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Blash 4 Coach?

View Poll Results: New coach?
Stick with Babs 29 34.12%
Replace Babs with Blash ASAP 10 11.76%
If the team hasn't improved by the Olympic break replace Babs with Blash 4 4.71%
If the Wings don't make the playoffs replace Babs with Blash 39 45.88%
If the Wings don't make the playoffs replace Babs with a coach with NHL experience 3 3.53%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-03-2014, 07:51 AM
  #1
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Blash 4 Coach?

He is familiar with everyone. I think the team would instantly be better.
He makes wise decisions like playing Smith on the PP and not on the PK.

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01-03-2014, 07:59 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
He is familiar with everyone. I think the team would instantly be better.
He makes wise decisions like playing Smith on the PP and not on the PK.
I think this thread would be more appropriate in the offseason when there might be a more realistic time that Babcock is let go depending on the outcome of the season.

I've been an avid Babcock supporter for a long time and still am, but I wouldn't be opposed to a change. The problem is with your statement about the team being 'instantly better' - we don't know that. Blashill has coached these kids in the AHL, not the NHL. If these kids were in the AHL they would dominate, they don't dominate in the NHL - it's completely different.

Blashill has all the makings of a good NHL coach so I'd welcome him, but this team doesn't have the makings of a good team until Holland makes some appropriate adjustments. I don't think there's a chance that Blashill would come in right now and bench Cleary - he would still play. Maybe not on the PP, but he would be in.

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01-03-2014, 08:06 AM
  #3
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I agree with Heaton, if the wings miss the post season then do it. I mean I would like to see babs and more so Holland make some changes to try and better the team but something like this should probably wait for the off season.

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01-03-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think this thread would be more appropriate in the offseason when there might be a more realistic time that Babcock is let go depending on the outcome of the season.

I've been an avid Babcock supporter for a long time and still am, but I wouldn't be opposed to a change. The problem is with your statement about the team being 'instantly better' - we don't know that. Blashill has coached these kids in the AHL, not the NHL. If these kids were in the AHL they would dominate, they don't dominate in the NHL - it's completely different.

Blashill has all the makings of a good NHL coach so I'd welcome him, but this team doesn't have the makings of a good team until Holland makes some appropriate adjustments. I don't think there's a chance that Blashill would come in right now and bench Cleary - he would still play. Maybe not on the PP, but he would be in.
I think we should bring posters to the games and start chanting.
This team has the makings of a contender but not when

16:28 TOI w/4:24 PP TOI for Bert
17:53 TOI w/3:14 PP TOI for Cleary
17:43 TOI for Abdelkader
24:33 TOI for Quincey
Ice-time for the most recent game. WC

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01-03-2014, 08:20 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datsykiandeke View Post
I agree with Heaton, if the wings miss the post season then do it. I mean I would like to see babs and more so Holland make some changes to try and better the team but something like this should probably wait for the off season.
Somebody commented the other day that if we re-signed Fil he wouldn't be scoring half as much here as he is in T.B.
Do you think that's true?
If so is that Fil's fault?
How many more players aren't playing nearly as well under Babs as they would be somewhere else???

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01-03-2014, 08:26 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I don't think there's a chance that Blashill would come in right now and bench Cleary - he would still play. Maybe not on the PP, but he would be in.
I agree with 90% of your post. But just out of curiosity, why do you think this?

Cleary is so objectively bad the majority of the time, I have to figure objective eyes would bench him. Babcock is obviously incapable of being objective when it comes to Cleary, for whatever reason, but I do think Blash would be.

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01-03-2014, 08:31 AM
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smith has played less on pk than 5 other wings dman this season. he hasn't been even 50 minutes there. smith isn't that good on pp. i agree with what you have said earlier that it might help with his confidence but it seems to be fine lately.

i don't see the case that the team would be a lot better if smith played on pp more and less on pk where he doesn't even play much. and kronwall and kindl have produced quite well on, though the latter hasn't been that great there lately imo.

babs does mahe some head scratching decisions but so does every coach.

the roster is about as good as the standings tell; borderline playoff team. i don't think wings have been completely healthy for one game this season. it shows up on this team. if he wouldn't get better results with completely healthy roster, yes' i'd be open to look at other options like blash because that team should be playoff team with babs imo. or maybe should've is more accurate as over half of the season is done.

there are issues with red wings but babs isn't on top of that list.

and agree with above posters that this should be looked at more closely in 14 offseason. as of now, i'd incline on keeping babs but it's not clear cut. he's still a good coach, as he has always been. he just doesn't have lidström anymore.

strong case would be if players had started to tune him out; i don't think that's the case. no one might get franzen going. zett and dats are performing but are old. quincey is pretty much the same as in colorado but without reliable partner so this is pretty much expected. kronwall and ericsson are fine, as are most of the vets. howard is under-performing but that's not on babs.

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01-03-2014, 08:35 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Somebody commented the other day that if we re-signed Fil he wouldn't be scoring half as much here as he is in T.B.
Do you think that's true?
If so is that Fil's fault?
How many more players aren't playing nearly as well under Babs as they would be somewhere else???
I think that is true bc of how he was used and who was paired with. Also I think his mind or heart wasn't in it under babs to some extent. I think he needed a change of scenery. I don't think it's fil's fault. I think he was just stuck so to speak. I know it might sound crazy but sometimes that change of scenery and new players can give someone the urge to impress and step it up. Look at Hudler. He has been playing pretty dang good in Calgary. I honestly think it would have been fil, hudler, franzen that just don't seem to play well under babs. I think fil and huds were used somewhat incorrectly, franzen just seems to not care alot of the time but thats just my opinion.

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01-03-2014, 08:40 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
smith has played less on pk than 5 other wings dman this season. he hasn't been even 50 minutes there. smith isn't that good on pp. i agree with what you have said earlier that it might help with his confidence but it seems to be fine lately.

i don't see the case that the team would be a lot better if smith played on pp more and less on pk where he doesn't even play much. and kronwall and kindl have produced quite well on, though the latter hasn't been that great there lately imo.

babs does mahe some head scratching decisions but so does every coach.

the roster is about as good as the standings tell; borderline playoff team. i don't think wings have been completely healthy for one game this season. it shows up on this team. if he wouldn't get better results with completely healthy roster, yes' i'd be open to look at other options like blash because that team should be playoff team with babs imo. or maybe should've is more accurate as over half of the season is done.

there are issues with red wings but babs isn't on top of that list.

and agree with above posters that this should be looked at more closely in 14 offseason. as of now, i'd incline on keeping babs but it's not clear cut. he's still a good coach, as he has always been. he just doesn't have lidström anymore.

strong case would be if players had started to tune him out; i don't think that's the case. no one might get franzen going. zett and dats are performing but are old. quincey is pretty much the same as in colorado but without reliable partner so this is pretty much expected. kronwall and ericsson are fine, as are most of the vets. howard is under-performing but that's not on babs.
How can you say Smith isn't very good on the PP when he really hasn't had much opportunity there. I have no doubt that Smith would be better on the PP than Eaves and Sammy and given the opportunity is probably the 2nd best option the Wings have got there.
He has been good on the PP everywhere else he has played. He has scored more points by a d-men in the NCAA, than anybody sincve the goalie equipment was allowed to get so big in the mid 90s.
This team has talent to be a contender problem is that useless players like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Quincey and mediocre ones are getting more time than the actual talent.
The treatment of Jurco and Mraz for the Winter Classic games so just how much of a stupid goof he is.

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01-03-2014, 08:42 AM
  #10
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Regardless of the outcome from this season, Babcock will see out his contract with the Wings and Blashill will take over.

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01-03-2014, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datsykiandeke View Post
I think that is true bc of how he was used and who was paired with. Also I think his mind or heart wasn't in it under babs to some extent. I think he needed a change of scenery. I don't think it's fil's fault. I think he was just stuck so to speak. I know it might sound crazy but sometimes that change of scenery and new players can give someone the urge to impress and step it up. Look at Hudler. He has been playing pretty dang good in Calgary. I honestly think it would have been fil, hudler, franzen that just don't seem to play well under babs. I think fil and huds were used somewhat incorrectly, franzen just seems to not care alot of the time but thats just my opinion.
I'm certain Tatar, Nyquist and Smith would be much more productive anywhere else.

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01-03-2014, 09:18 AM
  #12
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I think the real question is do you truly believe Blashill is an upgrade over Babcock at this point?

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01-03-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
I think we should bring posters to the games and start chanting.
This team has the makings of a contender but not when

16:28 TOI w/4:24 PP TOI for Bert
17:53 TOI w/3:14 PP TOI for Cleary
17:43 TOI for Abdelkader
24:33 TOI for Quincey
Ice-time for the most recent game. WC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I agree with 90% of your post. But just out of curiosity, why do you think this?

Cleary is so objectively bad the majority of the time, I have to figure objective eyes would bench him. Babcock is obviously incapable of being objective when it comes to Cleary, for whatever reason, but I do think Blash would be.
I'm not sure why you guys think a guy like Blashill, who has never coached NHL veterans, would come in and start benching guys or severely reducing their IT. Until it happens, we have no idea if Blashill would be any different. The idea of veterans playing has always been a mantra for Detroit, usually they're good.

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01-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
I'm certain Tatar, Nyquist and Smith would be much more productive anywhere else.
I sort of have the same feeling.

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01-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I'm not sure why you guys think a guy like Blashill, who has never coached NHL veterans, would come in and start benching guys or severely reducing their IT. Until it happens, we have no idea if Blashill would be any different. The idea of veterans playing has always been a mantra for Detroit, usually they're good.
especially with the group we had to ice in the first place. The only guy I could see an argument for more ice was Tatar. After that, should we have put Glendening out more? Andersson? Miller? Big flipping deal if they are out there or if Cleary is out there. Or Miller. It's not going to matter. It was a game where we had a mediocre forward group to start with, then we lost Eaves in the first period, shoving even more minutes on a mediocre group.

And on the backend, Lashoff is mediocre and Kindl is slumping hard. Of course Q got minutes. So did Smith,Kronwall, and DD. It's not because Q is given preferential treatment, it's because the other options suck, too.

We need some injured guys back to see ice times reduced for some other guys.

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01-03-2014, 09:34 AM
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especially with the group we had to ice in the first place. The only guy I could see an argument for more ice was Tatar. After that, should we have put Glendening out more? Andersson? Miller? Big flipping deal if they are out there or if Cleary is out there. Or Miller. It's not going to matter. It was a game where we had a mediocre forward group to start with, then we lost Eaves in the first period, shoving even more minutes on a mediocre group.

And on the backend, Lashoff is mediocre and Kindl is slumping hard. Of course Q got minutes. So did Smith,Kronwall, and DD. It's not because Q is given preferential treatment, it's because the other options suck, too.

We need some injured guys back to see ice times reduced for some other guys.
Joker and Miller actually do positive things on the ice...

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01-03-2014, 09:38 AM
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Joker and Miller actually do positive things on the ice...
and among the biggest negatives of the forwards. Moving them around with any of the other mediocre forwards is just swapping chairs around the room.

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01-03-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
How can you say Smith isn't very good on the PP when he really hasn't had much opportunity there.
because of watching him do that in AHL.

not many dman are good at pp without excellent vision and/or shot.


Quote:
I have no doubt that Smith would be better on the PP than Eaves and Sammy and given the opportunity is probably the 2nd best option the Wings have got there.
LH shot vs. RH shot. i have no doubt smith would be there if he was RH.

not that sammy or eaves do good job there.

Quote:
He has been good on the PP everywhere else he has played.
do you have source or stats to back that up?

Quote:
He has scored more points by a d-men in the NCAA, than anybody sincve the goalie equipment was allowed to get so big in the mid 90s.
was that because of pp production or because he played like 4th F?

that statement is not true, anyway.

Quote:
This team has talent to be a contender problem is that useless players like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Quincey and mediocre ones are getting more time than the actual talent. The treatment of Jurco and Mraz for the Winter Classic games so just how much of a stupid goof he is.
some of that is arguable at best imo.

mrazek was with wings because either howie or monster were injured. and thus he was the best option for backup. howie's track record automatically makes him the starter.

babcock doesn't have better players to play the role od cleary and bert but yes, i don't like how he uses them but that's his style and the guy who gives him the players to use should know this.

i'd have liked to keep jurco but rookies always have to prove themselves and his play had dropped.

defense sucks. that's why quincey plays. there isn't much better options. kindl has sucked lately anywhere except in off. zone. and even there he's been medicore. lashoff has been solid but he's also been sheltered quite a lot.

i though quincey was fine that game, he didn't play a lot on special teams and got lot of ES ice time as kronner and ericsson along with dekeyser where used quite heavily on special teams.

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01-03-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
and among the biggest negatives of the forwards. Moving them around with any of the other mediocre forwards is just swapping chairs around the room.
Cleary is right down there with them, sir. Except those guys all have more points despite not getting the opportunities Cleary does.

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01-03-2014, 09:58 AM
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tatar and nyquist could produce better somewhere else yes. but definitely not on all teams.

tatar is 6th on pp ice time. only bert is worse than him and his net front player anyway.

he doesn't seem to do well with dats and zett. wants and must have the puck.

his play has also dropped lately which is expected with rookies but is also reflected on his ice time, maybe (didn't check that but it seems so). he has what 2 points in his last 14 gamers or what? is that on babcock as he was used pretty much the same before his slump? little less ice time is possible/likely as i said but production shouldn't drop that much.

and babcock's job is to get wings for the team, not get best production out of tatar. if tatar is in top 6 and so on, it means scoring depth sucks, and bottom lines get killed. wings did well when team was more healthy and some plugs played in top 6 and tatar provided scoring and possession for bottom 6.

similar thing with nyquist. except before his injury he was playing in top 6.

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01-03-2014, 09:59 AM
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Is the team flat out better with Blash coaching? No.

Will the team develop young players better with Blash coaching? Yes.

But if we think switching to Blash will cut down on the puzzling lineup decisions, we're fools. Almost every coach in the NHL does exactly what Babcock does with Cleary and Quincey. Almost every fanbase complains about this very thing. It's unlikely that Blash will be any different in that respect.

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01-03-2014, 10:05 AM
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I don't think Blash is a great coach for a team loaded with veterans. But as they keep bringing in more prospects and some of the veterans leaving, he could (will) be a good successor for Babs. Not yet though.

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01-03-2014, 10:06 AM
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one knock against babcock has been with holding leads; they play not to lose instead of playing to win. too safe, too conservative.

wings possession numbers relative to other teams when leading are actually slightly better compared to normal 5on5 play. so it's not true.

why do wings suck at holding leads then?

ES sv% of 89.88 when leading. 4th worst in the league.

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01-03-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
one knock against babcock has been with holding leads; they play not to lose instead of playing to win. too safe, too conservative.

wings possession numbers relative to other teams when leading are actually slightly better compared to normal 5on5 play. so it's not true.

why do wings suck at holding leads then?

ES sv% of 89.88 when leading. 4th worst in the league.
Do you think Babcock is telling them to sit back and play passive with leads? Because I don't, I think he is telling them to attack and be active. I think players sit back and protect as a natural response. But, with that said, it ultimately falls on Babcock if they do that.

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01-03-2014, 10:38 AM
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Do you think Babcock is telling them to sit back and play passive with leads? Because I don't, I think he is telling them to attack and be active. I think players sit back and protect as a natural response. But, with that said, it ultimately falls on Babcock if they do that.
as i said in the post you quoted, no i don't think so and stats indicate that they don't do that. they are slightly more active when leading 5vs5 compared to all 5vs5 play relative to other teams. they don't play passive, wings just have extremely bad sv% when they are leading.

which would indicate that they do the exact opposite of passive when they are leading. i don't remember anyone complain about that and i haven't seen it either.

poor luck, goaltending and/or personnel problem. not coaching.

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