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How bad is Bishop for Conacher?

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Old
11-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #76
TheDaysOf 04
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It's not a bad trade for Ottawa, but it turned out to be a very good trade for us. Conacher imo is going to be a good player. He's young but still very promising. Give it time.

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Old
11-08-2013, 05:18 PM
  #77
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Bishop looked great last night especially that save on Gordon

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11-08-2013, 05:43 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWJ View Post
That's because it's completely fabricated. Read was never on the table.

The Conacher-Bishop deal happened for a few reasons:
1. Lehner was unhappy playing in the AHL and visibly ready for NHL competition
2. Anderson was about to return from injury, giving us three goaltenders and only two spots
3. Bishop had been the weakest of the three goalies
4. Ottawa was decimated by injuries and preferred a roster player over a pick
5. Our offence was particularly anemic while our defence was stellar, necessitating a forward as the return


Three teams are generally thought to have been placing offers for Bishop:
a) Edmonton (Jones + 4th)
b) Philadelphia (X + 4th)
c) Tampa (Conacher/2nd + 4th)

The X from Philly has been speculated to be Rinaldo or some other bottom six player. Read and Couturier were both requested by Bryan Murray but evidently Holmgren turned him down.


Of those three offers what would you choose?

Keep in mind that you have:
1. A ticking time bomb in Bishop (would have left in the off-season)
2. Lehner waiting impatiently in the minors
3. The trade deadline looming



My initial reaction (and I think the reaction of most Sens fans) was as follows:


Many neutral fans were proclaiming Ottawa the winner, but most Sens fans knew Bish was awesome for us. Glad to see him doing well in TB.
This is very important in determining how the trade went down. The fact that he was going g to be a FA really handcuffed the Sens I think in what he could ultimately bring back.

Either way, I love Conacher, and I love Bishop. Good trade still.

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11-08-2013, 06:02 PM
  #79
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Did Ottawa lose the trade? ... Umm;
- Bishop is a 27yo goalie with a career high of 22 games in an NHL season.
- Conacher will turn 24yo soon and hasn't even combined for a full seasons worth of games in his career.

Bishop has played 21 games and Conacher 36 games for their new teams.

If you have already gathered enough information to determine a winner and loser in this deal... you're a ****ing genius!

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Old
11-08-2013, 07:55 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
It was a good trade both ways.

Hell Conacher already has scored a huge playoff goal for the team.
I didn't like the trade when it happened, but Sens were kind of forced into a trade and all the other GMs knew it and the fact he was only picked up the yr before. B Murray said before that he likes big wingers, so I don't think he was crazy excited about Cory. But difficult to turn down a trade for the AHL MVP and named the AHL's Rookie of the Year, and was in the running for NHL Rookie of the year. For the teams 3rd goalie picked up only a year before. I also think the raise of Pageau causes an issue in Ottawa soley due to size...I know different players and positions and I think Pageau is as good, he is an area boy and a draft pick. Sens are not the Canadiens.... He'll be used in a trade, wish they could have traded him instead on Silfver or even the pick

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11-08-2013, 09:56 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
Could have gotten something better other than Conacher. I think Read for the flyers was the other piece. Sens could have benefit from read than conacher, IMO.
The problem is that Bishop would never be proven behind Lehner and Anderson.

As far as unproven goalies go, not a bad deal.

Too bad he is in the division.

No grudges here.

I would think St. Louis may regret letting him go more than Ottawa.

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11-08-2013, 10:00 PM
  #82
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Didn't like the deal at the time and still don't.

Don't get me wrong, I like Conacher as a hard working 3rd liner, but moving Bishop for him was stupid.

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11-08-2013, 10:02 PM
  #83
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It's pretty bad. It's not Luke Schenn for JVR bad, but it's pretty bad.
What? Conacher for Bishop is much more lobsided.

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11-08-2013, 10:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
Looking at some of the recent trades of say the last 5 years, where does this rank among the worst? It's possible Conacher may not be in the NHL in under 4 years. Meanwhile Bishop has a shot at team USA for Sochi.

How did the Sens scouting screw this one up?
It's not nearly as bad as you're suggesting.

Conacher will be an NHLer in four years. He's gritty enough and good enough defensively that, worst case scenario, he's a chippy, two-way third liner.

Bishop was an asset we could afford to let go. We have Lehner, a younger and arguably better prospect, and Andy, a competent #1 in his own right. Combine that with the poor goalie trade market, the fact that Edmonton had the next best offer at Ryan Jones and a pick, and you really don't have a ton of value coming back no matter what you do. Hell, it's still early in the season, Bishop may come down to earth, and he isn't even the runaway early Vezina candidate (Price, Varlamov, Harding, Rask, Lehtonen, Bernier are all putting up comparable numbers with over 10GP each).

Besides, if you want to say Conacher for Bishop was bad, then how bad was Bishop to Ottawa for a 2nd?

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11-08-2013, 10:27 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
Could have gotten something better other than Conacher. I think Read for the flyers was the other piece. Sens could have benefit from read than conacher, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenyX View Post
What? Conacher for Bishop is much more lobsided.

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11-08-2013, 10:38 PM
  #86
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For every goalie with potential that hits there's a Salak, Toivonen or Leighton. And that's just in Chicago recent memory. Depth players without room at the NHL level that return pieces that are contributing at the NHL level aren't bad trades. I'm sure Philly fans would have loved a capable fourth line PK specialist in return for Sharp instead of the flameout that was Ellison.

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11-08-2013, 10:39 PM
  #87
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All of HFB was enraged about how Stevie Y made another colossally stupid ****-up of a trade, getting rid of Conacher for Bishop.



Its not egregiously bad, but man was it ridiculous to see all of Tampa up in arms over this deal.

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11-08-2013, 10:44 PM
  #88
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IIRC most of HF thought it was a bad trade for tampa at the time except sens fans, who were telling tampa fans that bishop was the real deal and it was a fair trade.

From the sens perspective, it's hard to consider it a loss. We knew what bishop was, and just traded him for the best offer because we had two better alternatives (something most people would still agree with i think). The teams that look bad in this transaction are the oilers and flyers, who refused to ante up more than conacher to acquire bishop.

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Old
11-08-2013, 10:47 PM
  #89
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Hey now, give Conacher some credit here. The kid is a workhorse with a compete level through the roof. He has so much energy and was quickly a fan favorite here in Tampa. He will be a solid 3rd line guy moving forward and may crack the top 6 one day.

The one thing that Conacher had a problem with here in Tampa was getting abused to the point that I thought he would need hospitalization. The kid would go full speed head first into the boards and pop right up! Ottawa fans; is this still the norm with him?

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11-08-2013, 10:55 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hfgreg View Post
Hey now, give Conacher some credit here. The kid is a workhorse with a compete level through the roof. He has so much energy and was quickly a fan favorite here in Tampa. He will be a solid 3rd line guy moving forward and may crack the top 6 one day.

The one thing that Conacher had a problem with here in Tampa was getting abused to the point that I thought he would need hospitalization. The kid would go full speed head first into the boards and pop right up! Ottawa fans; is this still the norm with him?
Lol, pretty much.

He played huge role in playoff series against Montreal last year. He basically got under everyone's skin and scored a couple big goals.

Love the energy he brings. The best part about him is that you'd find a bunch of tough guys on the ice for Ottawa and instead it's always Conacher starting the scrums

Though he has only 3 points he is also indirectly responsible for 3-4 more with great job distracting the goalies and more points by retreating pucks from the corners in between a couple defenders.

He draws a couple penalties almost EVERY game.

Points will come. Hustle and heart is amazing.

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11-08-2013, 10:56 PM
  #91
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Love Conacher, always works his ass off. Loved Bishop too but he had to be moved. Good deal for Ottawa and a great deal for Tampa. Both teams should be happy.

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11-08-2013, 11:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by PhoenyX View Post
What? Conacher for Bishop is much more lobsided.
Have you watched Luke Schenn play lately?

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11-08-2013, 11:06 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
That trade was so bad that Tampa-bay should have been arrested for stealing. Bishop is going to be a stud for the lightning in the future.
And to think people were calling Yzerman an idiot for that trade. Conacher for Bishop? I'd do that trade in my sleep, blindfolded and submerged upside down in a James Bond shark tank a thousand times. They needed a goalie BADLY and got one for pocket change. Bishop was not NHL-proven, of course, but an NHL GM who wants to win must roll the dice every now and then and hope for the best. Clearly, Yzerman took an educated guess and it's working out beautifully... the sign of a man who knows what he's doing.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
IIRC most of HF thought it was a bad trade for tampa at the time except sens fans, who were telling tampa fans that bishop was the real deal and it was a fair trade.

From the sens perspective, it's hard to consider it a loss. We knew what bishop was, and just traded him for the best offer because we had two better alternatives (something most people would still agree with i think). The teams that look bad in this transaction are the oilers and flyers, who refused to ante up more than conacher to acquire bishop.
Exceptionally well said on all counts.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:16 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
Looking at some of the recent trades of say the last 5 years, where does this rank among the worst? It's possible Conacher may not be in the NHL in under 4 years. Meanwhile Bishop has a shot at team USA for Sochi.

How did the Sens scouting screw this one up?
LOL.
You do realize he was a third goalie and he was bound to leave in the offseason and they had to make a trade.
Who massively failed here are scouts of several other teams that were in need of a goalie and didn't offer anything better than Conacher + pick.
Every sens fan knew that Bishop is a pretty much guaranteed elite starter in the making.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:24 PM
  #96
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I think both teams got something out of the trade. Bishop is working out great in Tampa but he was third string to Anderson and Lehner and was nearing FA status. It made sense for the Sens to trade him and the return was decent. You're not going to get some bonafide elite player in return for a goalie with limited NHL experience and nearing FA. This deal is only horrible for the other teams that desperately needed a goalie and couldn't recognize the potential in Bishop.

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11-08-2013, 11:26 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I think both teams got something out of the trade. Bishop is working out great in Tampa but he was third string to Anderson and Lehner and was nearing FA status. It made sense for the Sens to trade him and the return was decent. You're not going to get some bonafide elite player in return for a goalie with limited NHL experience and nearing FA. This deal is only horrible for the other teams that desperately needed a goalie and couldn't recognize the potential in Bishop.
This deal isn't really bad because of the return. It's bad because it clearly made Tampa a much better team, making it harder for Ottawa to make the playoffs.

I don't think Tampa is a top 3 division team but they certainly look like a wild card team at the very least.

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11-08-2013, 11:26 PM
  #98
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Ben Bishop has a shot at making the Olympic team?! Is the OP insane??

There's absolutely no way he's even a thought in the back of anyone's mind.

Miller
Quick
Anderson
Howard
Schneider

Where in the world is there any room for him? I'd take old man Thomas long before Bishop

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:32 PM
  #99
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Ben Bishop has a shot at making the Olympic team?! Is the OP insane??

There's absolutely no way he's even a thought in the back of anyone's mind.
While I agree he wont make it don't fool yourself.. hes in the convo.

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11-08-2013, 11:39 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
Looking at some of the recent trades of say the last 5 years, where does this rank among the worst? It's possible Conacher may not be in the NHL in under 4 years. Meanwhile Bishop has a shot at team USA for Sochi.

How did the Sens scouting screw this one up?
I am late for the party but here are my thoughts.

honestly, I told you guys Anderson was a journeyman his whole career . He has become solid but his Vezina impersonation was not going to last. You should have sold Anderson when teams were willing to cough up bars of gold and held onto Bishop.


But fear not. You guys got Anderson for basically nothing so you did good.

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