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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLV

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Old
11-14-2013, 06:18 PM
  #76
Nihiliste
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Based on the value we got on the Downie trade we'll probably trade our 1st for Tom Gilbert or John Erskine

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11-14-2013, 06:29 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Based on the value we got on the Downie trade we'll probably trade our 1st for Tom Gilbert or John Erskine


Everyone acts like the Avs traded a star player for a complete scrub.

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11-14-2013, 06:53 PM
  #78
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Alright, I totally see where you all are coming from on the Weber thing. I agree that EDM is a better fit, and also is in more of a position to want a big shake-up.

Best of luck this year. I owe my hockey fan-ship to Roy and Sakic, so the Avs are always one of my second teams. Once the Preds are really out of it (probably soon) I'll be hopping aboard your bandwagon.

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Old
11-14-2013, 06:55 PM
  #79
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Everyone acts like the Avs traded a star player for a complete scrub.
We made this team worse in the short and probably even longterm (Downie could have gotten nice futures at the deadline).

By now everyone should have seen that Talbot is a 3rd / 4th liner. You can't really play him in the top 6.

Downie was a 2nd / 3rd liner that did not look out of place in the top 6

Talbot is better defensively, does not take bad penalties, maybe a good role model for MacKinnon and is signed relatively cheap for a few more years.

Still. If both hit UFA at the same time, Downie will get close to 3.5 M - 4M (could have gotten more if he had stayed healthy) and Talbot would struggle to earn more than his current 1.75 M.

Supply and demand. Gritty players that can be placed in your top 6 are in high demand. 3rd / 4 th liners? Not so much.

Roy asked for Talbot and Holmgren took him to school.
It happens. I just hope that Roy learns from that.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post


Everyone acts like the Avs traded a star player for a complete scrub.
Talbot's a good role player, but that doesn't mean the trade was good value. When other GMs express surprise that a player you traded away for a mediocre return was even available, it probably means you're not maximizing the return on your asset.

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11-14-2013, 07:07 PM
  #81
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I still don't mind the trade. Let's not forget Downie was bumped to the third line before he was traded--his time on the top line was not a permanent thing.

We got a defensively sound forward who can kill penalties and is signed to a cheap cap hit in exchange for a guy who can provide physicality and the occasional goal on a scoring line, but also commits dumb penalties and as an undersized physical player, gets injured a lot.

Yes, it's true, Talbot doesn't have any offensive game, but I think he addresses a huge need that Downie simply didn't. It's just a shame he arrived and not long after Tanguay suffered his annual injury. Couple those two things with the fact that McGinn has gone cold once again and you've lost a lot of scoring depth.

And I don't buy that Downie could've garnered more at the deadline, not when he's UFA at season's end. I think people are seriously overvaluing Steve Downie here. He is not, and never will be, a scoring forward.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I still don't mind the trade. Let's not forget Downie was bumped to the third line before he was traded--his time on the top line was not a permanent thing.

We got a defensively sound forward who can kill penalties and is signed to a cheap cap hit in exchange for a guy who can provide physicality and the occasional goal on a scoring line, but also commits dumb penalties and as an undersized physical player, gets injured a lot.

Yes, it's true, Talbot doesn't have any offensive game, but I think he addresses a huge need that Downie simply didn't. It's just a shame he arrived and not long after Tanguay suffered his annual injury. Couple those two things with the fact that McGinn has gone cold once again and you've lost a lot of scoring depth.

And I don't buy that Downie could've garnered more at the deadline, not when he's UFA at season's end. I think people are seriously overvaluing Steve Downie here. He is not, and never will be, a scoring forward.
The problem is not Talbot nor the fact that we traded Downie. The problem is that Downie is a rarer and more valuable asset than a PK specialist. In the past we filled that role by trading a 4th for Winnik. I don't think you need to give up one of your only expendable assets that has some value for a guy who's best served playing on the 4th line and PK.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:11 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
We made this team worse in the short and probably even longterm (Downie could have gotten nice futures at the deadline).

By now everyone should have seen that Talbot is a 3rd / 4th liner. You can't really play him in the top 6.

Downie was a 2nd / 3rd liner that did not look out of place in the top 6

Talbot is better defensively, does not take bad penalties, maybe a good role model for MacKinnon and is signed relatively cheap for a few more years.

Still. If both hit UFA at the same time, Downie will get close to 3.5 M - 4M (could have gotten more if he had stayed healthy) and Talbot would struggle to earn more than his current 1.75 M.

Supply and demand. Gritty players that can be placed in your top 6 are in high demand. 3rd / 4 th liners? Not so much.

Roy asked for Talbot and Holmgren took him to school.
It happens. I just hope that Roy learns from that.
I don't think he got "taken to school" at all.

It's already been said that Downie was not going to be re-signed, so they acquired someone who they felt would help out in a different way. There's more to being a hockey player than just scoring (which was something that Downie was having some trouble doing before his trade).

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:13 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I don't think he got "taken to school" at all.

It's already been said that Downie was not going to be re-signed, so they acquired someone who they felt would help out in a different way. There's more to being a hockey player than just scoring (which was something that Downie was having some trouble doing before his trade).
Maybe, but Downie isn't valuable because of "just scoring" anyways. Obviously its just speculation but I wish they had shopped him around a bit. Maybe they could have got a good UFA dman like Nikitin back to bump Sarich or Guenin down the depth chart for instance, who knows. Like I've said, I don't think a 4th line PKer should really cost all that much.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:14 PM
  #85
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Talbot is a 15 minute a night third line defensive forward.

Downie is a 16-17 minute a night pest/playmaker.

No one got hosed here. Just changed the ingredients of the teams. Roy seems to place a lot of value on having a solid PK, which I agree with. When you don't have a PP QB and can't trust your PP to consistently produce, not allowing goals while on the PK compensates.


Last edited by Freudian: 11-14-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Old
11-14-2013, 07:28 PM
  #86
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The only thing about the Talbot for Downie trade that I didn't like was that we didn't manage to leverage for any additional assets, even if its minor. Downie is a more valuable player on the market, but I guess Roy was too high on Talbot to care. It can still work out because trades are about improving your team, regardless of the value, but I'd like to have both value and need fulfilled.

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Old
11-14-2013, 07:35 PM
  #87
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The only thing about the Talbot for Downie trade that I didn't like was that we didn't manage to leverage for any additional assets, even if its minor. Downie is a more valuable player on the market, but I guess Roy was too high on Talbot to care. It can still work out because trades are about improving your team, regardless of the value, but I'd like to have both value and need fulfilled.
Add that we were off to the best start in franchise history and that Philly desperately needed to do something.
And Philly still managed to get better value.

That is what bugs me. Even an additional 3rd (with the leverage we had we might even have gotten a 2nd if we included a 4th /5th)
could have made a difference down the road.

I trust Pracey that he could have gotten us something that has a shot at improving us down the road when we contend (or atleast be trade bait).

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Old
11-14-2013, 08:54 PM
  #88
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That will close off Weber, easily. You won't get a top 3 D in the game without Duchene, Mackinnon, or Landeskog.
While Weber's outstanding...that's fine. Our forward core makes the need for a dominant #1 like weber non existent. So we're not a team who'd realistically make a move for weber, especially with how well EJ and Hejda are playing.

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11-14-2013, 08:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Talbot's a good role player, but that doesn't mean the trade was good value. When other GMs express surprise that a player you traded away for a mediocre return was even available, it probably means you're not maximizing the return on your asset.
The right trades don't always maximize the return on your assets, Varly trade, EJ trade, etc.

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Old
11-14-2013, 09:19 PM
  #90
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The right trades don't always maximize the return on your assets, Varly trade, EJ trade, etc.
Maybe but I don't think the best teams get and stay where they are by trading 80 cents to the dollar on a regular basis.

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11-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #91
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Can we please trade for a defenseman now?

Guenin's play has slipped, Holden is a trainwreck defensively, Wilson's out with back problems, and Sarich looks like he might be concussed. Plus Hejda might be a bit banged up too from that hard slam he took into the end boards on his shoulder.

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11-14-2013, 10:59 PM
  #92
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Can we please trade for a defenseman now? Guenin's play has slipped, Holden is a trainwreck defensively, and Sarich looks like he might be concussed. Plus Hejda might be a bit banged up too from that hard slam he took into the end boards on his shoulder.
Benoit's play has also gone downhill.

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:01 PM
  #93
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Talbot is a 15 minute a night third line defensive forward.

Downie is a 16-17 minute a night pest/playmaker.

No one got hosed here. Just changed the ingredients of the teams. Roy seems to place a lot of value on having a solid PK, which I agree with. When you don't have a PP QB and can't trust your PP to consistently produce, not allowing goals while on the PK compensates.
I like how Talbot will fit in as a vet with this young team, but he has no offensive ability at all, and he's kinda slow. Playing him 15 minutes a game just hurts the team. He should be a 4th liner.

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11-14-2013, 11:04 PM
  #94
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They should have traded Downie for a dman.

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:08 PM
  #95
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They should have traded Downie for a dman.
Nikitin was available for a winger apparently

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #96
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Yes everything is a disaster just like last year. They'll end up with 39 points again but at least they might be able to draft Reinhart.

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:21 PM
  #97
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Nikitin was available for a winger apparently
Where was this rumor? Haven't heard that.

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:24 PM
  #98
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I wouldn't be giving away any key pieces for defenceman right now. I know there aren't many choices for UFA's, but there are some. Heck, if things get bad enough, i'd rather scratch guenin, holden and sarich and put in Barrie, Elliott and Siemens. Sounds bad and funny all at the same time but we have to realize we finished 29th last year. We have a great young team who are definitely good enough to make the playoffs but we aren't making any runs for the cup yet. Let's be patient and not throw away any key pieces out of desperation.

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11-14-2013, 11:29 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Nikitin was available for a winger apparently
Let's not act like that would have been a good trade either. Nikitin has been a consistent healthy scratch this year.

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Old
11-14-2013, 11:30 PM
  #100
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Versteeg back to Chicago.

If he gets his **** together, they get even stronger.

edit: Panthers retain half his salary as well. Hawks pay him 2.2M/yr.


Last edited by Avs_19: 11-14-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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