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All rumors from November 8 involving Edmonton

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Old
11-15-2013, 02:29 AM
  #451
dats81
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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
A top 4 defensemen for three 2nd round picks is horrible, in my opinion. This isn't a video game where you just have to match values on each side. Hope Homer came back at him with four 2nd round picks for Eberle.
It's horribad for a top-4 defenseman in his prime who can skate like Coburn does.... especially now as Coburn has picked up his game and looks good again.

But let's not forget that this was just the initial proposal. Homer probably could have gotten a 1st and two seconds or similar including prospects if he was beating the drum.

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11-15-2013, 05:21 AM
  #452
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But let's not forget that this was just the initial proposal. Homer probably could have gotten a 1st and two seconds or similar including prospects if he was beating the drum.
I am not so sure. MacTavish seems like he is scared to lose a deal. If you not willing to give up potentially the best asset, then it will be hard to acquire anything in this league except salary dumps and trouble makers. And in Oilers case, that in itself is hard because of the proliferation of no-trade clauses and very few players wanting to play in Edmonton. Holmgren has made some bad deals but at least he has the courage to make them. Not too many other GMs do.

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11-15-2013, 07:23 AM
  #453
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I am not so sure. MacTavish seems like he is scared to lose a deal. If you not willing to give up potentially the best asset, then it will be hard to acquire anything in this league except salary dumps and trouble makers. And in Oilers case, that in itself is hard because of the proliferation of no-trade clauses and very few players wanting to play in Edmonton. Holmgren has made some bad deals but at least he has the courage to make them. Not too many other GMs do.
I'm not so sure I blame him actually. The only real assets the Oilers have are in the potential of their young forwards. After that, there's not much that separates them from an AHL team. If he were to lose a trade involving one of their young guns (Yakupov, Eberle, etc.), it would leave the franchise in shambles.

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11-15-2013, 07:37 AM
  #454
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Wow, Coburns suddenly getting praised like the next coming....

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11-15-2013, 07:52 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I'm not so sure I blame him actually. The only real assets the Oilers have are in the potential of their young forwards. After that, there's not much that separates them from an AHL team. If he were to lose a trade involving one of their young guns (Yakupov, Eberle, etc.), it would leave the franchise in shambles.
They have been in shambles for awhile now, they need to balance their team and make it competitive again, losing one of those young forwards is what its going to take, Edm isn't 1 or 2 players away from being a playoff team they need much more, and the right players with balance, you can't win on pure finnese and skill these days, you need grinders, two-way forwards, leadership and experience, and in Edm's case goal tending as well
But my my point is that Mac T is going to have to "play ball" and to improve his team someone has to go, to bring in change because what they have been doing as an organization for the last couple of years isn't working at all

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11-15-2013, 07:57 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by kevindank View Post
Wow, Coburns suddenly getting praised like the next coming....
I was liking Coburn before it was cool......

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11-15-2013, 09:28 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Whatever it was, I disagree.
I disagree with that.

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11-15-2013, 10:01 AM
  #458
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Coburn is what he is-- inconsistent (sometimes good, sometimes bad). HFboards overvalues picks.

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11-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
So the issue with Coburn... isn't so much Coburn, but more our lack of a #1 D-man and having to use him as one.
This comment is spot on. It's about expectations. He's being forced into a role with unreasonable expectations because we don't have a Pronger, Weber or Chara.

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11-15-2013, 11:03 AM
  #460
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im a little bit late to this but i am in favor of going out and getting evander kane i really like the kid he has great hands he can skate he can actually shoot and make the goalie have to save the puck instead of watch it go wide, he can hit he can fight he can and will be a top line goal scoring winger capable of 40 goalie seasons playing alongside giroux

but what would we be willing to give up for him?? in all honesty id give coots and a 2nd or 3rd

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11-15-2013, 11:25 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I'm not so sure I blame him actually. The only real assets the Oilers have are in the potential of their young forwards. After that, there's not much that separates them from an AHL team. If he were to lose a trade involving one of their young guns (Yakupov, Eberle, etc.), it would leave the franchise in shambles.
The problem is Edmonton is stuck in a perpetual rebuild. They need to upgrade their defense and goaltending, which traditional takes awhile to develop. The reason Chicago's rebuild worked so well was that Keith and Seabrook played two full seasons at the NHL before they added Kane and toews to the lineup. Plus Chicago was able to add impact free agents like Campbell and later Hossa to get them over the hump into the playoffs and then to a Stanley cup respectively. I like Schultz and Kleftbom but young defensemen typically don't hit their stride at the NHL level until year 4 in the league so it will be a couple years before they are ready to anchor the defense. And since Edmonton has always had trouble attracting big name free agents, they have to add thru trade. Do the fans have patience for a few more losing seasons while the young defensemen develop and what will a few more losing seasons due to the kids already their?

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11-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The problem is Edmonton is stuck in a perpetual rebuild. They need to upgrade their defense and goaltending, which traditional takes awhile to develop. The reason Chicago's rebuild worked so well was that Keith and Seabrook played two full seasons at the NHL before they added Kane and toews to the lineup. Plus Chicago was able to add impact free agents like Campbell and later Hossa to get them over the hump into the playoffs and then to a Stanley cup respectively. I like Schultz and Kleftbom but young defensemen typically don't hit their stride at the NHL level until year 4 in the league so it will be a couple years before they are ready to anchor the defense. And since Edmonton has always had trouble attracting big name free agents, they have to add thru trade. Do the fans have patience for a few more losing seasons while the young defensemen develop and what will a few more losing seasons due to the kids already their?
Exactly! Not every kid is going to come in and dominate like Crosby or Ovechkin and fix all of your problems. It might just take some solid veteran leadership, or a good coach to get them to gel right to get things working.

Tanking for years and years is also not a guaranteed way to successfully rebuild. We've seen some great examples of teams turning it around recently, but there are also teams out there that have tried that and failed.

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11-15-2013, 12:02 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by kelmitchell View Post
im a little bit late to this but i am in favor of going out and getting evander kane i really like the kid he has great hands he can skate he can actually shoot and make the goalie have to save the puck instead of watch it go wide, he can hit he can fight he can and will be a top line goal scoring winger capable of 40 goalie seasons playing alongside giroux

but what would we be willing to give up for him?? in all honesty id give coots and a 2nd or 3rd
No way would I do that. Looks to be a pretty lateral move.

I think a lot of folks forget that Couts has a deadly wrist shot. I really think a lack of confidence has messed him up recently. He looks to be second guessing what to do every time he touches the puck around the other teams net, which is enough to give teams time to block the shot or make the save.

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Old
11-15-2013, 12:36 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by kelmitchell View Post
im a little bit late to this but i am in favor of going out and getting evander kane i really like the kid he has great hands he can skate he can actually shoot and make the goalie have to save the puck instead of watch it go wide, he can hit he can fight he can and will be a top line goal scoring winger capable of 40 goalie seasons playing alongside giroux

but what would we be willing to give up for him?? in all honesty id give coots and a 2nd or 3rd
As much as I like B.Schenn, I would move him before Couturier for E. Kane. But I doubt Winnipeg would trade Kane for Schenn straight up and I wouldn't do that trade either right now.
Schenns value right now isn't where it was when we acquired him. Selling low now would be a big mistake I think.
Also a young #1-2 PMD would be much more important than that scoring winger for G.

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11-15-2013, 12:43 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The problem is Edmonton is stuck in a perpetual rebuild. They need to upgrade their defense and goaltending, which traditional takes awhile to develop. The reason Chicago's rebuild worked so well was that Keith and Seabrook played two full seasons at the NHL before they added Kane and toews to the lineup. Plus Chicago was able to add impact free agents like Campbell and later Hossa to get them over the hump into the playoffs and then to a Stanley cup respectively. I like Schultz and Kleftbom but young defensemen typically don't hit their stride at the NHL level until year 4 in the league so it will be a couple years before they are ready to anchor the defense. And since Edmonton has always had trouble attracting big name free agents, they have to add thru trade. Do the fans have patience for a few more losing seasons while the young defensemen develop and what will a few more losing seasons due to the kids already their?
Pretty much. The Oilers added the forwards before some of the defensemen that they have high hopes for. It's going to take many years before guys like Nurse and Klefbom are ready to really lead that unit. Unfortunatley, most of the young forwards will already be in their mid-twenties. Obviously they won't be out of their primes, but they certainly wont' be young anymore.

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Old
11-15-2013, 12:59 PM
  #466
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they had 3 #1 picks in a row, all I know is if this team had that and we still sucked, everybody from Snider down would've been fired several times.

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Old
11-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Pretty much. The Oilers added the forwards before some of the defensemen that they have high hopes for. It's going to take many years before guys like Nurse and Klefbom are ready to really lead that unit. Unfortunatley, most of the young forwards will already be in their mid-twenties. Obviously they won't be out of their primes, but they certainly wont' be young anymore.
Not to mention being apart of a losing culture their entire career is bound to effect some of their forwards by the time the defense is ready.

I think Philly's situation is a little similar to the Edmonton's though not as bad. The flyers have a nice young group of forwards but not much as far as young nhl ready defenseman. They will be adding from the group of Morin, Hagg, Gostisbehere, and Alt into the lineup right when the forwards will be in their primes in 3 years. I think the flyers should be proactive and add in a at least one young top 4 guy now by moving a forward.

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11-15-2013, 04:30 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The problem is Edmonton is stuck in a perpetual rebuild. They need to upgrade their defense and goaltending, which traditional takes awhile to develop. The reason Chicago's rebuild worked so well was that Keith and Seabrook played two full seasons at the NHL before they added Kane and toews to the lineup. Plus Chicago was able to add impact free agents like Campbell and later Hossa to get them over the hump into the playoffs and then to a Stanley cup respectively. I like Schultz and Kleftbom but young defensemen typically don't hit their stride at the NHL level until year 4 in the league so it will be a couple years before they are ready to anchor the defense. And since Edmonton has always had trouble attracting big name free agents, they have to add thru trade. Do the fans have patience for a few more losing seasons while the young defensemen develop and what will a few more losing seasons due to the kids already their?
Look at the Flyers. We are in a similar situation. We traded 1 F for a D and it has backfired massively. Unfortunately, we will have to do it again though and hope we fare better. That is why I would do the Simmonds for Kulikov deal. We know more about Simmonds peak value than we do about Schenn or Couts. Keep the kids with much higher upside. But I also do my best to find ANY trade to get rid on Mez....like Mez for Samuelsson and Eaves.

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11-15-2013, 06:06 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by kelmitchell View Post
im a little bit late to this but i am in favor of going out and getting evander kane i really like the kid he has great hands he can skate he can actually shoot and make the goalie have to save the puck instead of watch it go wide, he can hit he can fight he can and will be a top line goal scoring winger capable of 40 goalie seasons playing alongside giroux

but what would we be willing to give up for him?? in all honesty id give coots and a 2nd or 3rd
Or we can draft a sniper and not give up our top defensive center.

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11-15-2013, 11:46 PM
  #470
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This has probably been discussed 4000 times but i'm too lazy to go back and look. What would Philly realistically be willing to part with to get Eberle? Do you guys even want him?

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11-16-2013, 12:53 AM
  #471
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This has probably been discussed 4000 times but i'm too lazy to go back and look. What would Philly realistically be willing to part with to get Eberle? Do you guys even want him?
I think we're bad trading partners on this deal. You would hope for defense, yes? The only D we can really give up are Mez and Gill. Schenn too I guess since apparently the org hates him or something. I doubt you as a fan would be terribly interested in any of them, and if you are I have an opportunity for you to buy 50 pounds of dirt at the low price of 500 bucks per oz.

I'm not terribly creative at making trades, but honestly I don't think the Flyers have the expendable assets to do much wheeling and dealing right now.

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11-16-2013, 01:24 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm not terribly creative at making trades, but honestly I don't think the Flyers have the expendable assets to do much wheeling and dealing right now.
Agreed. While I think us fans would all love to have Eberle, I can't see a deal being made that wouldn't leave another hole for the Flyers. The most I would do is Simmonds + picks (not a 1st) and I know that's not enough.

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11-16-2013, 06:40 PM
  #473
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This has probably been discussed 4000 times but i'm too lazy to go back and look. What would Philly realistically be willing to part with to get Eberle? Do you guys even want him?
If you had not give Smid away, a deal that was regularly talked about was Simmonds and Coburn for Eberle and Smid, with Philly maybe adding a little more.

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11-16-2013, 07:34 PM
  #474
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If you had not give Smid away, a deal that was regularly talked about was Simmonds and Coburn for Eberle and Smid, with Philly maybe adding a little more.
This deal was talked about by people around here, I don't think the Oilers ever talked about this. Homer may have said it, but the conversation ended there. They gave Smid away for a lot less than he was worth, but I simply can't imagine a world where they'd give up a 23 year old player who looks like he's a lock for 65-85 points a year (and Smid) for a grinder and pretty much the same player/or a slight upgrade in Coburn.

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11-17-2013, 03:02 AM
  #475
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If you had not give Smid away, a deal that was regularly talked about was Simmonds and Coburn for Eberle and Smid, with Philly maybe adding a little more.
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This deal was talked about by people around here, I don't think the Oilers ever talked about this. Homer may have said it, but the conversation ended there. They gave Smid away for a lot less than he was worth, but I simply can't imagine a world where they'd give up a 23 year old player who looks like he's a lock for 65-85 points a year (and Smid) for a grinder and pretty much the same player/or a slight upgrade in Coburn.
I can't be the only one who wouldn't want to do this deal right... Right ?

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