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Old
09-29-2003, 11:05 AM
  #1
Mowzie
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the west

this is kinda like the "man is the east in trouble" thread.

Dallas- lost Hatcher and Sydor and got Numinnen. not going to be as solid defensively.

Detroit- i think cujo will go in waiver draft, the hasek will not be the elite goalie he was 3 yrs ago. leaving detroit in a bad situation.

Colorado- goaltending?

Vancouver- probably tuzzi's last year there. not a whole lot of offensive depth and 2 backup goalies who need to prove they can shoulder the load.

St. Louis- once again goaltending here is an issue. solid defense though.

L.A- injury proned stars might make it another long year for king fans.

S.J- have to rebound from a bad season, alot of potential but the losses of selanne and nolan might be too steep of a mountain to climb.

Anaheim- Although they do ice a good team, they lost alot of pieces from last years drive, and have alot of unanswered questions. no kariya, no oates, no thomas. will Jiggy have the same kind of year Theodore had after her got the fat contract?

Edmonton- Salo must rebound. Good top 4 defense, but nothing but question marks for the 5th, 6th and 7th. great balance in forward positions, but must sign comrie or get fair market value for him.

Minnesota- No Gaborik? no offense?

Calgary- making strides to contend for a playoff spot, but defense is a question mark and Turek has to recover from his so-so season.

Chicago- bad season, bad fan base, must forget about fleury debacle to stay in playoff race, but might not have the balance a team needs to crack the top 8.

Pheonix- Burke is good, but getting old, if health is an issue for him this year, the wayne gretzky better get on the horn and starts hoppin for a new #1 goalie.

Nashville- not a whole lot of anything here, still a few years away form making some noise, must develop a minnesota style trap system to find success with their roster.

Columbus- making moves, if their young goalie can steal some games then watch out, but not enough depth yet, marchant as #1 centre might not work outside of Edmonton.

Ultimately, i think that the west can be broken down into 3 catergories
The Elite
The Middle of the pack
and The Bottom feeders.

The Elite
Dallas
Detroit
Colorado

The Middle
Edmonton
Vancouver
LA
SJ
Calgary
St. Louis
Anaheim

The Bottom
Pheonix
Chicago
CBJ
Nashville
Minnesota

The Standings...

Dallas- 109 pts
Detroit- 108 pts
Colorado- 106 pts
Vancouver- 104 pts
St. Louis- 101 pts
Edmonton- 100 pts
L.A- 99 PTS
Anaheim- 98 pts.
------------
San Jose- 98 pts.
Calgary- 92 pts
Minnesota- 90 pts.
Chicago- 86 pts.
Pheonix- 84 pts.
Columbus- 80 pts
Nashville- 77 pts.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:12 AM
  #2
Ajacied
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I agree with your post..

Just flip the Avs at the top of the standings, they will make some regular season noise. Different story in the postseason though.

Edmonton.. WAAAAAAAY too high.. 90 points should be the number they should concentrate on, and they should be happy when they accomplish that.

I also have the Blues above the Wings in the regular season standings, again, different story in the playoffs.

Season:

1) Colorado
2) Dallas
3) St.Louis
4) Vancouver
5) Detroit
6) Anaheim
7) Los Angeles
8) Minnesota/Edmonton/San Jose.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:12 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
Columbus- making moves, if their young goalie can steal some games then watch out, but not enough depth yet, marchant as #1 centre might not work outside of Edmonton.

Marhcant wont be a #1 center in Columbus. Andrew Cassels is.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:24 AM
  #4
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
L.A- injury proned stars might make it another long year for king fans.
If Allison will play 3/4 of the season then there is hope. The loss of Adam Deadmarsh is hard but we could handle this loss.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:27 AM
  #5
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The Canucks had such poor offensive depth, we finished only 2nd in goals for last year, and 1st the year before that.

Our problem is not offensive depth, it's the lack of an impact player on the 2nd line & goaltending questions.

If you ask me, the West looks like this.. these are overall rankings for the top 10 of the West, not how things will finish in the regular season:

1 - Dallas: Hatcher, smatcher. Sydor will be missed mind you, but Boucher is very, very good. Defensivly, this team shouldn't have many problems. Dallas has the most balanced & best forwards in the league if you ask me.

2 - Anaheim: A lot hinges on Giguere having another good season, but if he does, the Ducks could be the best team in the West in the playoffs. While this isn't a regular season powerhouse, the Ducks are a virtual carbon-copy of the Devils out East in terms of style. Are there any doubts that Sergei Fedorov will be a huge help here? Discredit this team all you want, but Brian Murray has done an incredible job, as has Mike Babcock.

3 - Detroit: Very close second. The Wings won't have trouble scoring, they were 1st in goals for last year and only lost a couple guys,and gained a couple back. The questions Detroit have are in net (can Hasek play great?) and up the middle. I'll bet money that neither are too much of a problem.

4 - Vancouver: Goaltending questions, but Hedberg is there. Scoring questions, but the Sedin's starting their 4th year & Arvedson should help. One of the more balanced teams out there.

5 - Colorado: Great top 6, great top 4, but Colorado's depth on both defense & offense look like an expansion teams'. Goaltending even worse than that. Lacroix will fix this mind you, and this team will move up the charts when he does. For now, here Colorado sits.

6 - St.Louis: Such an underrated team on these boards. St.Louis only really has one big issue if you ask me, and that's goaltending. And for all the flak Osgood gets, he can win big games. The Blues have one of the best defenses in the league - Quenneville is very adept here. The Blues could win the Cup this year, I feel they are potentially a big-time contender this year.

7 - Los Angelas: There's really no reason why the Kings don't do a lot better than they show every year. Maybe it's their coach - I personally don't think it is. Injuries can be an excuse one year, but not two or three. It's time for the Kings to stop jerking around and take the next step.

8 - Minnesota: Some might think they are too high, some too low, but the Wild without Dupuis & Gaborik are still a good team, but not great. Lemaire is clearly the MVP of this team, but Roloson is a very good goaltender too, Fernandez has his moments as well. If the Wild can find scoring, they could potentially be a team to upset a tema or two again next year.

9 - Edmonton: Pretty weak depth-wise in all positions, but good scoring and tough hockey. The Oilers are a shadow of their formal self and are a Ryan Smyth trade away from being in rebuilding mode. Tommy Salo has to play well or this team is kaput.

10 - Columbus: To me, this seems like a team that could win a round or two in the playoffs. The Jackets have a lot of good veterans. They built their team with the thought that if you mix young & old players around well enough, you can get some success. We will see, but if the Jackets sneak into the playoffs, they could be a tough team to face - if they get a new coach.

As for season rankings, I'd put 'em something like this:

1 - St.Louis
2 - Vancouver
3 - Dallas
4 - Colorado
5 - St.Louis
6 - Anaheim
7 - Nashville
8 - Los Angelas
-----------------

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:40 AM
  #6
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt
Avs different in the post season though ? Do you actually think Lacroix goes into the playoffs with Aebischer ? We all know Lacroix makes major trades at the deadline , there's no reason to think different .
Look at the team, there's still Aebischer right there. Until they've ACTUALLY upgraded him, the Avs will not be a threat for the Cup.

You are just like the rest, predicting the Avs will go all the way based on a wishful trade that might never happen in the first place.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:52 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Look at the team, there's still Aebischer right there. Until they've ACTUALLY upgraded him, the Avs will not be a threat for the Cup.

You are just like the rest, predicting the Avs will go all the way based on a wishful trade that might never happen in the first place.
hey, don't be overly biased here. with the forwards and defensemen the Avs have, they are MOST CERTAINLY a threat for the Cup. how Aebischer performs, or if he is replaced with someone better, will determine whether they go from Cup threat to Cup favorite.

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Old
09-29-2003, 11:54 AM
  #8
Frolov 6'3
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Lets just wait to Aebischer's performance in the regular season and then we could give a fair opinion about him. So far he's excellent in the pre-season. Perhaps it's not even necessary to replace him in the PO.

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:00 PM
  #9
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
hey, don't be overly biased here. with the forwards and defensemen the Avs have, they are MOST CERTAINLY a threat for the Cup. how Aebischer performs, or if he is replaced with someone better, will determine whether they go from Cup threat to Cup favorite.
Not with Aebischer.. for a team that has always relied on Roy, and for a team where Roy always gave the Stars and Wings the most trouble, they just don't scare me anymore.

Besides their top 6 that is.. but scoring was never an issue anyway..

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:15 PM
  #10
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Season Rankings(points):

Dallas: Will edge out Colorado and win the West. Loss of Hatcher will no doubt hurt in the playoffs but Boucher and Matvichuk will step up IMO, plus the Stars have the best forward depth in the West.

Colorado: Top 6 forwards, enough said. Defence is thin however, and one big injury to Blake or Foote and the Avs are in *defensive* trouble.

Vancouver: Underrated offensive juggernaut. The likes of Naslund,Bertuzzi,Morrison, and the Sedins can only get better. Lack of defensive ''stoppers'' to push them over the top, though.

Detroit: Old, very old. How much longer can Hull keep burrying the puck? Yzerman belongs in a trophy case, not on the ice, Shanahan has slowed over the years. Oh and BTW, Detroits defence is the best in recent memory.

St.Louis: Pronger. Pronger. Pronger. This guy is the best defenceman in the NHL, period. With a *healthy* Pronger the Blues will always be in contention. However losing the likes of Rucinsky,Stillman, and Bure cant help.

Anaheim: Fedorov fully compensates for the lose of Kariya (upgrade?) where as Prospal adds some much needed scoring depth. We'll wait and see if Giguere is the next Theodore, too.

Los Angeles: I like the addition of Robitaille back in Hollywood. Somehow, Lucky seems to always get his goals while wearing the Kings jersey. Oh yah, Palffy, Allsion, and Deadmarsh are no slouches either.

Calgary: Thats right, the Flames will snag the 8th playoff spot. Look for an amazing year from Iginla, and a ''come-back'' year from Turek. The Flames will be formed into a cult by Darryl Sutter. Look for this years Minnesota Wild to be the Flames.

9-Edmonton
10-Columbus
11-Minnesota
12-San Jose
13-Chicago
14-Nashville
15-Phoenix

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:23 PM
  #11
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt
If Naslund or Bertuzzi gets injured , the Canucks are in trouble . They won't even make the playoffs if one them are injured .
So you're saying Naslund or Bertuzzi carried the Canucks on their backs all the way to 104 points last season? What are they legends or something?

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:42 PM
  #12
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
So you're saying Naslund or Bertuzzi carried the Canucks on their backs all the way to 104 points last season? What are they legends or something?
Together with Morrison, yes. (almost )
It's nonsense to say they wouldn't make the PO if one of them is injured.

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:56 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3
Together with Morrison, yes. (almost )
It's nonsense to say they wouldn't make the PO if one of them is injured.
If *both* Naslund and Bertuzzi miss over 50 games, then yes, the Nucks probably wouldnt make the playoffs.

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Old
09-29-2003, 01:35 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
If *both* Naslund and Bertuzzi miss over 50 games, then yes, the Nucks probably wouldnt make the playoffs.
If BOTH Naslund & Bertuzzi are out for at least 50 games,then Vancouver WOULD NOT make the playoffs. If either Nazzy or Bert was out for 50 games or more, then they would PROBABLY make the playoffs,but barely. Outside of Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi,who could turn it on all of a sudden? The Sedin girls??

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Old
09-29-2003, 02:06 PM
  #15
mmbt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Not with Aebischer.. for a team that has always relied on Roy, and for a team where Roy always gave the Stars and Wings the most trouble, they just don't scare me anymore.

Besides their top 6 that is.. but scoring was never an issue anyway..
Yes, it can't be ignored just how big a part of things Roy was. He stole them a number of critical games over the years during those tight playoff series. You don't think of a powerhouse like Colorado needing their goalie to steal games, but it happened.

They're still an unpleasant opponent due to their top 6, but they currently resemble the '95 (Fiset/Thibault) or '93 (Hextall) Nords more than they do the '96 (Roy) Avs. All three were loaded in terms of skaters, but that clearly isn't enough on its own.

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09-29-2003, 02:40 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
So you're saying Naslund or Bertuzzi carried the Canucks on their backs all the way to 104 points last season? What are they legends or something?

Dear god! I really hope you aren't arguing that the Canucks can survive without Nazzy or Bertuzzi are you? The Canucks have almost no secondary scoring.

And for all you people saying blah blah only x% of our points came from those two consider the fact that most teams played their best checkers again that top line. If either Nazzy or Tuzzi goes down (esp. Nazzy) those checkers can concentrate on the rest of the team.

I like the nucks, I really do. They play a fast paced up-tempo game. But that game is based on the WCE. Take that line away (like Minnie did in the playoffs) and the nucks die quickly...

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Old
09-29-2003, 03:48 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weight39
If BOTH Naslund & Bertuzzi are out for at least 50 games,then Vancouver WOULD NOT make the playoffs. If either Nazzy or Bert was out for 50 games or more, then they would PROBABLY make the playoffs,but barely. Outside of Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi,who could turn it on all of a sudden? The Sedin girls??

Good luck watching Blues games when Pronger re-activates his wrist injury .

BTW, those ''sisters'' sure played well against the Blues in the first round last year eh?

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Old
09-29-2003, 04:20 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Dear god! I really hope you aren't arguing that the Canucks can survive without Nazzy or Bertuzzi are you? The Canucks have almost no secondary scoring.

And for all you people saying blah blah only x% of our points came from those two consider the fact that most teams played their best checkers again that top line. If either Nazzy or Tuzzi goes down (esp. Nazzy) those checkers can concentrate on the rest of the team.

I like the nucks, I really do. They play a fast paced up-tempo game. But that game is based on the WCE. Take that line away (like Minnie did in the playoffs) and the nucks die quickly...
I cannot grasp how over-inflated this pseudo-problem is on these boards.

The Canucks are fine....outside of the WCE they score by committee...yes that's true.

And someone made some idiotic comment about Vancouver's defensive depth....they have loads of defensive depth as well as some of the slickest defensive forwards in the league.

Our weakness lies in net...as well as the lack of a second line sniper...which Arvedson is not unfortunately....the Canucks are one additional 60-70 point player away from being serious contenders in my mind...assuming Hedburg returns to the form we saw a few years ago.

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Old
09-29-2003, 07:16 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
Calgary- making strides to contend for a playoff spot, but defense is a question mark and Turek has to recover from his so-so season.
Huh? Calgary's defense is among the top half of the league, maybe even top 10.

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:02 PM
  #20
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta
Huh? Calgary's defense is among the top half of the league, maybe even top 10.
The Flames d-core isnt near the top 10 in the league, in fact its bottom 10 IMO .

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:08 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta
Huh? Calgary's defense is among the top half of the league, maybe even top 10.
Tops in potential, low in experience. Maybe you can say that is true 3 years from now.

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:16 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
The Flames d-core isnt near the top 10 in the league, in fact its bottom 10 IMO .
I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous statement IMO. Am I truly being a homer to say Calgary has a top 20 d-core?

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Old
09-29-2003, 08:58 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Good luck watching Blues games when Pronger re-activates his wrist injury .

BTW, those ''sisters'' sure played well against the Blues in the first round last year eh?
Yes,but where were the girls against Minnesota?? That's what I'm talking about when I say the Canucks don't have any players that can "turn it on all of a sudden" behind Nazzy & Bert. God help the Canucks & their fans if those two,or even ONE of them goes down. St. Louis proved they can compete when injuries ravaged their goalies,their #1 d-man & captain was out for majority of season,their #1 LW,Tkachuk,was in & out of lineup,and #2 center,Weight,was in & out of the lineup as well. Vancouver would implode if that happened to them. And that's a fact.

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Old
09-29-2003, 09:30 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weight39
Yes,but where were the girls against Minnesota?? That's what I'm talking about when I say the Canucks don't have any players that can "turn it on all of a sudden" behind Nazzy & Bert. God help the Canucks & their fans if those two,or even ONE of them goes down. St. Louis proved they can compete when injuries ravaged their goalies,their #1 d-man & captain was out for majority of season,their #1 LW,Tkachuk,was in & out of lineup,and #2 center,Weight,was in & out of the lineup as well. Vancouver would implode if that happened to them. And that's a fact.
St.Louis also has 20 million dollars more to spend on it's payroll.

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Old
09-29-2003, 10:52 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt
You think Colorado's 3rd line of Battaglia Nikolishin and McCormick is like an expansion teams ?
Liles and Skrastins too ?
uh...yes. Do you actually think that Battaglia-Nikolishin-McCormick is a good 3rd line and that Liles and Skrastins are a solid defensive pair?

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