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[ANA/TOR] Staubitz + P.Holland for J.Blacker, 3rd and 7th 2014 Draft Pick

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Old
11-17-2013, 06:43 PM
  #451
Bernier the Boats
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Talent.

Getzlaf and Koivu were both out and Holland didn't even dress. Holland had his chance, and he didn't impress, see comments by Boudreau and Murray.
If you had to pick one league where Holland will play out the rest of his career, what league would that be?

Based on your talent evaluation expertise and whatnot.

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11-17-2013, 06:44 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Talent.

Getzlaf and Koivu were both out and Holland didn't even dress. Holland had his chance, and he didn't impress, see comments by Boudreau and Murray.
So you're saying that JS Giguere didn't/doesn't have talent because he didn't impress and was dumped by the Whalers and the Flames?

Sometimes a guy just needs a change of scenery/new system.

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11-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Bobby Smash View Post
So you're saying that JS Giguere didn't/doesn't have talent because he didn't impress and was dumped by the Whalers and the Flames?

Sometimes a guy just needs a change of scenery/new system.
That's not what I said.

I've seen all 30 games Holland has played in the NHL, and he was pretty useless.

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Originally Posted by Bernier the Boats View Post
If you had to pick one league where Holland will play out the rest of his career, what league would that be?

Based on your talent evaluation expertise and whatnot.
4th line center in the NHL or 1st line center in the AHL.

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11-17-2013, 07:04 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
That's not what I said.

I've seen all 30 games Holland has played in the NHL, and he was pretty useless.



4th line center in the NHL or 1st line center in the AHL.
Did you see his first Leafs game? He wasn't very useless there.

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Old
11-17-2013, 07:12 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
That's not what I said.

I've seen all 30 games Holland has played in the NHL, and he was pretty useless.



4th line center in the NHL or 1st line center in the AHL.
man you are putting way too much effort ripping into holland.

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11-17-2013, 07:12 PM
  #456
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Did you see his first Leafs game? He wasn't very useless there.
Adrenaline can do alot for a player. Let's wait a bit eh.

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11-17-2013, 07:16 PM
  #457
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Adrenaline can do alot for a player. Let's wait a bit eh.
Well, just proving that he hasn't sucked every game like he said I think he'll make the most of the opportunity and prove very valuable in the AHL while he waits for another trade/injury to open up his spot (maybe he can play some wing at some point too?)

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11-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Learn to evaluate talent.
Yeah, I'll side with the NHL scouting staffs on this one.

He has never contributed in an NHL game!

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11-17-2013, 07:23 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
That's not what I said.

I've seen all 30 games Holland has played in the NHL, and he was pretty useless.
Well, that's a rarity. Usually prospects are big contributors in their first 30 games.

Hey guys, look how useless Holland is here:

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Old
11-17-2013, 08:25 PM
  #460
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Yeah, I'll side with the NHL scouting staffs on this one.

He has never contributed in an NHL game!
You do that. You'd think a team would have paid more for a good prospect like Holland, eh? I mean, afterall he's a 22 year old center, former 1st round pick, PPG player in the AHL, and on his way to contributing in the NHL. Right? Scouts must be really high on him, just look at the return we got.

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11-17-2013, 08:27 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Well, that's a rarity. Usually prospects are big contributors in their first 30 games.

Hey guys, look how useless Holland is here:
Video isn't working for me, but I wanted to congratulate you, you found a highlight of Holland. I could do the same for hundreds of players who suck.

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Old
11-17-2013, 08:32 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
You do that. You'd think a team would have paid more for a good prospect like Holland, eh? I mean, afterall he's a 22 year old center, former 1st round pick, PPG player in the AHL, and on his way to contributing in the NHL. Right? Scouts must be really high on him, just look at the return we got.
Holy straw man.

Why would we have to do better? Teams don't normally give up two picks, a prospect, and take on a salary dump for 'career AHL-ers'. This is a pretty appropriate return for a high-end, boom-bust prospect that has shown some ability at the NHL level. He's 22. Clearly, Toronto saw something in him considering what they gave up.

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11-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Video isn't working for me, but I wanted to congratulate you, you found a highlight of Holland. I could do the same for hundreds of players who suck.
You said that he was useless in every game that he played with us. I can find more examples for you if you'd like.

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11-17-2013, 08:48 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Holy straw man.

Why would we have to do better? Teams don't normally give up two picks, a prospect, and take on a salary dump for 'career AHL-ers'. This is a pretty appropriate return for a high-end, boom-bust prospect that has shown some ability at the NHL level. He's 22. Clearly, Toronto saw something in him considering what they gave up.
3rd, 7th, prospect who had been a healthy scratch in the AHL, and a salary dump (MLSE doesn't care about 500k). That's a ****** return for 22 year old who is suppose to be a top 6 center.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You said that he was useless in every game that he played with us. I can find more examples for you if you'd like.
You know what I meant. Holland had so many opportunities to stick with the big club, and he didn't perform. And not just on the stat sheet.

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11-17-2013, 09:03 PM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
You do that. You'd think a team would have paid more for a good prospect like Holland, eh? I mean, afterall he's a 22 year old center, former 1st round pick, PPG player in the AHL, and on his way to contributing in the NHL. Right? Scouts must be really high on him, just look at the return we got.

Whats your logic? You probably think Yakupov is worth the 1st overall pick in the draft.

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Old
11-17-2013, 09:10 PM
  #466
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Whats your logic? You probably think Yakupov is worth the 1st overall pick in the draft.
I don't.

I'd like to think a team would pay more for a potential top 6 center some people seem to think he is.

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Old
11-17-2013, 09:17 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
4th line center in the NHL or 1st line center in the AHL.
Maybe.

But he's projected to be much more than that at least. And for that POTENTIAL, Toronto sent away an average D prospect who was really falling down their depth chart, a decent pick and a crap pick.

Good move for the Leafs AND Ducks, IMO. They both got something out of the deal.

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11-17-2013, 09:27 PM
  #468
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Maybe.

But he's projected to be much more than that at least. And for that POTENTIAL, Toronto sent away an average D prospect who was really falling down their depth chart, a decent pick and a crap pick.

Good move for the Leafs AND Ducks, IMO. They both got something out of the deal.
I've never scrutinized the move by either parties. Simply giving my opinion based on his play in Anaheim.

I'm rooting for Holland, and I hope he succeeds, but I don't think it will happen.

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11-17-2013, 09:57 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
3rd, 7th, prospect who had been a healthy scratch in the AHL, and a salary dump (MLSE doesn't care about 500k). That's a ****** return for 22 year old who is suppose to be a top 6 center.
He's a 22 year old that's PROJECTED to be a 2nd line center. Meaning that it's something that's expected with time.

Quote:
You know what I meant. Holland had so many opportunities to stick with the big club, and he didn't perform. And not just on the stat sheet.
He's had two realistic opportunities to stick with the club. Last season with the injuries and at camp this year. That it didn't miraculously all happen in that six month time span is hardly enough for the melodramatic proclamations that you're making.

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11-17-2013, 10:07 PM
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
I mean, afterall he's a 22 year old center, former 1st round pick, PPG player in the AHL, and on his way to contributing in the NHL. Right?
Sounds like Nazem Kadri.

Who knows

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Old
11-17-2013, 10:31 PM
  #471
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Sounds like Nazem Kadri.

Who knows
Exactly. The fact is, within the Ducks organization, the same could have been said about a lot of their players at the same age. From our current roster: Penner, Perrault, Bonino, Maroon, Beauchemin, Lovejoy, Hiller, and Fasth. There were several players from our cup winning team that were in the same boat at 22, too.

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11-17-2013, 10:58 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
Sounds like Nazem Kadri.

Who knows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Exactly. The fact is, within the Ducks organization, the same could have been said about a lot of their players at the same age. From our current roster: Penner, Perrault, Bonino, Maroon, Beauchemin, Lovejoy, Hiller, and Fasth. There were several players from our cup winning team that were in the same boat at 22, too.
It has absolutely nothing to do with his performance at age 22. My statements are based on what I'm seen from him.

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11-17-2013, 11:25 PM
  #473
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Pretty much. Maybe a 4th line center on a ****** team.
That much I understand, but would you also call him useless?

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Old
11-18-2013, 08:53 AM
  #474
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The value received for Holland was probably fair, but I wish BM had targeted one of the Leafs many defensive blueline prospects. Petter Granberg would round out our prospect pool nicely (big shutdown righty with top four potential + Swedish ). I think Holland for Granberg+4th would have been a fair trade for both sides.

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11-18-2013, 09:58 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
The value received for Holland was probably fair, but I wish BM had targeted one of the Leafs many defensive blueline prospects. Petter Granberg would round out our prospect pool nicely (big shutdown righty with top four potential + Swedish ). I think Holland for Granberg+4th would have been a fair trade for both sides.
you did get a defensive prospect

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