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OT: Atlanta Braves moving to new Stadium in 2017

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Old
11-12-2013, 10:26 PM
  #101
Brodie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Eh, let's not include end of ball mall area stadiums with ones built with any type of quality after say 1994.

Plenty would mean multiple examples. Got more, just out of curiosity?
The Charlotte Coliseum, but that belongs to the same era. Tampa Stadium was only used by the Bucs for 21 years, though it pre-dated them but was significantly renovated for their arrival. The Kingdome was only in use for 23 years. The RCA Dome lasted 24 years. The Pontiac Silverdome was only about 20 years old when the Lions moved to replace it. FedEx Field probably won't get close to 30 years, but that's the future.

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Old
11-12-2013, 11:27 PM
  #102
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The Charlotte Coliseum, but that belongs to the same era. Tampa Stadium was only used by the Bucs for 21 years, though it pre-dated them but was significantly renovated for their arrival. The Kingdome was only in use for 23 years. The RCA Dome lasted 24 years. The Pontiac Silverdome was only about 20 years old when the Lions moved to replace it. FedEx Field probably won't get close to 30 years, but that's the future.
Yep, like I thought, all places (other than Tampa) that were built under the horrors that was 70s & 80s construction and before the modern era of suites. It's just not really comparable to what we have today.

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11-12-2013, 11:41 PM
  #103
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Atlanta pretty much had no urban planning, other than to build as many freeways as possible wherever possible.
hey! that's the LA masterplan as well.

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Old
11-13-2013, 12:00 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Yep, like I thought, all places (other than Tampa) that were built under the horrors that was 70s & 80s construction and before the modern era of suites. It's just not really comparable to what we have today.
but the thing is, are suites really a more valid reason to build a new stadium than "the location is inconvenient"? I agree the Georgia Dome is a farce, because that's entirely down to Blank hating domes (which are good enough for three NFL teams as well as those with retractable roofs the majority of the time).

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11-13-2013, 09:45 AM
  #105
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/will-b...comm_ref=false


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11-13-2013, 09:51 AM
  #106
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but the thing is, are suites really a more valid reason to build a new stadium than "the location is inconvenient"? I agree the Georgia Dome is a farce, because that's entirely down to Blank hating domes (which are good enough for three NFL teams as well as those with retractable roofs the majority of the time).
It's not just suites, those places were all dumps! Turner Field is clearly not a dump...

Are you seriously trying to put Turner Field and The Kingdome on the same level of what needs replacement? A lot of these places were crumbling.

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11-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #107
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I've always liked the Braves but I'm a bit surprised they'd move to a new stadium given the fact they only moved to their current stadium in 1997.

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11-13-2013, 10:09 AM
  #108
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I live in Cobb County and was a huge Thrasher fan. Watched incompetent, uncaring ownership and a completely inactive, disinterested city of Atlanta government let them depart. I am also a Braves fan. The Braves are a healthy franchise but identified a need for $200M in improvements at their poorly located downtown stadium. The city of Atlanta after ponying up $215M for the Falcons new digs said no. Fine and well. But why complain if Cobb County, with a ****pot of season ticket holders, likes the Braves well enough to help build them a new Stadium? BTW, no one knows how the $450M for the stadium will be sourced. Some hints (private backing) suggest an arrangement very similar to how the city of Atlanta helped the Falcons.

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11-13-2013, 10:23 AM
  #109
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interesting read, thanks.

is that the general feeling in town?

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11-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #110
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Now it seems that Cobb County is one of the 100th wealthiest counties in America, and the 12th most educated. So $450 million must be chump change -- it's not like they're Philadelphia, slashing public school teachers in the face of massive budget cuts. Oh, wait... actually they are sort of like that: "Cobb County's school board approved a 2013-14 budget Thursday night that will result in five furlough days for all employees, the loss of 182 teachers through attrition and a slimmer central administration staff."
Seems logical.

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Old
11-13-2013, 12:12 PM
  #111
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Public school boards are often pretty poorly run and overall adminsitrative anachronisms
(which is why the trend is now to dissolve them). There might be more to that story.

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Old
11-13-2013, 12:15 PM
  #112
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Of course, whether or not the expenditure of $450M is wise or not is hard to determine. The city of Atlanta felt $215M ($200M + $15M) was worth spending on the Falcons. So is Cobb County spending a little over twice as much on the Braves a bad idea by that yardstick? Earlier this year a Georgia State University economist briefed the Atlanta City Council (this was in regard to supporting the Falcons expenditure) and told them the economic impact of the Braves was more than twice that of the Hawks and Falcons combined.

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11-13-2013, 12:32 PM
  #113
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Typical of a sprawling city that has to deal with municipal infighting for resources. Cobb County residents are spending $450 million to own a resource that was bought and paid for by a different set of taxpayers only 12 miles away. Think about how utterly wasteful that is.

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11-13-2013, 12:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Of course, whether or not the expenditure of $450M is wise or not is hard to determine. The city of Atlanta felt $215M ($200M + $15M) was worth spending on the Falcons. So is Cobb County spending a little over twice as much on the Braves a bad idea by that yardstick? Earlier this year a Georgia State University economist briefed the Atlanta City Council (this was in regard to supporting the Falcons expenditure) and told them the economic impact of the Braves was more than twice that of the Hawks and Falcons combined.
There's a followup question to be had to this: how much of the economic impact goes to the team and how much goes to the community?

Baseball is such an "every night sport" that I have doubts that, in Atlanta (as opposed to, say, the Chicago Cubs), there's a lot of people hitting the neighborhood bars prior to Braves games. The surrounding community may really be an indicator of where the impact goes. That is something that should have grow organically.

Are Hawks fans less afraid of the city than Thrashers fans were? This might have something to do with what happened there.

If I may swing this to Portland... the Trail Blazers have a devil of a time getting business into a building they own across the plaza from the Rose errrrrrrr Moda Center. On the other side of downtown, you see a steady stream of people coming from the trendy NW 21st and NW 23rd areas to JELD-WEN for Timbers games (and places closer to it are priced out of their buildings because landlords think they can get more rent... which might be part of the problem back in the Rose Quarter). The Blazers probably have a threefold economic impact compared to the Timbers, but who's getting it? I think Portland is ABSOLUTELY cognizant of this fact. Perhaps Atlanta is the same.


Last edited by PCSPounder: 11-13-2013 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Did you know it's actually "Chicgo"?
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Old
11-13-2013, 01:36 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
There's a followup question to be had to this: how much of the economic impact goes to the team and how much goes to the community?

Baseball is such an "every night sport" that I have doubts that, in Atlanta (as opposed to, say, the Chicago Cubs), there's a lot of people hitting the neighborhood bars prior to Braves games. The surrounding community may really be an indicator of where the impact goes. That is something that should have grow organically.

Are Hawks fans less afraid of the city than Thrashers fans were? This might have something to do with what happened there.

If I may swing this to Portland... the Trail Blazers have a devil of a time getting business into a building they own across the plaza from the Rose errrrrrrr Moda Center. On the other side of downtown, you see a steady stream of people coming from the trendy NW 21st and NW 23rd areas to JELD-WEN for Timbers games (and places closer to it are priced out of their buildings because landlords think they can get more rent... which might be part of the problem back in the Rose Quarter). The Blazers probably have a threefold economic impact compared to the Timbers, but who's getting it? I think Portland is ABSOLUTELY cognizant of this fact. Perhaps Atlanta is the same.

Too obscure to answer. Undoubtedly some to both. But the ripple effect is also considerable (increased property values, redevelopment, etc).

As to the bars, there are only a few bars around the current stadium and no good ones. That is in fact one of the complaints many have about the Ted - nothing much around it.

And I wasn't and I don't think Thrasher fans were afraid of the environment as much as we were aware of how unpleasant it was; and how unsuitable for children - unfortunately.

BTW, visited Portland not long ago. Very nice.

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11-14-2013, 02:29 AM
  #116
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hey! that's the LA masterplan as well.
The difference is LA has realized its mistakes and is attempting to fix them now with higher-density zoning and a robust mass transit expansion plan. Atlanta is still going full-steam ahead on suburban sprawl and lack of cohesive zoning...and the suburban public is supportive of this because it means it gets harder and harder for certain so-called "undesirables" to reach their neighborhoods. There is a strong undercurrent of segregation and Jim Crow that still permeates Atlanta urban planning.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:16 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
interesting read, thanks.

is that the general feeling in town?

Pretty much except all the folks that live on the NW side of town. They don't realize they're being taken just so a few rich folks can get their hands on some more easy cash.

It's not so much the move that bothers me. It's the fact that it's totally unneeded and wasteful.

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11-14-2013, 08:04 AM
  #118
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More details this mornings paper. Cost $672M. Team pays 55% or $370. Cobb sources $302 (ahem, not $450). Remaining $302 will be sourced without impact on 95% Cobb County resident taxes. More details to follow but thinking is the 5% will be a specific tax (sales tax?) in the Cumberland district where the stadium is located. I think Cobb has done an excellent job here. Minimal impact on residents and we get the Braves.

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11-14-2013, 08:15 AM
  #119
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One other note to consider. While I like the move overall, it's sad that the spot of one of the most memorable events in sports history, Muhammad Ali lighting the Olympic torch, will be bulldozed. I hope the city creates a memorial or Olympic museum (or both) on this site.

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11-15-2013, 08:30 AM
  #120
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Here's a breakdown of who's paying what:

Quote:
Cobb County government will spend $300 million on a new Atlanta Braves stadium and mixed use development near the interstates 75 and 285, according to a summary of the financial agreement released Thursday morning.

All told, the development will cost $672 million, with the Braves covering the rest of the costs.
Quote:
Existing property taxes will account for $8.7 million of the county’s contribution. The release says there will be no increase in property tax millage rates for homeowners.

However, there are new taxes, including: a new 3-percent rental car tax; a new 3-mill property tax increase for businesses in a Cumberland Special Services District; a new $3 per night charge for hotel rooms in the special services district.

The Braves will cover $92 million of the bonded debt by contributing $3 million in rent; $1.5 million in naming rights; $1.5 million in parking revenue; and $100,000 in advertising revenue. The team has agreed to commit at least $230 million up front.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local-g...s-new-s/nbr4m/

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11-15-2013, 09:56 AM
  #121
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http://www.atlantamagazine.com/featu...ld-development

Very interesting read about the area surrounding Turner Field, which gives some insight why the Braves have decided to move.

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11-15-2013, 04:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
and the suburban public is supportive of this because it means it gets harder and harder for certain so-called "undesirables" to reach their neighborhoods. There is a strong undercurrent of segregation and Jim Crow that still permeates Atlanta urban planning.
That's the same logic that Georgetown used here in DC to fight the Metro. They sure as hell wound up regretting that one, and now they're begging for it. With a new Potomac tunnel and blue line rerouting in the works, looks like they'll finally get one around 2030.

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Most people prefer cars to mass transit.
Not for the sub 30 set. There's a reason people are moving back to urban cores in droves, there has been a very strong rejection of the 'suburban ideal' in recent years.

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11-15-2013, 05:32 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
There's a followup question to be had to this: how much of the economic impact goes to the team and how much goes to the community?

Baseball is such an "every night sport" that I have doubts that, in Atlanta (as opposed to, say, the Chicago Cubs), there's a lot of people hitting the neighborhood bars prior to Braves games. The surrounding community may really be an indicator of where the impact goes. That is something that should have grow organically.

Are Hawks fans less afraid of the city than Thrashers fans were? This might have something to do with what happened there.
A lot of hitting the bars depends on where you live/work relative to the game. I work in downtown Cleveland and live in the suburbs. So if I am going to a game during the week I am hitting a bar/restaurant before the game. If its a weekend game I am probably eating at home before the game. Whether I go out after the game depends on the time.

As for Hawks fans vs Thrashers fans, I can't say because I am not from Atlanta, but in a lot of markets not everyone is a fan of both teams since the seasons entirely overlap. Both are expensive tickets so its hard to follow both sports with a great intensity. I do recall Bill Daley saying the Thrasher fan base was mostly suburban.

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Old
11-15-2013, 11:22 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
The difference is LA has realized its mistakes and is attempting to fix them now with higher-density zoning and a robust mass transit expansion plan. Atlanta is still going full-steam ahead on suburban sprawl and lack of cohesive zoning...and the suburban public is supportive of this because it means it gets harder and harder for certain so-called "undesirables" to reach their neighborhoods. There is a strong undercurrent of segregation and Jim Crow that still permeates Atlanta urban planning.


It's sad eh Marty?


Atlanta is making all the same mistake Detroit did back in 1955. And they will get the same result.

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