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making MTL a contender

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Old
11-17-2013, 07:22 AM
  #1
GRECOHAB
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making MTL a contender

As a Habs fan a think that our team cant be considered as a contender yet. Although some great performances from Price and the youngsters (every player under 23 years old), i think that we are a bubble team that even if we make the playoffs it will be another early exit unfortunately. The good thing is that many admit there is a bright future going forward and we are a couple of pieces away of building the Cup condending team. The issue is that the safe track to acquire those pieces is the draft, but by the time the are up making the team we will already have expensive contracts in Subban, Eller, Galchenuyk, Gallagher, and Price's contract will be almost up.

I believe that we have a potential opening window of contending if we make some moves now. Assuming Galchenuyk and Gallagher will sign two year bridge contracts we have three years time, until they claim the big money. Add to this a multi year 7,5M contract for Subban and 4M contract for Eller, and in three years we will be a very expensive team. So i think we need to go all out, even if this means we give up some future picks, to get better now.

Recent history indicates that Cup contending teams has a great mix of highly paid veterans and highly talanted prospects that are paid at the minimum price, all of which have size so that they can keep pace with the atrocious schedule of an NHL season, plus 4 successful playoff series. So here are the moves i think we can do, now, in order to maximize our contention possibilities.

GIONTA + COLLBERG + 2ND in 2014 (MTL) for MYERS (BUF)

Montreal does this because they have to take a gamble at a top-4 RD. Such players are very difficult to find, without giving up much, and i think that a potential Markov-Myers tandem would be perfect as the 2nd D unit. In order to claim him we give up our captain for salary reasons and a star prospect plus a high pick.
Buffallo does this because they are rebuilding. Of course Myers is young and can be a member of the rebuild, but i think that they are giving up on him. If we take away his rookie year he is at least looking quite mediocre. Prospect wise BUF is exceptional at D (Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McNabb) and at C (Hodgson, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Schaller) but they lack good wingers (only Armia is quite decent) so Collberg would be a great addition.

BRIERE + BEAULIEU + 1ST in 2014 (MTL) for SIMMONDS (PHI)

Montreal maybe gives up much but acquires a great physical winger who can score, agitate and most of all is relatively cheap. A top D prospect and a 1st is a decent price to pay for such a player especially since he is also young.
Philadelphia, like Buffalo, should also be rebuilding. I dont think they know it quite yet but iuf they continue to struggle obviously something has to change. They give up a winger with size but the take back a 1st pick in the next draft plus a great PMD that they absolutely need for the future. Briere is a wash up for salary reasons but he is a player that can be very reliable in an enviroment he really knows. I expect he replaces over 50% of the points they lose in Simmonds, for the same amount of money. Reunited with Hartnell, and being close to his family, might be very effective for Briere.

GORGES (MTL) for BROUWER (WSH)

This is a trade a have seen being dicussed between both fan bases. It fills the need of both teams and is very close salary wise. MTL needs forwards with size and WSH needs a stay at home LD. Both happy we rap this up and go on.

DESHARNAIS + DIAZ (MTL) for KOPECKY (FLA)

Montreal does this because they trade away two players that can benefit from a change of scenery and gain some salary cap, while acquiring a winger with size that can be reliable at the 3rd line, and bring some veteran leadership there.
Florida at first probably wont do this...If we look more careful though, we can see many options being opened for Florida after this trade. They acquire a struggling cenetrman that may or may not find his game but this can give options in dealing with Matthias or Goc who are hot commodities right now. Also Diaz is a player that can play in their top-4 asap, plus gives them options in dealing Kulikov, or the vets, if needed. Quite a fair deal i think.

MONTREAL CANADIENS LINE UP

Price-Budaj

Pacioretty-Galchenuyk-Simmonds
Brouwer-Eller-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Kopecky
Prust-Bournival-Moen
ex.White-Leblanc-Thomas

Emelin-Subban
Markov-Myers
Murray-Bouillon
ex.Tinordi-Pateryn

From the above transactions we benefit almost 1,5M in cap space. Add to this 4M from not resigning Parros, Murray, Bouillion and we have the space (5,5M) to resign Subban and maybe White, under the current cap (5,5+2,8=8,3M). The increased cap space for next year (anticipated to be 6M, from 64M to 70M) can be used to resign Eller and some extra pieces....Of course i think we should resign Markov for the at least two more years (ideal scenario 10M for 2Y, some home discount).

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11-17-2013, 09:14 AM
  #2
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GIONTA + COLLBERG + 2ND in 2014 (MTL) for MYERS (BUF)

Awful for Buffalo. Gionta has negative value and Myers is a worth lot more than 2 2nd round picks

BRIERE + BEAULIEU + 1ST in 2014 (MTL) for SIMMONDS (PHI)

Flyers doesn't want Briere back and Simmonds is worth more than two b-prospects.

GORGES (MTL) for BROUWER (WSH)

Makes sense for both teams.

DESHARNAIS + DIAZ (MTL) for KOPECKY (FLA)

Desharnais has negative value and Florida can't take more d-man unless one is traded.

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11-17-2013, 09:45 AM
  #3
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The entire premise of this thread is flawed and it shows in your proposals; other teams don't exist to make you a contender.

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Old
11-17-2013, 09:49 AM
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1st trade is awful for buffalo. Wouldn't do the 2nd trade if I were Montreal because Beaulieu is looking like a potential top pairing PP quarter back defenceman. 3rd trade, u don't trade the leader and heart and soul of ur team for a 3rd liner. The Kopecky trade is alright for Montreal but it leaves no space for prospects such as bournival

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Old
11-17-2013, 09:50 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
As a Habs fan a think that our team cant be considered as a contender yet. Although some great performances from Price and the youngsters (every player under 23 years old), i think that we are a bubble team that even if we make the playoffs it will be another early exit unfortunately. The good thing is that many admit there is a bright future going forward and we are a couple of pieces away of building the Cup condending team. The issue is that the safe track to acquire those pieces is the draft, but by the time the are up making the team we will already have expensive contracts in Subban, Eller, Galchenuyk, Gallagher, and Price's contract will be almost up.

I believe that we have a potential opening window of contending if we make some moves now. Assuming Galchenuyk and Gallagher will sign two year bridge contracts we have three years time, until they claim the big money. Add to this a multi year 7,5M contract for Subban and 4M contract for Eller, and in three years we will be a very expensive team. So i think we need to go all out, even if this means we give up some future picks, to get better now.

Recent history indicates that Cup contending teams has a great mix of highly paid veterans and highly talanted prospects that are paid at the minimum price, all of which have size so that they can keep pace with the atrocious schedule of an NHL season, plus 4 successful playoff series. So here are the moves i think we can do, now, in order to maximize our contention possibilities.

GIONTA + COLLBERG + 2ND in 2014 (MTL) for MYERS (BUF)

Montreal does this because they have to take a gamble at a top-4 RD. Such players are very difficult to find, without giving up much, and i think that a potential Markov-Myers tandem would be perfect as the 2nd D unit. In order to claim him we give up our captain for salary reasons and a star prospect plus a high pick.
Buffallo does this because they are rebuilding. Of course Myers is young and can be a member of the rebuild, but i think that they are giving up on him. If we take away his rookie year he is at least looking quite mediocre. Prospect wise BUF is exceptional at D (Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McNabb) and at C (Hodgson, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Schaller) but they lack good wingers (only Armia is quite decent) so Collberg would be a great addition.

BRIERE + BEAULIEU + 1ST in 2014 (MTL) for SIMMONDS (PHI)

Montreal maybe gives up much but acquires a great physical winger who can score, agitate and most of all is relatively cheap. A top D prospect and a 1st is a decent price to pay for such a player especially since he is also young.
Philadelphia, like Buffalo, should also be rebuilding. I dont think they know it quite yet but iuf they continue to struggle obviously something has to change. They give up a winger with size but the take back a 1st pick in the next draft plus a great PMD that they absolutely need for the future. Briere is a wash up for salary reasons but he is a player that can be very reliable in an enviroment he really knows. I expect he replaces over 50% of the points they lose in Simmonds, for the same amount of money. Reunited with Hartnell, and being close to his family, might be very effective for Briere.

GORGES (MTL) for BROUWER (WSH)

This is a trade a have seen being dicussed between both fan bases. It fills the need of both teams and is very close salary wise. MTL needs forwards with size and WSH needs a stay at home LD. Both happy we rap this up and go on.

DESHARNAIS + DIAZ (MTL) for KOPECKY (FLA)

Montreal does this because they trade away two players that can benefit from a change of scenery and gain some salary cap, while acquiring a winger with size that can be reliable at the 3rd line, and bring some veteran leadership there.
Florida at first probably wont do this...If we look more careful though, we can see many options being opened for Florida after this trade. They acquire a struggling cenetrman that may or may not find his game but this can give options in dealing with Matthias or Goc who are hot commodities right now. Also Diaz is a player that can play in their top-4 asap, plus gives them options in dealing Kulikov, or the vets, if needed. Quite a fair deal i think.

MONTREAL CANADIENS LINE UP

Price-Budaj

Pacioretty-Galchenuyk-Simmonds
Brouwer-Eller-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Kopecky
Prust-Bournival-Moen
ex.White-Leblanc-Thomas

Emelin-Subban
Markov-Myers
Murray-Bouillon
ex.Tinordi-Pateryn

From the above transactions we benefit almost 1,5M in cap space. Add to this 4M from not resigning Parros, Murray, Bouillion and we have the space (5,5M) to resign Subban and maybe White, under the current cap (5,5+2,8=8,3M). The increased cap space for next year (anticipated to be 6M, from 64M to 70M) can be used to resign Eller and some extra pieces....Of course i think we should resign Markov for the at least two more years (ideal scenario 10M for 2Y, some home discount).
Not going to read your whole post, but IMO it's unfortunate that you guys are wasting precious prime years of Price with such a mediocre team. Bergevin should stick his neck out a bit and make a bold move for the present. The last 6-7 years it seems Montreal is really hesitant to make the big move. At some point the team is going to have to stop spinning their wheels and go for it. Making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round or second round every year means nothing.

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Old
11-17-2013, 10:36 AM
  #6
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No thanks all trade are bad

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11-17-2013, 12:04 PM
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Not going to read your whole post, but IMO it's unfortunate that you guys are wasting precious prime years of Price with such a mediocre team. Bergevin should stick his neck out a bit and make a bold move for the present. The last 6-7 years it seems Montreal is really hesitant to make the big move. At some point the team is going to have to stop spinning their wheels and go for it. Making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round or second round every year means nothing.
Because the last big move was one of the worst trades in franchise history.

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Old
11-17-2013, 12:15 PM
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GRECOHAB
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1st trade is awful for buffalo. Wouldn't do the 2nd trade if I were Montreal because Beaulieu is looking like a potential top pairing PP quarter back defenceman. 3rd trade, u don't trade the leader and heart and soul of ur team for a 3rd liner. The Kopecky trade is alright for Montreal but it leaves no space for prospects such as bournival
The 1st trade isn't awful for Buffalo. It is a high risk, high reward trade for both teams, because we dont know yet what kind of player Myers is. As a rookie he looked like a world class defender so he got rewarder with a luxury contract (top pairing money). Since then, for two and a half years, he is performing like a 3rd pairing D. He is relatively young and here is the big risk. If Myers returns to his rookie form then its a win trade for MTL, but if he continues to struggle then MTL is stuck with a huge contract for a long time, and Buffalo not only unloads this contract making room for others, but adds a very promissing winger and another very good pick.

The 2nd trade might be an overpayment, i agree. Not for Beaulieu, but for the 1st round pick, especially considering Simmond's up and downs. The thing is i am tired of reading our whole fan base salivating the anti-Lucic player. Well Simmonds is the anti-Lucic player and his contract is very, very friendly, thats why i think it will take an overpayment to pray him away. I think its worth though, even if Beaulieu becomes a top -2 PMD.

Allow me to disagree about Gorges. Heart and soul, yes...top-4 D...no, and i think he is payed to much for a 5th,6th D in the league. It seems like when Gill left town he took something from Gorges with him. OK, he blocks shots, throws his body around, is good at the PK, keeps on living with Gallagher, but seriously are we happy with the 3,9M we pay him? Many can argue that we have worse contracts in our team, i agree, but i would be willing to part with Gorges especially if we first do the 1st trade, and acquire a top-4 D with size.

Desharnais and Briere doesn't leave any room for Bournival, not Kopecky. He will be a great addition to our squad. A true compeditor, two-way hockey player that loves to drive or park at the net. He will thrive will Plekanec centering him. A true shutdown line that can give time and space to our other lines. I would take this trade and run.

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Old
11-17-2013, 12:17 PM
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No thanks all trade are bad
Why do you think they are all bad?

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Old
11-17-2013, 12:20 PM
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Not going to read your whole post, but IMO it's unfortunate that you guys are wasting precious prime years of Price with such a mediocre team. Bergevin should stick his neck out a bit and make a bold move for the present. The last 6-7 years it seems Montreal is really hesitant to make the big move. At some point the team is going to have to stop spinning their wheels and go for it. Making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round or second round every year means nothing.
Thats exactly why we should go all in now...Price is playing out of his mind and still has an under 0.500 wining record. Its a shame...We have to ice a better team in front of him now...Come on MB make this happen...

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Old
11-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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Canucks will take Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Eller/Plekanec from you!

What do u want? Edler + Jensen + 1st 2014 for Galchenyuk?

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11-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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GIONTA + COLLBERG + 2ND in 2014 (MTL) for MYERS (BUF)

Awful for Buffalo. Gionta has negative value and Myers is a worth lot more than 2 2nd round picks

BRIERE + BEAULIEU + 1ST in 2014 (MTL) for SIMMONDS (PHI)

Flyers doesn't want Briere back and Simmonds is worth more than two b-prospects.

GORGES (MTL) for BROUWER (WSH)

Makes sense for both teams.

DESHARNAIS + DIAZ (MTL) for KOPECKY (FLA)

Desharnais has negative value and Florida can't take more d-man unless one is traded.
Myers right now isn't worth to 2nd round picks...
Beaulieu and a 1st cant be b-prospects, as you mentioned...
Desharnais and Diaz to FLA is unlikely but opens up a lot of options for them...

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11-17-2013, 12:32 PM
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Canucks will take Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Eller/Plekanec from you!

What do u want? Edler + Jensen + 1st 2014 for Galchenyuk?
Galchenyuk and Gallagher are obviously untouchable...same as Eller exept if you want to part with Kesler...which i assume you don't.

Now, Plekanec i think day by day is becoming more expendable in Montreal and i think that he would be the ideal 2nd line centerman in Vancouver, assuming Kesler sticks with the Sedins. The issue is a would hesitate to trade him unless we take care of the mess we made last year by signing both Desharnais and Briere. If MB finds a way to take care of both matters and magically can transform both into a 3rd C with size then i would be OK trading Plekanec for some kind of package involving one of your top-4 defenders.

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11-17-2013, 12:45 PM
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Montreal should not be trying to contend at all quick fixes worked so well last time with McDonaugh didn't it? Let the guys develop

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11-17-2013, 01:31 PM
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Michael-Scott-god-no.gif from Buffalo. Absolutely brutal.

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11-17-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
Myers right now isn't worth to 2nd round picks...
Beaulieu and a 1st cant be b-prospects, as you mentioned...
Desharnais and Diaz to FLA is unlikely but opens up a lot of options for them...
Spoken like someone who obviously hasn't watched Myers recently. He's been getting better and better this season, even showing flashes of the dominance he did his rookie year.

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11-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post

Recent history indicates that Cup contending teams has a great mix of highly paid veterans and highly talanted prospects that are paid at the minimum price, all of which have size so that they can keep pace with the atrocious schedule of an NHL season, plus 4 successful playoff series. So here are the moves i think we can do, now, in order to maximize our contention possibilities.

GIONTA + COLLBERG + 2ND in 2014 (MTL) for MYERS (BUF)

Montreal does this because they have to take a gamble at a top-4 RD. Such players are very difficult to find, without giving up much, and i think that a potential Markov-Myers tandem would be perfect as the 2nd D unit. In order to claim him we give up our captain for salary reasons and a star prospect plus a high pick.
Buffallo does this because they are rebuilding. Of course Myers is young and can be a member of the rebuild, but i think that they are giving up on him. If we take away his rookie year he is at least looking quite mediocre. Prospect wise BUF is exceptional at D (Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, McNabb) and at C (Hodgson, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Schaller) but they lack good wingers (only Armia is quite decent) so Collberg would be a great addition.
Myers is worth a lot more than 2 2nds + cap dump.

If they trade him it would not be to a divisional rival unless its a major overpayment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
BRIERE + BEAULIEU + 1ST in 2014 (MTL) for SIMMONDS (PHI)
Cant trade Driere back to Philadelphia because he was a compliance buy out by Philadelphia

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11-17-2013, 04:01 PM
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Myers is worth a lot more than 2 2nds + cap dump.

If they trade him it would not be to a divisional rival unless its a major overpayment.



Cant trade Driere back to Philadelphia because he was a compliance buy out by Philadelphia
Remove Briere and the remains have been more or less agreed upon by both fan bases at times.

While not a garbage offer (since when does Gionta have negative value???), the Sabres would most likely be able to get a slightly better offer elsewhere. Myers is too young to let go at this point, anyway.

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11-17-2013, 05:12 PM
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Remove Briere and the remains have been more or less agreed upon by both fan bases at times.

While not a garbage offer (since when does Gionta have negative value???), the Sabres would most likely be able to get a slightly better offer elsewhere. Myers is too young to let go at this point, anyway.

Yes it is a garbage offer...why does Buffalo get back a UFA?

If buffalo is trading hm it will be at full potential.....not garbage offer

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11-17-2013, 05:14 PM
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The Brouwer deal is the only one worth doing.

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11-18-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Remove Briere and the remains have been more or less agreed upon by both fan bases at times.

While not a garbage offer (since when does Gionta have negative value???), the Sabres would most likely be able to get a slightly better offer elsewhere. Myers is too young to let go at this point, anyway.
Removing Briere is nessesary, because as someone correctly mentioned, he was a Philadelphia buy out so he cant be traded there again. Although i think that Beaulieu + 1st is a decent offer for Simmonds i have to notice that there must be some kind of salary going the other way. Desharnais, maybe? or am i too optimistic?

As for Myers, he isn't respected in the Buffalo fan base and many wanted him to go last year, along with his lucrative contract. Quite amazed about why my garbage offer isn't good enough, especially since we are talking about the worst team in the league, in which he has 5pts in 22 games and is already -10 (only behind Weber -12). I would say quite an overpayment Montreal wise...Even the rookies Pysyk and Ristolainen are playing better...

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11-18-2013, 10:46 AM
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Yes it is a garbage offer...why does Buffalo get back a UFA?

If buffalo is trading hm it will be at full potential.....not garbage offer
I would like to see that full potential especially considering his stats
2013: 22G (1G+4A=5pts) -10
2012: 39G (3G+5A=8pts) -8
2011: 55G (8G+15A=23pts) +5
He seems to be on the downhill, albeit his young age and great expectations. He is already producing AHL numbers for 5,5M. And before you comment that if he is so bad why do i think he is a fit in Montreal i will apply my belief that Markov can save his career the way he did with Komisarek.

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11-18-2013, 11:00 AM
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Spoken like someone who obviously hasn't watched Myers recently. He's been getting better and better this season, even showing flashes of the dominance he did his rookie year.
Come on be realistic here...Pysyk and Ristolainen are plaing far better and are making less, less....less money...

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11-18-2013, 11:06 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Montreal should not be trying to contend at all quick fixes worked so well last time with McDonaugh didn't it? Let the guys develop
You are right and the Gomez-McDonaugh trade should teach every modern GM not to give away young prospect for veterans that might or might not work and are never truly engaged with the team. The trade proposals i suggested are giving up some youth for more experienced youth, something like filling holes and accelerating the maturation prossess. All Myers, Simmonds and Brouwer are relatively young and can be considered as cornerstones for our team in the future...

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11-18-2013, 12:56 PM
  #25
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I would like to see that full potential especially considering his stats
2013: 22G (1G+4A=5pts) -10
2012: 39G (3G+5A=8pts) -8
2011: 55G (8G+15A=23pts) +5
He seems to be on the downhill, albeit his young age and great expectations. He is already producing AHL numbers for 5,5M. And before you comment that if he is so bad why do i think he is a fit in Montreal i will apply my belief that Markov can save his career the way he did with Komisarek.
+/- rating is 95% of the time an awful statistic.....

If you are on a really good team all the numbers on the team tend to skew up, if you are a on a poorer team they skew down. If the Dman is mostly assigned to the #1 line, there numbers are likely going to skew upwards. If you are a defensive first Dman who generally plays against the teams top line your numbers are going to skew downward.

The only time it might mean something is if you are on a poor team record wise but the player has a really higher number relative to the rest of the team.

He is still only 23....

if you actually have watched his games he has actually improved considerably.

his first two years he was very good.

year 3---he had a significant injury missing around 20 games because of it. He also lostsome points losing some PP time given the Ehrhoff signing.

year 4--he had an injury in europr, was no where near 100% to start the season and it showed. When he got healthier he was playing grreat before a second injury ended his season.

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