HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

NYR shopping Michael Del Zotto

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-18-2013, 12:02 AM
  #301
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
One of the worst displays of asset management. One of the best ways to guarantee Lundqvist doesn't re-sign here. One guaranteed way to **** the bed for a top-5 pick.

We're not only going to drastically overpay for someone unproven. We're going to target a player with a lesser ceiling than some of the other young rising stars in this league.

This is a great trade for the Rangers if you in fact, hate the Rangers.
Disagree.
Hertl will likely, barring injury, make it as a star in this league.

Would be nice to get one of those other stars if such includes the likes of Seth Jones, but at this point, those teams seem to be holding on to those stars as building blocks. So you can consider one final order or not make a deal.

But a move for a pre-elite talent is still difficult to score.

It is reasonable to ask on your part if he is still worth a massive overpay.

But I disagree with your conclusion, particularly since I noted we could swing the pieces paid if we got something significant in return.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 12:27 AM
  #302
Kwayry
Registered User
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btlaffin View Post
How? Del Zotto doesn't bring anything to the table that Anaheim doesn't already have.

I was under the impression that MDZ is the whipping boy for the Rangers and I know a bunch of fans who are begging for him to be traded, but at the same time they are asking for a lot in return...
How about the other Rangers fans that don't want him traded?
I have not seen any argument backed up by facts or stats against DZ, the only argument is the eye test (i.e. I don't care about the stats, I just don't like him) and that "some" rangers fans want to trade him.

Kwayry is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 12:31 AM
  #303
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Absolutely not then. Although Edms pick will be high there's no guarantee of a good player. For every Hall there is a Daigle or Brendl. There's no guarantee we have a high pick and could essentially be trading del zotto to move up 8-10 spots which is totally not worth it.
As I hope I have conveyed, when I respond to different offers with different locations for the same player, it is both to extend courtesy to a poster and to utilize the competition of ideas.

Some have accused me of wanting to make a gazillion deals, based on every proposal made or responded to. Just wanna be clear about that.

If we are going back to Edmonton, I agree more than just a single 1st should be sought.

After considering boards discussion, I presently think the way to go there is either:
MDZ + Ranger 2014 1st
for
JSchultz + Edmonton 2014 1st

or MDZ + and four Ranger 2nds
for
Edmonton 2014 1st + 2015 1sts

-----------

As a separate deal, I would do (also or on its own)
Poillot + Dorsett + Powe + Falk + Stralman + Missainen
for
Klefbom, Marincin + Pitlick

all 5 can probably make Oilers NOW, help w. bottom 6. Stralman certainly useful. Falk is def oriented, and big and would help.
Cap dump LaBarbera is addition by subtraction, but can be emergency recall candidate if Talbot/Hank are out a few days.

Rangers would be taking on acceptable gamble on former 1st Kelfbom, and second rounders Marincin + Pitlick, they have more upside for later.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 12:32 AM
  #304
Kwayry
Registered User
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
As I hope I have conveyed, when I respond to different offers with different locations for the same player, it is both to extend courtesy to a poster and to utilize the competition of ideas.

Some have accused me of wanting to make a gazillion deals, based on every proposal made or responded to. Just wanna be clear about that.

If we are going back to Edmonton, I agree more than just a single 1st should be sought.

After considering boards discussion, I presently think the way to go there is either:
MDZ + Ranger 2014 1st
for
JSchultz + Edmonton 2014 1st

or MDZ + and four Ranger 2nds
for
Edmonton 2014 1st + 2015 1sts

-----------

As a separate deal, I would do (also or on its own)
Poillot + Dorsett + Powe + Falk + Stralman + Missainen
for
Klefbom, Marincin + Pitlick

all 5 can probably make Oilers NOW, help w. bottom 6. Stralman certainly useful. Falk is def oriented, and big and would help.
Cap dump LaBarbera is addition by subtraction, but can be emergency recall candidate if Talbot/Hank are out a few days.

Rangers would be taking on acceptable gamble on former 1st Kelfbom, and second rounders Marincin + Pitlick, they have more upside for later.
You should have your own threads, not sure why you want to hijack others.

Kwayry is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 12:55 AM
  #305
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
...
Quote:
Gah- I can't... WHAT!? ow! My head! Reported post for trolling/flaming. ... (didnt really report and am mostly overreacting for fun but good lord this is atrocious)
Your opinion and you are entitled to it.
But it is subjective, not empirical based or even objective. So let's be clear. It is atrocious only to you and those who share your opinion. "this is atrocious" is not a statement of fact.

Quote:
I think maybe you should be banned from all trade threads and the trade section of the board bc there is no way you are being serious so you must be trolling ...
I was serious.
I did qualify the proposal saying it was a huge gamble and there was a reason for such massive overpay.
That qualification, stated or implied, is basis establishing it is not trolling.

Quote:
... and there are strict no trolling policies here that are always enforced correctly and fairly here on HF.
Do not apply, not trolling.

Quote:
I'd like to say good lord but how could one exist when something like this exists?
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they say.

Quote:
You like proposing awful, horrendous trades, we get it,
You don't or same would not appear as awful.

Quote:
but there needs to be some filter...
No, freedom of speech properly prevails.
If you want to criticize anything I have said, that is entirely fair, provided you do so ON MERIT.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 01:26 AM
  #306
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
...
Quote:
To a degree I'm wrong to feel this way because it's his opinion. But I am questioning whether it really is his opinion or whether it's just intent to troll.
As answered in another post, it is truly my opinion.

Quote:
I understand gambling to get a top flight offensive game changer. What does that mean then? Because bm never clarified. he continually mentioned a gamble but didn't explain what he is trying to win with his gamble.
Sorry I was not more clear. Thought it was obvious. The gamble is two fold: both that the Rangers can short and long term, to an acceptable degree, endure the loss of asset paid for what they acquire - which I explained, is evidently the case; additionally, part 2 of the gamble is that Hertl delivers enough that he is worth what high price is being paid.

Quote:
Tavares is tavares already. It's not good to trade all that for Tavares.
Disagree, it would be terrific to swap that for Tavares.

Quote:
So why would it be good to trade it all for a guy who might be as good as tavares but probably won't be?
I agree it is even higher risk to hope he will be as good as Tavares.
But THAT is NOT the benchmark.
As stated, is the profit to acquire him enough to offset any risk and cost.

Quote:
Stepan is a 1st line center. Hertl may be a 1st line player eventually. Is Hertl going to be a part of a line that can control the pace of a game and pin teams in their own zone? Stepan does that now. For this reason Stepan for Hertl straight up isn't even smart. Stepan for Hertl straight up is already a gamble.
Stepan is first line. But he seems near top of his plateau. He will not likely get faster, become sniper, etc.
We are still having problems scoring.
If a goal scoring threat can be added, we need to seriously consider such a move. If the guy we get is also a sniper, that's another plus to factor in.
Stepan is extremely smart, great vision. That's about it.
Hertl appears to be a finisher.

Quote:
Add to that Staal who is a #1 D man who shuts down the other teams top player. Then add MDZ so you can't even put a LD there to replace Staal. MDZ is up and down but is a viable NHL D man.
If you are asking a team for it's equivalent of Kreider so you can add him to your actual Kreider, you have to overpay. Then, in the case of SJ, they are already strong at C, so giving them a C in payment is partially discounted. That's why all the extra assets.

Quote:
There is no justification for this offer even being posted.
There is a difference between having an opinion and being opinionated. I was not especially vague before, and happy to clarify it for you now.
But no, you may disagree, but it is a legit proposal given the legit ? of whether SJ would prefer to keep its bauble, or the massive package.
It would not be right to arbitrarily deny a poster from such a question.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 01:36 AM
  #307
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
In seriousness and beyond a mods' powers, at some point, a poster's trade proposal creation privileges should be revocable based upon some threshold vote on that fan's team's subforum on the grounds that practically every freaking thread discussing trades by that team get derailed by particular poster's outlandish proposals.

See, e.g., this thread. Even if you have the poster in question on your ignore list, you are still forced to drudge through the outlandish proposal quoted 8+ times plus additional discussion about it.
This was not outlandish. It was qualified and based on a ? of whether or not SJ would prefer its nice bauble or would prefer a massive package. That is a legit ? behind a legit offer.

You are choosing to hate the package which you don't like. Fine.
But that does not mean it was not a legit proposal.

Mistakes like yours are basis to do the opposite of what you suggest. Freedom of speech. Competition of ideas, these must prevail.

Our Constitution has always served all best when expanded in extravert fashion. The one time it was made restrictive, i.e., prohibition, it was a failure that had to be repealed.

Live and learn.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 01:40 AM
  #308
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
You should have your own threads, not sure why you want to hijack others.
There is no hijack.
I directly responded to a poster's post talking about MDZ to Edmonton.

I then clarified that IMO if Oilers want other pieces, let's make it separate deal. I didn't specifically say it here, but I was by extension agreeing with our base, no no no Hemsky.

Being thorough and detailed on related aspects is not necessarily a hijack.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 05:19 AM
  #309
Sticky Fingers
NYR
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
How about the other Rangers fans that don't want him traded?
I have not seen any argument backed up by facts or stats against DZ, the only argument is the eye test (i.e. I don't care about the stats, I just don't like him) and that "some" rangers fans want to trade him.
My eyes see him scratched over Faulk.

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 07:24 AM
  #310
Matt4776
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Matt4776's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,151
vCash: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
My eyes see him scratched over Faulk.
I wish we had Faulk.

Matt4776 is online now  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:01 AM
  #311
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mygameworn View Post
The Isles would LOVE to have MDZ.
That's funny, because I would really like Brock Nelson.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:16 AM
  #312
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 500
with SJ

Havlat (30% retained) Mueller, and Demers for MDZ and Hagelin

pspot is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:19 AM
  #313
DMPD
Mats, Zuke of NY
 
DMPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 19,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
with SJ

Havlat (30% retained) Mueller, and Demers for MDZ and Hagelin
No, sorry.

__________________


rip
DMPD is online now  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:41 AM
  #314
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
No, sorry.
lol its okay

just trying to get Havlat somewhere for my fantasy team

seriously though, I don't think he's done and with Rangers struggling to score goals he could help....and at 30% retained could be a good deal

Mueller is a really good D prospect too

pspot is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:45 AM
  #315
damicius
Registered User
 
damicius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Prague
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 241
vCash: 500
Mdz

MDZ+1st for Hemský rejected by NYR.

MDZ+3rd for Hemský rejected by EDM.


source: AH agent

damicius is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:47 AM
  #316
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
with SJ

Havlat (30% retained) Mueller, and Demers for MDZ and Hagelin
Retain 50% of Havlat's salary, add a pick, remove Del Zotto from the proposal - Rangers till pass. It's that off my friend.

Hagelin is going absolutely nowhere.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:48 AM
  #317
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damicius View Post
MDZ+1st for Hemský rejected by NYR.

MDZ+3rd for Hemský rejected by EDM.


source: AH agent
so MDZ + 2nd?

is this a goldie locks rhyme?

pspot is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:50 AM
  #318
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
with SJ

Havlat (30% retained) Mueller, and Demers for MDZ and Hagelin
Quote:
Originally Posted by damicius View Post
MDZ+1st for Hemský rejected by NYR.

MDZ+3rd for Hemský rejected by EDM.


source: AH agent

I don't buy any of this.

source: me

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:50 AM
  #319
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
with SJ

Havlat (30% retained) Mueller, and Demers for MDZ and Hagelin
Havlat has no value, Throw him in at 50% with Demers and then maybe for DZ but no way Hagelin is getting dealt anywhere

MN and WPG scouted the Rangers yesterday. I would like Spurgeon in a perfect world

Vitto79 is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:51 AM
  #320
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Retain 50% of Havlat's salary, add a pick, remove Del Zotto from the proposal - Rangers till pass. It's that off my friend.

Hagelin is going absolutely nowhere.
wasn't sure about Hagelin's value

Will be interesting to see if they move MDZ or not, McBain the same year had such a strong rookie campaign and it makes it so tough in terms of expectations....especially for D who they want to score and if they aren't after that first year people are tough on them.

NSH might be an interesting option ... if they think Ellis could handle NHL and maybe someone like Wilson who seems to always be stuck

pspot is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:54 AM
  #321
Jetsfareast
Helly Yeah
 
Jetsfareast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Philippines
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 300
burmistrov + redmond

Jetsfareast is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:55 AM
  #322
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
wasn't sure about Hagelin's value

Will be interesting to see if they move MDZ or not, McBain the same year had such a strong rookie campaign and it makes it so tough in terms of expectations....especially for D who they want to score and if they aren't after that first year people are tough on them.
Hagelin would require an overpayment. He's so important to our team.

Except MDZ has had several solid seasons since his rookie year. 41 points in 11-12, and 21 in 46 games last season.

He's purely a victim of circumstance. He's not good enough to bump Staal out of the LH spot on the 2nd pairing, and the organization is in love with John Moore and doesn't want to disrupt his development by sticking MDZ in his spot on the 3rd pairing. MDZ cannot play the right side. Whatever team is willing to put him on the left-side on the 2nd pairing is going to be absolutely thrilled with what they have. Hopefully the Rangers realize that and are pricing him accordingly.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 08:57 AM
  #323
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsfareast View Post
burmistrov + redmond
So a KHL player and a depth defender? How does that help us now?

Trxjw is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 09:07 AM
  #324
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 500
something around MDZ and Robidas and Eakins? Dallas would have to add
but its a RHD which would help now and could probably get a good prospect as well

Gives Dallas another piece to add to Seguin, Benn

pspot is offline  
Old
11-18-2013, 09:09 AM
  #325
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot View Post
something around MDZ and Robidas and Eakins? Dallas would have to add
but its a RHD which would help now and could probably get a good prospect as well

Gives Dallas another piece to add to Seguin, Benn
at 50% the salary I don't think Goligoski is a bad idea.

Vitto79 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.