subban and Markov get tougher ones than they otherwise would). The problem is Bouillion's a year older and declining, and Murray's game's fallen off a cliff to the point where it's hard to call him an NHL calibre defenseman.

So what we're seeing is the cumulative effect of the GM prioritizing face punching and big hits (Parros and Murray) over actually playing hockey. The 4th line and 3rd pairing are so bad at even strength that the coach is almost unable to play them (Parros is getting less than 5 minutes a game, and the 4th line is under 10), which makes for some tired forwards. On D, Therrien's man crush on Bouillion and Murray means that Subban sits on the bench watching Diaz and Murray trip over themselves and our 34 year old puck mover gets tough penalty kill minutes that should go to someone younger and stronger...and Norris winninger.

It's not all bad, the team isn't nearly as bad as it's looked the past few games and over time Therrien's hand will be forced into playing the right guys and scratching Parros and Murray. Take those guys out of the lineup in favour of Prust and Emelin and we'll be back to what was working last year, a 4th line of Moen-White-Prust can handle any tough matchups you throw at it, and Emelin will solidify the D so we can stop watching Diaz's passes to nowhere and Murray tripping over the blue line.

It's a shame because we don't necessarily have to wait until Emelin and Prust are back, switching Murray out for Tinordi, Pateryn, or Beaulieu and dressing someone on the 4th line who can actually play hockey and take a regular shift would work wonders. If we switched Murray and Parros for Tinordi and Holland/Dumont/random waiver pickup it would go a long way to this team getting back to dominating possession and scoring by committee.
OK thanks for the reply man, very descriptive. You make me feel bad writing a novel over my question but I appreciate the in depth reply. But again, thanks. Bruins vs. Canadiens in errr... a month!

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11-08-2013, 12:39 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Ripple effect coming from some asinine bench management and injuries.

Last year the big strength Montreal had was icing a 4th line that played 10-12 minutes a night of very tough defensive hockey against tough opposition, and 3 scoring lines that were all a threat on any given night. The 4th line taking all that crappy ice and doing well (it was Moen-White-Armstrong, they're all good defensive players) opened up easier matchups for the top 9, and combined with Markov-Subban on the power play it made for a potent offence. Emelin really solidified the top 4, giving us Markov, Subban, Emelin, and Gorges all capable of playing top 4 minutes against good opposition, with Diaz on the 3rd pairing with Bouillion (which is an above average 3rd pairing). We dominated possession as other teams were simply outmatched, their best forwards played a bunch of frustrating minutes against the 4th line, and then one of our scoring lines would come on the ice against less defensively sound players who were easier to exploit. The defense were good at moving the puck forward, Markov, Diaz, Emelin, and Subban all had respectable first passes and puck moving ability, and Gorges/Bouillion were acceptable at it. That's what it comes down to, we were the poster children for all the #fancystats, the Habs were bottom 3 in Fenwick close in 2011-12, and in the top 5 until Emelin's injury last year. We were an excellent possession team and just outplayed other teams through a 3 line attack and a reasonably solid D.

Skip ahead to this year, and our 4th line for the past few games has been White centering Parros and one of St. Pierre, Desharnais, or some other scrubs who can't move the puck. This means that our 4th line is just hemorrhaging shots/goals and can't take the tough matchups that they took last year. Almost every time the 4th line goes on the ice, it's in our zone or the back of the net, and Parros is a massive liability, dude's just not a hockey player. This means that the first 3 forward lines get tougher matchups, which makes it harder to get Desharnais going. The other aspect is that the cat's out of the bag on Gallagher and Galchenyuk, people know and respect their talent and teams make plans to handle him and give him extra pressure. So the end result is you have Desharnais in a slump, and the EGG line getting heavier opposition than they're prepared for which has slowed their scoring. Right now the only forward line that's scoring is Plekanec's line, as he's a stud and a seasoned vet who's used to being on an island. Finally, Ryder was productive for us last year and Briere hasn't done much and is currently injured. Granted, Bournival has been playing well in his absence so that's not so bad.

To make matters worse, the strength of the defense was that there were 4 solid guys, one in Diaz who is a fringe top 4 player, and a fairly fresh Bouillion who didn't have to play a ton. This year, we don't have Emelin which means Diaz is overmatched in a top 4 role, and that combined with Therrien's underuse of Subban means that Bouillion and Murray are getting way too much ice and out of necessity are getting cupcake matchups (which means Subban and Markov get tougher ones than they otherwise would). The problem is Bouillion's a year older and declining, and Murray's game's fallen off a cliff to the point where it's hard to call him an NHL calibre defenseman.

So what we're seeing is the cumulative effect of the GM prioritizing face punching and big hits (Parros and Murray) over actually playing hockey. The 4th line and 3rd pairing are so bad at even strength that the coach is almost unable to play them (Parros is getting less than 5 minutes a game, and the 4th line is under 10), which makes for some tired forwards. On D, Therrien's man crush on Bouillion and Murray means that Subban sits on the bench watching Diaz and Murray trip over themselves and 34 year old Markov after 3 knee surgeries gets tough penalty kill minutes that should go to someone younger and stronger...and Norris winninger.

It's not all bad, the team isn't nearly as bad as it's looked the past few games and over time Therrien's hand will be forced into playing the right guys and scratching Parros and Murray. Take those guys out of the lineup in favour of Prust and Emelin and we'll be back to what was working last year, a 4th line of Moen-White-Prust can handle any tough matchups you throw at it, and Emelin will solidify the D so we can stop watching Diaz's passes to nowhere and Murray tripping over the blue line.

It's a shame because we don't necessarily have to wait until Emelin and Prust are back, switching Murray out for Tinordi, Pateryn, or Beaulieu and dressing someone on the 4th line who can actually play hockey and take a regular shift would work wonders. If we switched Murray and Parros for Tinordi and Holland/Dumont/random waiver pickup it would go a long way to this team getting back to dominating possession and scoring by committee.
This is by far the best post I've read in weeks. Articulated everything I've been thinking into one post. I agree with every single assertion here.

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11-08-2013, 12:43 AM
  #214
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How awesome was the decision by management to deny a very willing Jagr to come to Montreal in favour of Briere? Classic Bergevin.
MB is so stupid. Jagr at his age is much healthier and better than Briere.

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11-08-2013, 12:45 AM
  #215
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Mistake was not hiring Robinson when he was available. You have a HOF assistant with a proven track record but you rather hire JJ
Bergevin and Therrien wanted to interview Robinson but he could not come down.
Maybe Robinson would have gotten the job.
But you can not blame JJD on this and as far as I am concerned, he is doing a pretty good job.

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11-08-2013, 12:48 AM
  #216
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At the time, neither was available. Therrien isn't exactly a great coach but apart from maybe Hartley who was snatched up before we finished our process, there wasn't much else, English or French.
I am pretty sure that Hartley talked to Bergevin before signing with the Flames.

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11-08-2013, 12:56 AM
  #217
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Some of your overreactions are endearingly awful.

Great read.

Keep it up.

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11-08-2013, 01:04 AM
  #218
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We are just average team, fighting for final playoff-spot. Firing Therrien doesnt change a fact that few key pieces from roster are still missing. We need quality players. End of story.

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11-08-2013, 01:07 AM
  #219
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The problem with this team is simple, the D is not very good and there is no good fourth line. Desharnais has been the worse NHL forward so far this season. The fourth line is terrible, you cannot win hockey games without an effective fourth line. Murray is quite slow and I honestly don't see what Bouillon brings to this team anymore. Diaz is soft and another redundant version of what this team already has in Subban and Markov. You cannot ask anything more from Gorges or Plekanec, they are effective at what they do, so trading them as some of you suggested will only hurt the team. Bourque is also a big forward the Habs desperately need on their lineup right now.

Also Price doesn't seem all there. His focus at times is not very good. The same issues plague Price since he started playing with the Habs. That being said, he is an elite goalie however with Price you can expect the best or the worst. The same goes with Subban, who has amazing offensive talent but is prone to giveaways. The Habs simply do not have the right D to reverse Subban's mistakes. Also, Markov is not the player he used to be. If Price can't stop a few bouncing pucks then this team is doomed. With Price, you can expect a lot of garbage goals by other teams. Price is not very good when it comes to stopping pucks in the air.

Hopefully with Emelin back the Habs have a big shutdown D that could help and Murray can be scratched. Bouillon can finally get less minutes. And finally Tinordi and Beaulieu could see some action. Also, Parros can focus on what he is good for, fighting.

So the solutions are quite easy to apply, fix the 4th line and the D. Get rid of Desharnais. Bergevin cannot be blamed for giving him that 4 year contract at 3.5 mil/year. Players like Desharnais come and go in the NHL, he had a fluke season. Also, Desharnais is a francophone. Bergevin made mistakes, so have the best GMs in the league.

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11-08-2013, 01:16 AM
  #220
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Some of your overreactions are endearingly awful.

Great read.

Keep it up.
Overreactions are subjective and also are subjected to the human rationality. You might not be aware of all the facts, but it's time to PANIC.

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11-08-2013, 01:23 AM
  #221
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Overreactions are subjective and also are subjected to the human rationality. You might not be aware of all the facts, but it's time to PANIC.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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11-08-2013, 01:29 AM
  #222
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Overreactions are subjective and also are subjected to the human rationality. You might not be aware of all the facts, but it's time to PANIC.
Disagree. I wrote a pretty negative novel up there but it's not panic time. Emelin comes back, we stop dressing Parros, and we're fine.

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11-08-2013, 01:55 AM
  #223
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There was a lot of drama but maybe I'm confused but didn't Robinson say he was no longer interested?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
IIRC Therrien saying he didn't want the focus to be on Big Bird because he was a Hab legend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Bergevin and Therrien wanted to interview Robinson but he could not come down.
Maybe Robinson would have gotten the job.
But you can not blame JJD on this and as far as I am concerned, he is doing a pretty good job.
Bergevin obtained permission from lamoriello to speak with Robinson.

Robinson expressed interest but had to delay a face to face meeting with Bergevin as he was dealing with the destruction of his horse ranch in Florida.

Bergevin hired JJD on the spot without interviewing Robinson.

The so called Due Diligence that resulted in Bergevin, Therrien, and others being hired is really a joke.

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11-08-2013, 02:15 AM
  #224
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Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I was sorta joking not really about the last part.

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Disagree. I wrote a pretty negative novel up there but it's not panic time. Emelin comes back, we stop dressing Parros, and we're fine.
I don't know what's with this board and Emelin.. he's average defensively at best. He's not a savior and not the reason why our team went down the drain when injured. He's the mythical unicorn that everyone latches on to that will solve all our problems.


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11-08-2013, 02:17 AM
  #225
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seriously antichambre? ragging on galagher for driving too hard? if everyone on this team only had one of his balls.

anyweyz, need more superstars/talent or you're in perpetual mediocrity. gio-desharnais-briere, 12 million better spent elsewhere.
I get the uneasy feeling that Gallagher is going to facilitate my hair loss as I watch him wreck havoc in the Senator's goal crease for many years to come. He's a fantastic player and you guys are extremely lucky to have him. He and Lehner are likely to become well acquainted.

Montreal has a wealth of great talent (Eller, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Price, Subban,... to name a few). I think the Leafs, Habs and Sens are all teams that are poised to re-arrange the status quo in respect to power rankings of the Eastern Conference over the next few years.

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