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[ANA/TOR] Staubitz + P.Holland for J.Blacker, 3rd and 7th 2014 Draft Pick

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Old
11-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #276
A1LeafNation
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Holland = Colborne 2.0, only Holland shoots better.

Great fill in who can be sent down when everyone is back. Perfect trade for the Leafs.

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11-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Another Garbage trade between Anaheim and Toronto. The Anaheim GM is so stupid, he keeps getting owned in every trade by Toronto

- Beauchemin- Huge Overpayment
- Giguere - For Nothing
- Now Holland For Nothing

Please get us a new GM who doesn't give our assets away for absolutely nothing.

Holland could have returned a late first if traded to Edmonton.

Stop making terrible trades with Toronto. Thanks.
What a stupid post.

Anaheim traded an often injured, and struggling Lupul (who has stayed very injury prone) and a good prospect in Gardiner for Beauchemin. Beauchemin has been our best defensemen since. Lupul has played better, but continues to consistently be an injured player. Gardiner had a good rookie year and has been solid at best sense. Nothing wrong with that trade.

Holland has shown that he cant stick, even when given tremendous opportunity.

The oilers management is completely ********, but they wouldn't do that.

Holland wasn't going to be anything here. He's squandered too many chances and Rakell has outperformed him every camp and preseason since being drafted. The ducks gave him consistent shots and he didn't take advantage.

That said, I'm not a big fan of the trade as I don't think we needed to move him right now. I was hoping he could be packaged for a better player. We gain some picks we moved though, so nothing big.

To say he could have gotten us a 1st is laughable though.

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11-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by dwanmaster View Post
I could see Holland getting 60 pts this year with Kessel and JVR
yeah me too. 60 points in the next 62 games seems pretty realistic

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11-16-2013, 01:49 PM
  #279
Vipers31
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Originally Posted by Nazem Gretzky View Post
lol, that's not nearly enough. Is this post a joke?

There are so many examples of where a player needed more time to cut their teeth in the NHL.

Nazem Kadri is a great example.
He wasn't saying he won't make it. He was saying that Holland has had opportunities in Anaheim, which he did, and which someone else questioned. That's not unfair. He still is young and can still make it.

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11-16-2013, 01:49 PM
  #280
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What I don't get, and maybe someone could help me understand, is why people are saying he just fell down the depth chart and wasn't progressing like they wanted. He's 22 years old, played lights out at every level, and is a star scorer PPG player in the AHL that has size.... That's not very common... Especially the 22 years old thing. Okay, I get that when given the opportunity he hasn't shown much at the NHL level but he's 22 and you look at the other stuff I mentioned. That doesn't seem like a guy you would want to give up on that fast...

Some players are NHL ready sooner than others. I get that other prospects like Rakkell had a more NHL ready game and suited the Ducks style more but to say a kid that does what Holland does is tumbling down the depth chart is ridiculous IMO. He's played 29 games in the NHL.

Speaking from experience, It sounds a lot like the situation Nazem Kadri was in. Lit it up at every level including the AHL. Just was often invisible in the NHL and didn't contribute much. He was also 22 and played about the same number of games putting the same number of points in about the same role Holland had. Then people started calling him a bust, that he would never translate his game to the NHL. That we'd be lucky to get Holland or MPS or even a late first or second rounder for him. Then last year he came in and figured it out and we got top six minutes and power play time and it seemed, and had a breakout year.

The point is, we've gone through this with Kadri. This could be really good for us.

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11-16-2013, 01:49 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
yeah me too. 60 points in the next 62 games seems pretty realistic
Not a ppg, bust.

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11-16-2013, 01:49 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
yeah me too. 60 points in the next 62 games seems pretty realistic
Oh for sure

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11-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Enhanced View Post
Aren't people tired of making these same jokes? So overdone.
meh just ignore them dude.... just got a very good prospect for a 2nd (if he sticks which would be better) and a guy who will never make our team... seems like a good deal to me. Talking to a lot of anaheim fans they liked the beauchemin trade (it just looks bad now but beauchemin is still a good dman) but this could be an absolute fleecing imo, wanted holland for a while. difference between him and colborne is that he put up numbers in the AHL without being on a stacked marlies team like colborne... ill take holland anyday over him, that being said i still think colborne could be a decent Centerman.

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11-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Mama Shinkaruk View Post
Holland just became a top prospect while Blacker just became a nobody.
Top prospect? Holland's name's already in Sochi discussions

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11-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Nazem Gretzky View Post
lol, that's not nearly enough. Is this post a joke?

There are so many examples of where a player needed more time to cut their teeth in the NHL.

Nazem Kadri is a great example.
It's not like holland has looked even ok in his nhl time here, his play didn't even warrant 4th line minutes. As a 22 year old you would expect to see SOME growth Imhis game at this level, he is too slow, always a step behind the play and his play in the defensive zone is VERY weak. He very well can turn out to be a decent 2nd line center, but to expect a young Jeff carter is putting way too much on his shoulders. It will be tough for holland to be a permanent player on the Toronto roster, as he can only slot in as a top 6 center. Bottom six duty doesn't suit him and he has proven his play on the wing is laughable.
Honestly I would love to see him succeed and become the player I was excited about at the draft but I just don't see it.

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11-16-2013, 01:52 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Random Bruins Fan View Post
. . . and so it begins
Dude look at it this way..




Holland.... Holly Land..... Holy Land .... Stanley Cup



I am not one to say it is fate but.... Aliens.

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11-16-2013, 01:52 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Another Garbage trade between Anaheim and Toronto. The Anaheim GM is so stupid, he keeps getting owned in every trade by Toronto

- Beauchemin- Huge Overpayment
- Giguere - For Nothing
- Now Holland For Nothing

Please get us a new GM who doesn't give our assets away for absolutely nothing.

Holland could have returned a late first if traded to Edmonton.

Stop making terrible trades with Toronto. Thanks.
Sorry but that is not true at all.

1. Beauchemin has been and is gold for the Ducks. And his contract is just lovely for a guy like him. We had to include Lupul because of the cap and because he just didnt work out here. Leafs then got Gardiner because they needed value coming back. He was only traded because that ****** Schultz guaranteed he would sign with the Ducks. Had we known that he would bolt, we would have shipped him off and not Gardiner.

2. Giguere trade was necessary because we decided Hiller would be the guy going forward and we needed to clear cap space. Obviously we had to take Blake back so it would work for Toronto. Overall Id say the deal was fair on both sides. Blake was a good energy guy and Jiggy gave the Leafs some veteran presence in goal.

3. Too early to tell. Yu dont know the market for Holland. Ducks clear a roster spot with Staubitz, get some help for the struggling Norfolk team and get 2 pickson top of that. One of which could turn into a 2nd rounder. That helps the Ducks long term with their cap. Holland is up for a new deal next summer, whomever we draft will be cost controlled for years to come.

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11-16-2013, 01:54 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Another Garbage trade between Anaheim and Toronto. The Anaheim GM is so stupid, he keeps getting owned in every trade by Toronto

- Beauchemin- Huge Overpayment
- Giguere - For Nothing
- Now Holland For Nothing

Please get us a new GM who doesn't give our assets away for absolutely nothing.

Holland could have returned a late first if traded to Edmonton.

Stop making terrible trades with Toronto. Thanks.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a LATE first from Edmonton...only perennial top-5 picks.

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11-16-2013, 01:57 PM
  #289
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We'll see how it goes, I am okay with this if it halts the slide for the Leafs.

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11-16-2013, 01:57 PM
  #290
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I think the biggest issue is that he would be waiver eligible next year. I believe that was the kicker. Too much depth in front of him.

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11-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Some players are NHL ready sooner than others. I get that other prospects like Rakkell had a more NHL ready game and suited the Ducks style more but to say a kid that does what Holland does is tumbling down the depth chart is ridiculous IMO. He's played 29 games in the NHL.
I don't see what's ridiculous about it. Holland is a good prospect, but we have a bunch of those. Holland wasn't able to run with one of the spots that were his to grab. Others came in and did. Before, Holland wasn't able to stick in the NHL, and at this point, he couldn't get there before others. That's precisely what falling in the organisational depth chart is. It's not saying he will never amount to anything. He might well. But he hasn't been earning chances over a bunch of the other kids in our organisation, so the writing for this was very much on the wall.

I don't think the Kadri-comparisions make a ton of sense. Holland was always a project from draft day. His junior numbers suggest his raw talent, but they aren't out of the world. There were always questions as to whether he'd make it to the big league and be effective there. He wasn't a virtual can't miss guy who's development got derailed. He's developing okay given his AHL-play, but you just don't know whether he'll be able to be that player at the NHL with the few split seconds less, players around him being quicker and stronger, etc... Again: not questioning his upside. It's obviously there. The Ducks felt he wasn't going to be able to do it with them, and the organisational depth chart certainly was a very real part of that.

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11-16-2013, 02:01 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Holland could have returned a late first if traded to Edmonton.
Reality disagrees with your weird opinion. Just for the record.

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11-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #293
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I think the biggest issue is that he would be waiver eligible next year. I believe that was the kicker. Too much depth in front of him.
This, along with the growth of our center depth this year. If we didn't already have 5 strong NHL centers along with the prospects coming over next year to replace him he would have been kept.

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11-16-2013, 02:03 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Holland = Colborne 2.0, only Holland shoots better.

Great fill in who can be sent down when everyone is back. Perfect trade for the Leafs.
Colborne never put up points in the AHL like Holland.

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11-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
yeah me too. 60 points in the next 62 games seems pretty realistic
You heard it here first!

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11-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I don't see what's ridiculous about it. Holland is a good prospect, but we have a bunch of those. Holland wasn't able to run with one of the spots that were his to grab. Others came in and did. Before, Holland wasn't able to stick in the NHL, and at this point, he couldn't get there before others. That's precisely what falling in the organisational depth chart is. It's not saying he will never amount to anything. He might well. But he hasn't been earning chances over a bunch of the other kids in our organisation, so the writing for this was very much on the wall.

I don't think the Kadri-comparisions make a ton of sense. Holland was always a project from draft day. His junior numbers suggest his raw talent, but they aren't out of the world. There were always questions as to whether he'd make it to the big league and be effective there. He wasn't a virtual can't miss guy who's development got derailed. He's developing okay given his AHL-play, but you just don't know whether he'll be able to be that player at the NHL with the few split seconds less, players around him being quicker and stronger, etc... Again: not questioning his upside. It's obviously there. The Ducks felt he wasn't going to be able to do it with them, and the organisational depth chart certainly was a very real part of that.
The way I look at it is that Holland has shown to have great upside. Probably has more upside than most of the players you guys have ahead of him. The problem was that he didn't show anything in the NHL. Okay, so he's 22 and despite given a decent opportunity, he couldn't deliver. But the thing is he's 22 and still has all of that upside. Is it not possible he just needs more time? Or maybe a bigger more offensive role like Kadri needed? I guess we'll find out.

Also the Ducks don't really need a top 6 offensive centre anymore so maybe that was a huge factor. And they have players that fit better as a bottom sixer.

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11-16-2013, 02:06 PM
  #297
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First thing I thought while I was watching Toronto the other day was, "boy, they could really use a guy like Staubitz in this game."

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11-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #298
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Happy with Toronto's roll of the dice. Blackers development has really stagnated these past few years. Sounds like two players in similar positions. Leafs are certainly center starved but relatively stocked w d prospects. Could be small win win..

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11-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Random Bruins Fan View Post
So if I hadn't heard of him do you think that supports your argument that he is a young Jeff Carter?
Who cares...if he can win a friggin' face off and possibly make a pass or 2, then he is better than the centers we have now. Blacker was never going to make the Leafs, so we improved in an area of need (center) by giving up an area of abundance (defense).

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11-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #300
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The way some people are talking about Holland in this thread...

I guess one mans trash really is another mans treasure.

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