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Buy Out McCabe? Sign Niedermayer?

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Old
07-23-2005, 07:44 PM
  #26
King of Kelvington
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[QUOTE=berney fkaj]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles.TML
Why not keep Renberg and have the Legion of Doom line in Toronto.[/QUOTE

berney...hows brenda

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07-23-2005, 07:57 PM
  #27
berney fkaj
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berney...hows brenda
good good why is your sister in the picture with you

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07-23-2005, 09:57 PM
  #28
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Not a good idea IMHO. As somebody else mentioned, what happens if the Leafs buy McCabe out, and then fail to sign Neids or Foote? There'd be a gaping hole in the defence. Be kind of like buying out Belfour but failing to bring home his replacement (Kabibulin) and leaving us with Telly and another less than stellar goalie. Leaf fans would freak!

This is what is going to make the next couple of weeks so interesting: clubs doing their buyouts and then scrambling to sign replacement UFAs. Glad the NHL is back in business!

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07-23-2005, 09:57 PM
  #29
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I don't get why people are talking about Mcabe- he is retired- remember, "if they insist on a cap we won't play hockey for the rest of our lives"


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07-23-2005, 09:59 PM
  #30
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I don't get why people are talking about Mcabe- he is retired- remember, "if they insist on a cap we won't play hockey for the rest of our lives"


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Old
07-23-2005, 10:53 PM
  #31
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Try and sign Niedermayer... if you get him, deal McCabe.

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07-24-2005, 09:31 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_and_White
Try and sign Niedermayer... if you get him, deal McCabe.
If your trade McCabe it better be for a top notch Goalie or a top 5 pick in this draft other wise better off to keep as he is at the prime of his carreer right now.

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07-24-2005, 09:33 AM
  #33
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mccabe's great
altho costly
and buying out your top defenseman is dangerous without knowing if you could win a niedermayer,foote,gonchar,rafalski bidding war

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Old
07-24-2005, 09:42 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_and_White
Try and sign Niedermayer... if you get him, deal McCabe.

...or keep McCabe and deal someone less valuable to the team.

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07-24-2005, 09:47 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by richardn
If your trade McCabe it better be for a top notch Goalie or a top 5 pick in this draft other wise better off to keep as he is at the prime of his carreer right now.
Prime is age only if you show up overweight and out of shape. His trip to Europe was a disaster. He had better come ready or JF should see him off at the end of the year.

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07-24-2005, 09:59 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
Prime is age only if you show up overweight and out of shape. His trip to Europe was a disaster. He had better come ready or JF should see him off at the end of the year.

McCabe has always been in shape here. He plays a lot of minutes and plays every game and you can do neither if you are overweight.

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07-24-2005, 11:06 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Recidivist
McCabe has always been in shape here. He plays a lot of minutes and plays every game and you can do neither if you are overweight.
He was carrying extra pounds in 03-04 and was a mess last year. He does not look to be in shape now seeing him in TO. What do you attribute his awful performance to?

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07-24-2005, 11:16 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
He was carrying extra pounds in 03-04 and was a mess last year. He does not look to be in shape now seeing him in TO. What do you attribute his awful performance to?

He carried extra pounds in 03/04 yet was a second team all-star (best finish for Leaf d-man since great Salming), scored 53 points, was ninth in the league in minutes played (and played tons in the playoffs), first on Leafs in +/-. We need to overfeed our other players if that equates to out of shape!

I didn't see him in Europe and take the reports at their word as to how awful he was last year. I also don't give a hoot how he played or looked last year as it wasn't for the Leafs and when he was here he was brilliant (though a disastrous last playoff game).

Do you really believe he had a poor year in 03/04? You've been watching too many Luca Cereda highlight films (are there any?) and need to watch more Leaf games before casting such ridiculous opinions into this thread.

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Old
07-24-2005, 11:34 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
He was carrying extra pounds in 03-04 and was a mess last year. He does not look to be in shape now seeing him in TO. What do you attribute his awful performance to?
It could be the different rules from the old NHL, to the no-redline and other rules they had in Europe which confused the man. Not a good indicator for how he might handle the no obstruction NNHL. He was lost for a quite some time when they took away his can-opener obstruction move, prior to perfecting his double butt obstruction check.

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07-24-2005, 12:08 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
He was lost for a quite some time when they took away his can-opener obstruction move, prior to perfecting his double butt obstruction check.
I'll reply to this the same way I replied to the last person who made a similar comment about taking away McCabe's "can-opener" affecting his performance.....

1. He still does it sometimes.

2. Even when it was "allowed" (although technically it never was) he only did it once every two or three games. It's not like he used it on every single play.

3. It's not like it provides any great advantage. It's just a stupid stick move to catch guys off balance and knock them down.

4. If Harry Neale didn't start calling it the can-opener and pointing it out every time, no one would even know what it was or notice that he was doing it.

5. Losing his spot on the PP to Svehla and being paired with Lumme all year did far more to hinder McCabe's performance then the stupid can-opener ever did.

And lastly, the double-cheek check is a body check (once again coined by Harry Neale). Nothing even remotely to do with obstruction.

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Old
07-24-2005, 12:18 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
And lastly, the double-cheek check is a body check (once again coined by Harry Neale). Nothing even remotely to do with obstruction.
It is a check, that takes him completely out of the play, and his hit rate was less than adequate.

However, to be fair, the Leafs didn't obstruct enough in the neutral zone, and so he was put under too much pressure for his manoeuvrability in his own zone. Someone like Rafalski and Niedermayer should be able to handle the new speed these attackers will be coming in with.

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07-24-2005, 12:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
4. If Harry Neale didn't start calling it the can-opener and pointing it out every time, no one would even know what it was or notice that he was doing it.
Speak for yourself. Harry Neale did not coin the term "can opener", for starters.

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07-24-2005, 01:28 PM
  #43
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It seems leaf fans are quite split down the middle on McCabe status as a Leaf.

Either they feel he is worthy of being a #1 on the Leafs and due the respect an NHL 2nd All-Star would get and can perform to that level

or

Feel he is too inconsistent to warrant that status and with the new NHL flooded with top end Dmen would prefer to take a chance on someone else at the expense of McCabe..

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Old
07-24-2005, 01:39 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
He carried extra pounds in 03/04 yet was a second team all-star (best finish for Leaf d-man since great Salming), scored 53 points, was ninth in the league in minutes played (and played tons in the playoffs), first on Leafs in +/-. We need to overfeed our other players if that equates to out of shape!

I didn't see him in Europe and take the reports at their word as to how awful he was last year. I also don't give a hoot how he played or looked last year as it wasn't for the Leafs and when he was here he was brilliant (though a disastrous last playoff game).

Do you really believe he had a poor year in 03/04? You've been watching too many Luca Cereda highlight films (are there any?) and need to watch more Leaf games before casting such ridiculous opinions into this thread.
It is certainly possible some post season gaffs soured me on Brian as well as his generally poor attitude when it comes to the state of the NHL. By all accounts he was not prepared to give it his all in Sweden which you correctly say does not mean much. My brother told me i was wrong about his fitness in 03-04 he's going by Roberts word that he indeed has been in shape since working out in Gary's gym.His play was so ragged in the playoffs it looked like a fitness issue but perhaps it was overuse. His numbers of 16 goals and 53 points and a plus 22 are very good. I've been wrong before but i know that i'm not a big McCabe fan.

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Old
07-24-2005, 01:43 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
It seems leaf fans are quite split down the middle on McCabe status as a Leaf.

Either they feel he is worthy of being a #1 on the Leafs and due the respect an NHL 2nd All-Star would get and can perform to that level

or

Feel he is too inconsistent to warrant that status and with the new NHL flooded with top end Dmen would prefer to take a chance on someone else at the expense of McCabe..
Buying him out could be risky. Sure you could upgrade slightly or considerably at that spot, but at what cost? Pay more to get a guy like Foote or Niedermayer..fine...but at the end of the day, youre still stuck depth wise with a Berg/Pilar/Colaiacovo as your number 4, and maybe even less $$ to spend on improving the #4-5 spot.

I'd keep McCabe and try to lure a solid FA dman for the 2nd pairing...although admittedly its an opportunity for Ferguson to get creative.

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Old
07-24-2005, 01:47 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by think/blue
Buying him out could be risky. Sure you could upgrade slightly or considerably at that spot, but at what cost? Pay more to get a guy like Foote or Niedermayer..fine...but at the end of the day, youre still stuck depth wise with a Berg/Pilar/Colaiacovo as your number 4, and maybe even less $$ to spend on improving the #4-5 spot.

I'd keep McCabe and try to lure a solid FA dman for the 2nd pairing...although admittedly its an opportunity for Ferguson to get creative.
You are correct it is risky and i'm not saying its the right move but Brian eats a fair amount of cap. I guess i hipe JF looks for some nice discount options. Perhaps we need to buy Klee out and go with a guy who makes half that but can still play.

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Old
07-24-2005, 01:55 PM
  #47
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As much as the guy pisses me off sometimes, you gotta keep him.

His deal was only for 2 years, right? This is his last year of the contract. I say restructure!

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Old
07-24-2005, 02:17 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by think/blue
Buying him out could be risky. Sure you could upgrade slightly or considerably at that spot, but at what cost? Pay more to get a guy like Foote or Niedermayer..fine...but at the end of the day, youre still stuck depth wise with a Berg/Pilar/Colaiacovo as your number 4, and maybe even less $$ to spend on improving the #4-5 spot.

I'd keep McCabe and try to lure a solid FA dman for the 2nd pairing...although admittedly its an opportunity for Ferguson to get creative.
I think McCabe has trade value to some degree even if it small because on the market .. So I wouldn't buy him out .. Perhaps part of Fergy's creative plan is a trade .. Apparently you can make trades during this week before the Aug 1st UFA season ..

I wonder if an opposing GM would accept a McCabe trade subject to what happens in the first week of UFA .. That way you have a bird in the land before you send McCabe to bush league team ..

I agree though with Leaf Army that a Niedermayer type costs too much at one position .. I think if you move McCabe you need to replace that spot salary wise with a $ 3.5 - 4 mil dman .. Zubov ?? Foote ?? Gonchar ??

Team Canada training Camp is coming to Kelowna next month, so I hope to catch up with McCabe and ask him his thoughts on this during the open practices. ..

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Old
07-24-2005, 02:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ulf_55
It is a check, that takes him completely out of the play, and his hit rate was less than adequate.
I don't recall anyone complaining when he plastered Recchi in the playoffs last year.

If you want to get picky, all big open ice hitters run the risk of taking themselves out of position. But they also can change the momentum of the game with one of their hits. It's a trade off.

Typically a defenceman's ability to throw huge hits should add to his value. But when it comes to McCabe people hold it against him for some strange reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Speak for yourself. Harry Neale did not coin the term "can opener", for starters.
The term can-opener has been around a long time. But Harry is the guy who would point out every time McCabe would do it and started specifically linking the term to McCabe.

Lots of players do that move. As MooseOAK pointed out the other day, it was Brad Stuart who badly injured Mogilny with it two years ago.

But the can-opener has very little relevance to "obstruction" and has even less relevance to McCabe's success or lack of.

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07-25-2005, 05:07 PM
  #50
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Just saw Nieds on OTR. Cut that hair, hippy boy

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