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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

Will the NHL try Atlanta again?

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11-11-2013, 11:11 AM
  #1
Melrose Munch
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Will the NHL try Atlanta again?

Makes no sense not to go into Houston and Atlanta as double expansion with Quebec City and Seattle. Besides the owners failed the market.

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11-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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Never say never, but probably not for a long time, especially as the only viable arena is owned by the very people that wanted nothing to do with hockey and sold the Thrashers in the first place.

And Houston's a long shot as well, as any move into there would have to go through Les Alexander and his arena, and he doesn't seem to have the capital and/or the interest in an NHL team anymore.

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11-11-2013, 11:18 AM
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Beukeboom Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Makes no sense not to go into Houston and Atlanta as double expansion with Quebec City and Seattle. Besides the owners failed the market.
From what I know - the Atlanta Spirit Group was just an absolute train wreck as an ownership group. That being said - they basically kicked the Thrashers out of the Phillips Arena, and had absolutely NO desire to own a hockey team. Any "return to ATL" would have to include a new arena, which pretty much kills that throught process immediately.

I think that with a good ownership group, hockey could work in the ATL, but I highly doubt that anyone would be willing to pony up the $'s necessary to fund an arena for another try.

EDIT: Great minds think alike NFS!

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11-11-2013, 11:30 AM
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Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Never say never, but probably not for a long time, especially as the only viable arena is owned by the very people that wanted nothing to do with hockey and sold the Thrashers in the first place.

And Houston's a long shot as well, as any move into there would have to go through Les Alexander and his arena, and he doesn't seem to have the capital and/or the interest in an NHL team anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
From what I know - the Atlanta Spirit Group was just an absolute train wreck as an ownership group. That being said - they basically kicked the Thrashers out of the Phillips Arena, and had absolutely NO desire to own a hockey team. Any "return to ATL" would have to include a new arena, which pretty much kills that throught process immediately.

I think that with a good ownership group, hockey could work in the ATL, but I highly doubt that anyone would be willing to pony up the $'s necessary to fund an arena for another try.

EDIT: Great minds think alike NFS!
I thought ATL spirit sold both the teams. One to Winnipeg and one to Atlanta.

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11-11-2013, 12:03 PM
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tony d
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Probably not especially after it failing there twice. I think the only way the NHL expands there again is it goes over 40 teams which I hope never happens.

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11-11-2013, 12:06 PM
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No Fun Shogun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
I thought ATL spirit sold both the teams. One to Winnipeg and one to Atlanta.
Nope, ASG still owns the Atlanta Hawks and Philips Arena.

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11-11-2013, 12:08 PM
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Terry Yake
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i'd say 99.9 % no

why would they return to a city which lost both teams that played there? yes the atlanta spirit group was an absolute mess but the fan support was clearly not there either

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11-11-2013, 12:23 PM
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Killion
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Nope, ASG still owns the Atlanta Hawks and Philips Arena.
Ya, pretty much, and just a crying shame. Never say never as opined by others, but I dont see it happening anytime soon. Maybe, maybe in a decade, twenty years. And mores the pity. Frankly, Im still disturbed by the fact that the NHL rolled over in 1980 & let Skalbania move the original Flames to Alberta in essentially doubling up on a solid local offer. Short term gain for a cash strapped owner in Atlanta sure enough, and one who forced the NHL to let him accept that offer as he'd become privy to the simmering Pension Scam & wanted no part of it, threatening to blow the whistle on the lot of them unless he was permitted to sell for Relocation & cash in his chips. The NHL screwed themselves then and did so yet again over the past decade when it was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched the meanderings of ASG that they were up to no good. Honestly, I dont know how Don Waddell even sleeps at night nor why the Rangers would hire him after what he pulled & facilitated on behalf of his masters in Georgia. He knew exactly what was goin down & deliberately drove that franchise into the ditch and if he didnt, then he's gotta be by far the most incompetent General Manager in the history of the game of All Time.

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11-11-2013, 12:34 PM
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Killion
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... worse even than the absolutely horrid Ned Harkness in Detroit early 70's.

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11-11-2013, 12:46 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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I can see Atlanta being an option down the road, way down the road, but not anytime soon.

I don't see it being even remotely feasible for the league to consider until Atlanta builds a new arena...which, going by their record with the other teams, should happen by 2019.

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11-11-2013, 12:51 PM
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I think there is more interest in a team in Atlanta from people on this forum then in the NHL and Atlanta itself.

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11-11-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Makes no sense not to go into Houston and Atlanta as double expansion with Quebec City and Seattle. Besides the owners failed the market.
It makes perfect sense not to go there. Atlanta failed twice. The Flames were decent enough on the ice and still didn't draw. Houston, we've heard the song and dance with every southern city "large population, people moving there all the time, lots of transplants from northern cities, etc"

Until you get 10 teams in Canada the Southern markets will have to wait.

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11-11-2013, 01:37 PM
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Mightygoose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I can see Atlanta being an option down the road, way down the road, but not anytime soon.

I don't see it being even remotely feasible for the league to consider until Atlanta builds a new arena...which, going by their record with the other teams, should happen by 2019.
And even then, if an new arena is built down the road. If it's done as a replacement for Phillips, it would likley still be controlled by ASG. If they're still running the show it could be even longer.

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11-11-2013, 01:39 PM
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There would have to be some pretty hard evidence and iron clad guarantees the franchise would work. It would be quite an uphill battle.

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11-11-2013, 01:52 PM
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Bongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
I think there is more interest in a team in Atlanta from people on this forum then in the NHL and Atlanta itself.
Atlanta will never get another NHL team and given the way the fans here were abandoned by Bettman and the League, that's fine with me. After over 35 years of solid support, the NHL will never see another dime of my money.

As for the rest of the fans here, my good friend from the frozen north is mistaken. Given good ownership and a commitment to winning, Atlanta will support pro hockey. The Flames drew well, as did the Knights and the Thrash before Waddell and ASG started killing the market.

I suppose an AHL team might be in our future but as long as ASG owns the arena, probably not.

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11-11-2013, 01:56 PM
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Atlanta will never get another NHL team and given the way the fans here were abandoned by Bettman and the League, that's fine with me. After over 35 years of solid support, the NHL will never see another dime of my money.
I don't understand what Bettman and the league were supposed to do in this situation - the Thrashers had no place to play. What would have been a satisfactory way to handle that situation?

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11-11-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
As for the rest of the fans here, my good friend from the frozen north is mistaken. Given good ownership a commitment to winning, Atlanta will support pro hockey. The Flames drew well, as did the Knights and the Thrash before Waddell and ASG started killing the market.
Regardless of the excuses for lack of fans, facts are facts. Overall, the fan support for NHL hockey in Atlanta was poor. Some southern markets work (see Nashville and LA) and others don't (see Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida). There is nothing wrong with that either. It's like trying to make Cricket popular in Mongolia; it ain't ever gonna happen because there will never be a large enough fanbase to provide that support. That is just life, and some people need to accept that.

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11-11-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Regardless of the excuses for lack of fans, facts are facts. Overall, the fan support for NHL hockey in Atlanta was poor. Some southern markets work (see Nashville and LA) and others don't (see Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida). There is nothing wrong with that either. It's like trying to make Cricket popular in Mongolia; it ain't ever gonna happen because there will never be a large enough fanbase to provide that support. That is just life, and some people need to accept that.
Revisionist history much? Atlanta's fan support didn't start to fail until ASG intentionally ran then team into the ground so that it would.

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11-11-2013, 02:02 PM
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It makes perfect sense not to go there. Atlanta failed twice. The Flames were decent enough on the ice and still didn't draw. Houston, we've heard the song and dance with every southern city "large population, people moving there all the time, lots of transplants from northern cities, etc"

Until you get 10 teams in Canada the Southern markets will have to wait.
Atlanta failed twice for different reasons, none of which should apply if they get competent ownership to run it the next time. The Flames were in a vastly different landscape that it's not relevant to now. If that Atlanta Flames team had started in this era, they would still be there. And the only reason the Thrashers failed was because they were sabotaged by the ASG group. There is plenty reason to believe Atlanta can work as a hockey market if they get an ownership group that is competent and wants to be there. However, with ASG still owning Philips Arena, that is the real reason why Atlanta is not an option at this point.

As for 10 teams in Canada, that's laughable. The Canadian teams don't even want 10 teams in Canada. They will be lucky if they get Quebec City but other than that, it isn't going to happen. I would bet easily on Sacramento getting an NHL team before there is a 9th team in Canada.

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11-11-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Revisionist history much? Atlanta's fan support didn't start to fail until ASG intentionally ran then team into the ground so that it would.
It's not revisionist history; it's cold hard facts that clearly some people will never accept.

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11-11-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
It's not revisionist history; it's cold hard facts that clearly some people will never accept.
What you've said is actually your opinion and assumptions, not facts.

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11-11-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
What you've said is actually your opinion and assumptions, not facts.
Go look up average fan support for both NHL Atlanta teams. That will bring you back into reality, unlike believing an NHL team in Sacramento will ever occur.

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11-11-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Go look up average fan support for both NHL Atlanta teams. That will bring you back into reality, unlike believing an NHL team in Sacramento will ever occur.
It doesn't do any good to look up average fan support with no context and since you're unwilling to hear anything about context, it's a pointless discussion with you. And I can say the same thing about 10 teams in Canada that you said about Sacramento. It's a fantasy that will never happen.

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11-11-2013, 02:10 PM
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What you've said is actually your opinion and assumptions, not facts.

It's fair to say that everyone is making some assumptions and offering opinions.

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11-11-2013, 02:11 PM
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IMHO the NHL has set itself up for 2 expansion teams in the east.
One in Quebec city, the other in Markham outside of Toronto.

anything else makes no sense over the next 20 years as these two expansion teams
will provide a great amount of funding to the current and future team owners.

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