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Old
11-19-2013, 04:24 AM
  #1
RingsOfS4turn
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Col-Buf

To Buffalo: Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau
3rd Round pick 2014

To Colorado: Christian Ehrnhoff


Thoughts? Anything that should be added/taken away?

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Old
11-19-2013, 04:46 AM
  #2
TorontoTrades
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Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff

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Old
11-19-2013, 04:49 AM
  #3
DatsyukOwns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
Agree with this. I don't think the Avs should give up Parenteau either.

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Old
11-19-2013, 04:52 AM
  #4
VanillaCoke
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If I'm rebuilding BUF selling off assets I'm looking for A prospects and picks.

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Old
11-19-2013, 05:38 AM
  #5
Colorado Avalanche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
Parenteau >>>> 1st round pick

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Old
11-19-2013, 06:46 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Parenteau >>>> 1st round pick
Not to a rebuilding team,no.

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:08 AM
  #7
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
If they want a 1st, then it's a deal. But I'm pretty sure the fans don't want to risk a recapture penalty. I'm just hoping management disagrees and moves him to Colorado.

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:13 AM
  #8
Jim Bob
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Ehrhoff is untradeable due to the recapture risk unless a team severely overpays for him.

This deal would not reach that level.

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:18 AM
  #9
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This trade makes no sense for Buffalo and Erhoff is worth more than that. Buffalo is trying to get younger and cheaper not weaker.
And the third round pick is laughable. I'm sure this is a Colorado fan proposal because truly Buff hangs up the phone. News Flash PA may produce numbers but really that's all. His game isn't well rounded and he can barely skate. You need to offer more for a PP QB and number1 defenseman. If I were to deal ERHOFF than I would ask for LAndeskog. Even Statsny makes more sense. PAP will be UFA in a few years I why does he stay with a rebuilding team?
Awful proposal.

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:20 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Parenteau >>>> 1st round pick
AS is Erhoff

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:43 AM
  #11
JoemAvs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
This trade makes no sense for Buffalo and Erhoff is worth more than that. Buffalo is trying to get younger and cheaper not weaker.
And the third round pick is laughable. I'm sure this is a Colorado fan proposal because truly Buff hangs up the phone. News Flash PA may produce numbers but really that's all. His
game isn't well rounded and he can barely skate. You need to offer more for a PP QB and number1
defenseman. If I were to deal
ERHOFF than I would ask for
LAndeskog. Even Statsny makes
more sense. PAP will be UFA in a
few years I why does he stay with
a rebuilding team?

Awful proposal.
Landeskog ? Really ?
Wow !

The Avs would be foolish to give up more than a 1st + maybe Wilson for Ehrhoff.

And please as an expert on his value , you might do me the favour and spell his name correctly.

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Old
11-19-2013, 07:48 AM
  #12
a mangy Meowth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
This trade makes no sense for Buffalo and Erhoff is worth more than that. Buffalo is trying to get younger and cheaper not weaker.
And the third round pick is laughable. I'm sure this is a Colorado fan proposal because truly Buff hangs up the phone. News Flash PA may produce numbers but really that's all. His game isn't well rounded and he can barely skate. You need to offer more for a PP QB and number1 defenseman. If I were to deal ERHOFF than I would ask for LAndeskog. Even Statsny makes more sense. PAP will be UFA in a few years I why does he stay with a rebuilding team?
Awful proposal.

Landeskog is worth more than any package Buffalo could put together, so we don't need to go there.


Also, Parenteau is far more than what you've alluded to here, but it's obvious you don't watch any Avalanche games, so it's to be expected.

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Old
11-19-2013, 08:10 AM
  #13
TehDoak
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Again, because of the cap recapture, Buffalo isn't going to trade Ehrhoff unless he specifically comes to them and asks for a trade.

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Old
11-19-2013, 08:20 AM
  #14
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Hell no.

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Old
11-19-2013, 08:23 AM
  #15
AslanRH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
If they want a 1st, then it's a deal. But I'm pretty sure the fans don't want to risk a recapture penalty. I'm just hoping management disagrees and moves him to Colorado.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsJimBob View Post
Ehrhoff is untradeable due to the recapture risk unless a team severely overpays for him.

This deal would not reach that level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Again, because of the cap recapture, Buffalo isn't going to trade Ehrhoff unless he specifically comes to them and asks for a trade.
Agree, but wonder how A conditonal pick might work come those $1m years.
If Ehrhoff retires
before the 2018-2019 season the Avs give up 2019 1st, or
if before the 19-20 season a 2020 3rd
if before the 20-21 season 2021 5th
or Ehrhoff could be returned to Buffalo in lieu of the pick.

probably not even possible, but would give Buffalo some protection/return on the risk

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Old
11-19-2013, 08:26 AM
  #16
Freudian
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There could probably be a gentleman's agreement to trade Ehrhoff back to Buffalo for a symbolic return once he decides to retire and they could buy him out. The player would benefit and Buffalo would benefit. It wouldn't affect Colorado one bit.

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Old
11-19-2013, 08:40 AM
  #17
tsujimoto74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
Buffalo won't trade Ehrhoff. If they do, it will definitely be for more than a pick. Hoff is worth way more than that: great #2 d-man, signed long term, cheap cap wise and cheap in actual dollars. Guy is our best defenseman on most nights and one of few veterans we have to help the kids along. Plus, the whole recapture thing makes him more or less untradable from a Sabres POV.

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Old
11-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #18
GamingGiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
This trade makes no sense for Buffalo and Erhoff is worth more than that. Buffalo is trying to get younger and cheaper not weaker.
And the third round pick is laughable. I'm sure this is a Colorado fan proposal because truly Buff hangs up the phone. News Flash PA may produce numbers but really that's all. His game isn't well rounded and he can barely skate. You need to offer more for a PP QB and number1 defenseman. If I were to deal ERHOFF than I would ask for LAndeskog. Even Statsny makes more sense. PAP will be UFA in a few years I why does he stay with a rebuilding team?
Awful proposal.
Good luck with that

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Old
11-19-2013, 09:24 AM
  #19
Sabretooth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
There could probably be a gentleman's agreement to trade Ehrhoff back to Buffalo for a symbolic return once he decides to retire and they could buy him out. The player would benefit and Buffalo would benefit. It wouldn't affect Colorado one bit.
Trading ehrhoff back to buffalo for a buyout does nothing to affect the recapture. The recapture comes from the fact that for the first 2 years of the contract, ehrhoff was paid a total of 10million more than his cap hit. Effectively, it means buffalo was able to operate over the salary cap during those 2 years. That is why recapture exists if the contract is not fulfilled - to prevent exploitation. Teams could front load contracts and then move them before the years where the salary drops below the cap hit. Over the last 4 years of ehrhoff's contract, he will be payed a total of 10 million less than his cap hit, so it evens out if he plays out his entire contract in Buffalo, and there is no cap recapture. If he stays in Buffalo and retires with 1 year left on his contract, the recapture penalty drops to 3 million because 7 million will have been credited back by then due to ehrhoff getting paid 7 million less than his cap hit for 3 years. Buffalo doesn't get any credit back towards the cap recapture if ehrhoff plays for a different team during the years his salary is less than his cap hit. So if Ehrhoff is traded now and then wants to retire with 1 year left on his contract, trading him back to Buffalo then for a buyout does nothing for the cap recapture.

The only 3 options for eliminating the cap recapture entirely:

1) ehrhoff plays out his contract IN BUFFALO. (recapture reduction to 0 over final 4 years of contract)
2) ehrhoff is traded and plays out his entire contract. (recapture remains 10 million until contract is fulfilled - buffalo responsible for 10 million over remaining contract years if contract not fulfilled)
3) compliance buyout (not regular buyout) after this season.

If ehrhoff is traded now, there is no scenario for which buffalo would avoid the 10million recapture penalty if ehrhoff retires before the end of his contract.

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Old
11-19-2013, 09:44 AM
  #20
Djp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingsOfS4turn View Post
To Buffalo: Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau
3rd Round pick 2014

To Colorado: Christian Ehrnhoff


Thoughts? Anything that should be added/taken away?
Buffalo has little interest in this. There is an issue that Buffalo needs certainty that a new team buys out Ehrhoff out with 3 yrs left on his contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
Buffalo would get more than just a 1st for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
If I'm rebuilding BUF selling off assets I'm looking for A prospects and picks.
Buffalo would also be looking for younger players who are in that 22-25 yr old range.

Problem is Colorado doesnt have anything buffalo would want. The young players/prospects they would are effectively untouchable.

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Old
11-19-2013, 09:52 AM
  #21
Djp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Agree, but wonder how A conditonal pick might work come those $1m years.
If Ehrhoff retires
before the 2018-2019 season the Avs give up 2019 1st, or
if before the 19-20 season a 2020 3rd
if before the 20-21 season 2021 5th
or Ehrhoff could be returned to Buffalo in lieu of the pick.

probably not even possible, but would give Buffalo some protection/return on the risk
the conditional 1st to Buffalo would come if they didnt buy him out after the 2018.

trading him back to Buffalo doesnt change anything because buffalo loses the reduction of the front loaded contract.

They front loaded the contract by paying him $10M extra up front that they need to recapture.

If he plays out the contract he gradually reduces that when salary years< cap years.

right now its $10M to repay
after 2018 its $9M to repay, after 2019 its $6M, after 2020 its $3M

If he is traded before then they dont get that reduction

so Buffalo needs to recapture that $10M. It would be divided over the numbers years left on the contract if he was bought out or retires. It does not matter if its by his new team or Buffalo if he got traded....its still....

$10M/ # of yrs left= per yr cap hit.

This will be a problem with 1 or 2 yrs left where the cap hit would be $5M for 2 yrs or $10M in one yr (OUCH !!!)

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Old
11-19-2013, 09:57 AM
  #22
Djp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
The only 3 options for eliminating the cap recapture entirely:

1) ehrhoff plays out his contract IN BUFFALO. (recapture reduction to 0 over final 4 years of contract)
2) ehrhoff is traded and plays out his entire contract. (recapture remains 10 million until contract is fulfilled - buffalo responsible for 10 million over remaining contract years if contract not fulfilled)
3) compliance buyout (not regular buyout) after this season.

If ehrhoff is traded now, there is no scenario for which buffalo would avoid the 10million recapture penalty if ehrhoff retires before the end of his contract.
to add....

If he was traded ----Buffalo needs to force the new team to buy him , or he retires, out in summer 2016, summer 2017 or summer 2018 which then makes the recapture more manageable from Buffalo's perspective.

In 2016 its $2M per year for 5 yrs
In 2017 its $2.5M per year for 4 yrs
In 2018 its $3.33M per year for 3 yrs.

If he was boughtout or retired

in 2019 thats $5M each yr for 2 yrs
In 2020 thats $10M for 1 yr.


Last edited by Djp: 11-19-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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Old
11-19-2013, 10:18 AM
  #23
Jim Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Agree, but wonder how A conditonal pick might work come those $1m years.
If Ehrhoff retires
before the 2018-2019 season the Avs give up 2019 1st, or
if before the 19-20 season a 2020 3rd
if before the 20-21 season 2021 5th
or Ehrhoff could be returned to Buffalo in lieu of the pick.

probably not even possible, but would give Buffalo some protection/return on the risk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
There could probably be a gentleman's agreement to trade Ehrhoff back to Buffalo for a symbolic return once he decides to retire and they could buy him out. The player would benefit and Buffalo would benefit. It wouldn't affect Colorado one bit.
I'm guessing the NHL would nix both of those as cap circumvention.

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Old
11-19-2013, 10:24 AM
  #24
Insomniac99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Think Buffalo would rather just get a 1st for Erhoff
With Ehrhoff's amazing cap hit and being locked up long term, there is no way only a 1st would do it.

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Old
11-19-2013, 10:58 AM
  #25
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What if Ott gets added to the mix?

1st, Tyson Barrie, and Ryan Wilson

for

Ehrhoff and Ott

Better or worse? A lot of Avs fans don't want to give up Barrie. I'm more willing then most if someone like Ehrhoff is coming back.

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