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props to MT and MB

View Poll Results: Do you like how MT and MB handle the young players
YES 38 38.78%
NO 14 14.29%
YES but need more patience 18 18.37%
NO they should give more kids opportunity 28 28.57%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-20-2013, 07:47 AM
  #1
BRAD HABSFAN
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props to MT and MB

I really have to hand it to those 2 in how they use our young guys. 2 years in a row they have brought up young players to give them a shot. Sure injuries to the vets played a role but they are not afraid to keep youngsters on the big club. This year Bournival, last year it was Galchenyuk and Gallagher.

They let Tinordi and Beaulieu get a shot with the big club. Naturally D is a tougher position to learn at that level and again injuries helped play a role in them staying,

The first 3; Bournival, and the 2 Gallys have given a lot of spark and enthusiasm to this team. Next year we should see some of our vets moving on and more responsibility on the shoulders of these young guns. Let our Dmen mature this year in Hamilton with hope of a late year call up and then play 5th-6th dman minutes next year.

Naturally its TV but I liked how they handled Leblanc. Basically saying--'your work ethic was horrible last year, but this year you stepped up 100% more'. They seem to know what buttons to push with this kid and hopefully he gets another late call up if he continues to grow.

Many years we have heard how great of a prospect pool we always seem to have but now finally we are seeing some results..thanks again to MT and MB for giving the young guys a shot and not benching a kid for a rookie mistake.

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11-20-2013, 07:58 AM
  #2
poetryinmotion
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Wake me when Galchenyuk is at center for more than a game.

Other than that he's handling them fine.

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11-20-2013, 08:06 AM
  #3
LeMAD
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You are right. Even with Subban I think they are doing a great job. But you won't make many friends in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Wake me when Galchenyuk is at center for more than a game.
There's no rush in making him a center (and at the same time giving him more responsablities). Let him slowly develop his game and gain confidence. The time will come sooner than later. He's only 19...

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11-20-2013, 08:09 AM
  #4
Habster33
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The hate for MT and MB is stupid here!

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11-20-2013, 08:15 AM
  #5
Lshap
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It's important to focus on the big-picture, which, as the OP says, is all about turning prospects into NHL players. Even with MB's questionable contracts, I'll give him credit for bringing up more prospects than any previous GM I can remember. Would Galchenyuk, Gallagher or Bournival have become regulars on Gauthier's team? No way. Would we have seen Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and Holland brought up for serious looks under Gainey? Probably not.

This is a distinctly Bergevin vision of the Habs. The results on the ice have been impressive. The results off the ice will be how much cap space we'll save with a chunk of the roster on ELCs and RFA contracts. How high the team goes will depend on the next wave of prospects, which include a boatload of big Dmen and strong 2nd and 3rd line forwards.

Bergevin's legacy as a Cup-builder or bubble-team also-ran is presently in the hands of a bunch of 20-year-olds.

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11-20-2013, 08:16 AM
  #6
poetryinmotion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
You are right. Even with Subban I think they are doing a great job. But you won't make many friends in here.



There's no rush in making him a center (and at the same time giving him more responsablities). Let him slowly develop his game and gain confidence. The time will come sooner than later. He's only 19...
And when can we safely say that he's ''ready'', next week, month, season, never? At some point you have to let him learn on the job at center. So far so good at wing but don't you feel that it's been enough coddling? He hasn't played center in 4 years now going back all the way to pre-injury. It's stupid that we have so many centers now, and not very good ones either, so that our future elite one can play wing.

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11-20-2013, 08:23 AM
  #7
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We won one game... and now we're going to forgive the fact that Therrien is an awful coach, still shows favortism to certain players and is one of the biggest hypocrites at the coaching position we've ever seen?

Stop being bipolar. I can be happy DD produced and helped us win a game, but I'm not going to start being a staunch supporter of a player I have always identified as someone who has no place on a contending team.

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11-20-2013, 08:24 AM
  #8
Blind Gardien
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I've seen worse... lots worse. At least young kids get a chance. Guys like Bournival and Gallagher made the team when it might have been easier to let them not make it, lots of guys get cameo callups from Hamilton. Galchenyuk got to play at 18 and it worked out. Etc. Now, since a lot of these guys are actually our best players even at a young age, there is a legit complaint that they don't get _enough_ ice/responsibility. But tbh, we could have had it worse.

I don't like Therrien, and so far Bergevin doesn't have a lot to show on the GM side (even though I like him). I'd like to see our best young kids play a little more, but I think overall they are doing a good job in terms of letting young kids get a chance to make the team and step up from junior/Hamilton at the right times.

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11-20-2013, 08:33 AM
  #9
Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
And when can we safely say that he's ''ready'', next week, month, season, never? At some point you have to let him learn on the job at center. So far so good at wing but don't you feel that it's been enough coddling? He hasn't played center in 4 years now going back all the way to pre-injury. It's stupid that we have so many centers now, and not very good ones either, so that our future elite one can play wing.
Fair point. Aside from becoming an effective playmaker from the middle, Galchenyuk has to learn to take a faceoff. He was hopelessly outmatched playing center against... St-Louis, Colorado, can't remember... and showed how far he still is from being a legit C.

I don't know the proper amount of time to wait, but I'd guess they'll keep spoon-feeding him the C for another year. He'll either get it, or accept his fate as a winger.

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11-20-2013, 08:52 AM
  #10
TT1
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i like how everyones opinion changes after each game

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11-20-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
i like how everyones opinion changes after each game
After a win: "I love how MT and MB handle things."
After a loss: "**** MB, **** MT, FIRE THEM ALL, TRADE PACIORETTY, TRADE THIS JOSS GEORGES GUY, PLEKANEC STINKS, DESHARNAIS TO EUROPE."

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11-20-2013, 09:05 AM
  #12
Andy
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People forget that Gallagher almost made the team when Martin was coach. We also saw Subban, Pacioretty, Desharnais, Weber, Pyatt, Eller, White all make the team in a single season under the old management. Hell, the year we finished first in 07-08 we had Sergei, Andrei, O'Byrne, Lapierre, Latendresse, Halak, Chipchura and Price all the nhl.Even D'agostini saw some games.

Like with every regime, if youngsters show they are good enough to play, they will play.

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11-20-2013, 09:07 AM
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Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
You are right. Even with Subban I think they are doing a great job. But you won't make many friends in here.
Now I'm not suggesting they're bad with every young player but I do believe they aren't handling Subban well. Being an elite player doesn't mean they are developing him well right now. Duchene/O'Rielly/etc had Joe Sacco as their bench boss...just because they're good doesn't mean they were developed well under that staff.

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11-20-2013, 09:12 AM
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Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
i like how everyones opinion changes after each game
At least half the posters here are like that.

Then there are 25% that stay positive/realist and 25% that are always negative or doom and gloom.

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11-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #15
Monctonscout
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I like the idea of beefing up the "developmental" side with some good people. That being said we won't see the full extent of this until another 3-4 years. The big test won't be how many players develop and do they reach the NHL but are they ready off the ice to handle the ups and downs of the pro game. That's one area a lot of young guys struggled with in Montreal, the media and off ice distractions.

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11-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #16
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Don't like the poll. Therrien hasn't shown enough in the overall management of players to get any stand-out credit. The overuse of certain players at the expense of the better players, who in this case are the young players, tells me he's driven by ideology to some extent and I'd like to see that change.

As for Bergevin it's too early. Let's face it , Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Bournival boldly took what's theirs, it's impossible to say whether it's part of an overall strategy or just timing that these players came along with such incredible drive and ambition.

On the negative side, the team is staring down the barrel of a $3M/year contract to bottom pairing Raphael Diaz because of a lack of integration of young entry level defenseman.

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11-20-2013, 09:25 AM
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poetryinmotion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Don't like the poll. Therrien hasn't shown enough in the overall management of players to get any stand-out credit. The overuse of certain players at the expense of the better players, who in this case are the young players, tells me he's driven by ideology to some extent and I'd like to see that change.

As for Bergevin it's too early. Let's face it , Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Bournival boldly took what's theirs, it's impossible to say whether it's part of an overall strategy or just timing that these players came along with such incredible drive and ambition.

On the negative side, the team is staring down the barrel of a $3M/year contract to Raphael Diaz because of a lack of integration of young entry level defenseman.
This is a great point. Coming into the season, I thought for sure Tinordi would stay up due to his contributions of last yer and having a great camp. We have such a glut of average defensemen that form a barrier for JT and NB.

And it's not like our defense is great or anything, Price is just unreal since the start.

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11-20-2013, 09:28 AM
  #18
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Don't like the poll. Therrien hasn't shown enough in the overall management of players to get any stand-out credit. The overuse of certain players at the expense of the better players, who in this case are the young players, tells me he's driven by ideology to some extent and I'd like to see that change.

As for Bergevin it's too early. Let's face it , Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Bournival boldly took what's theirs, it's impossible to say whether it's part of an overall strategy or just timing that these players came along with such incredible drive and ambition.

On the negative side, the team is staring down the barrel of a $3M/year contract to Raphael Diaz because of a lack of integration of young entry level defenseman.
I don't see paying Diaz 3 mil/year as a negative.

If he keeps playing solid 2 way hockey, 20 minutes a night playing PP and PK and being a + player, there will be a nice market for him once one or more of the kids shows they are ready for a real NHL role(doesn't mean 12-14 minutes on the 3rd pair).

The team is pushing more towards having guys like Tinordi Beaulieu Nygren and Pateryn develop their game in the AHL with top 4 minutes(20-24 min) rather than just trying to survive for 12-14 minutes in the NHL.

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11-20-2013, 09:28 AM
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Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
At least half the posters here are like that.

Then there are 25% that stay positive/realist and 25% that are always negative or doom and gloom.
Realist =/= being complacent

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11-20-2013, 09:30 AM
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Gee what a shock. A 'MT and MB are gods' thread popoing up after a win.

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11-20-2013, 09:36 AM
  #21
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I have nothing against MT's handling of the young players, well almost nothing. It's hard to give Bournival some icetime with all those vets healthy. I can't say much against MB too...

.. but can we talk about Lefebvre instead? :/

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11-20-2013, 09:46 AM
  #22
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't see paying Diaz 3 mil/year as a negative.

If he keeps playing solid 2 way hockey, 20 minutes a night playing PP and PK and being a + player, there will be a nice market for him once one or more of the kids shows they are ready for a real NHL role(doesn't mean 12-14 minutes on the 3rd pair).

The team is pushing more towards having guys like Tinordi Beaulieu Nygren and Pateryn develop their game in the AHL with top 4 minutes(20-24 min) rather than just trying to survive for 12-14 minutes in the NHL.
No predictions here, but I think there is a 50/50 chance that Diaz will be pushed out by the sheer impact of the Subban/Markov contracts. The combined size of those players $ numbers has the potential to be game changing. They could force Bergevin's hand on the Tinordi/Beaulieu situation.

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11-20-2013, 10:03 AM
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MB's vision for a successful team will take up to 5 years. The major part of his vision lies on the shoulders of his prospects and their development. He's done a great job so far.

I thought Tinordi would play the season in the NHL , but keeping him in Hamilton was the better choice. We have 2 - 4 potential NHL defensemen developing Hamilton. We also have a handful of potential NHL forwards playing in the CHL and oversees. Assuming we graduate 1-2 every year, while still bolstering our prospect pool, we will become a perennial contender, and a respectable organization of the likes of Detroit and Chicago.

This was MB's plan from day 1. Unfortunately, we Habs fans lose sight of the plan when the team goes on a losing streak lol.

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11-20-2013, 10:14 AM
  #24
Dont Poke Subban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We won one game... and now we're going to forgive the fact that Therrien is an awful coach, still shows favortism to certain players and is one of the biggest hypocrites at the coaching position we've ever seen?

Stop being bipolar. I can be happy DD produced and helped us win a game, but I'm not going to start being a staunch supporter of a player I have always identified as someone who has no place on a contending team.
I feel the same. Even after last night, I still want MT gone. DD, Briere, Diaz,
Bouillon, Gionta still need to gtfo.

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11-20-2013, 10:25 AM
  #25
Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
No predictions here, but I think there is a 50/50 chance that Diaz will be pushed out by the sheer impact of the Subban/Markov contracts. The combined size of those players $ numbers has the potential to be game changing. They could force Bergevin's hand on the Tinordi/Beaulieu situation.
Agreed. If Tinordi/Beaulieu/Pateryn/Nygren are looking good, Diaz is trade bait. If things don't look good in Hamilton, Diaz probably stays, which means we're left with major defensive holes moving forward. Either way, whether he stays or goes, having him on contract with a reasonable salary adds value for us, or some other team.

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Originally Posted by Toshio View Post
I feel the same. Even after last night, I still want MT gone. DD, Briere, Diaz,
Bouillon, Gionta still need to gtfo.
18 months from now, I'll bet not a single person on your list will still be with the team.

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