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Reasons to still be optimistic for the season

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Old
11-18-2013, 12:17 AM
  #76
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People were laughing at the Calgary deal with Wideman because it was an overpayment, but I think he'd have helped this team a bit... as well as an Ehrhoff type, or a guy like Wisniewski. That '11 free agency class had a few pretty good d-men available, and Detroit had a ton of money freed up as a result of Rafalski retiring. Sure, none of them would have replaced Rafalski or Lidstrom completely, but they'd sure help Detroit a bit more than Ian White did. Seriously, while I was in favor of the White signing when it happened, I was in favor because it meant Detroit had the cap availability to also add another big piece through trade/free agency.

The positive, though, on the lack of defensive signings is that Detroit really wouldn't have had room for Smith, Kindl, and Dekeyser to all show their strengths. You guys think Cleary is bad right now? Imagine a world where you've got Quincey playing over one of Dekeyser / Smith / Kindl because Detroit has one more good d-man in the lineup every single day. If that happened, we'd be calling for Babcock / Holland's head anyways.

I think Detroit's defense isn't as big of a problem as others... I think it could obviously use an upgrade, of course, but the offense is what really needs change. With that being said, if Detroit had another Lidstrom or Rafalski in the lineup, maybe it'd help the Cleary's or Samuelsson's score a bit, who knows. Maybe a big part of Detroit's offensive uselessness is the fact that the defense isn't skilled enough to help the bad forwards out.

If Detroit signs Suter, does Detroit also sign Dekeyser? The back and forth can go on and on. At the end of the day, it's definitely tough to replace Nick Lidstrom, but it's also tough to replace Nick Lidstrom if you never pull the trigger on anything that can help you replace him. It's tough to prepare for Lidstrom's retirement, but when the guy is 40 years old, you have to kind of realize that it's coming soon enough and try to find someone that can fill in and take up some of those 25 minutes a night that the guy plays... you can't just go into the next season saying it's impossible to replace him and allow that to be your excuse to have an unprepared defense. Rafalski came out of the blue, obviously. Lidstrom, however, probably could have been prepared for beforehand.

Unless, of course, the preparation to Lidstrom's retirement is acquiring Kyle Quincey.... in that case, yikes.

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11-18-2013, 05:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
It was pretty sweet until the new CBA. Old rules you'd just waive him and that's that. You know, like Franzen.
Even better was you could at least trade him for something of decent value to a team like Florida in his later years.

Recapture is one of the dumbest rules I have seen.

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11-18-2013, 06:02 AM
  #78
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Recapture is one of the dumbest rules I have seen.
Word. And no grandfather clause for deals prior to new cba. ruthless, Nhl.


Last edited by Eternal Sunshine: 11-18-2013 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Not necessary, though I agree with the sentiment
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11-18-2013, 06:04 AM
  #79
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Bright spots is Detroit is making a great transition to youth (though many here seem to not see this), have studs in the works and have Dekeyser looks like a stud defenseman the team needed.

I'm surprised Holland and Co are getting so much grief. Had Fischer not had a heart condition, he would be in his prime right now leading the charge. And Suter was almost in red and white had not Parise pulled him away. If Suter comes here, Holland doesn't trade for KFQ. And if we remember correctly, KFQ seemed to be serviceable (and somewhat decent) in both LA and Denver.

So far Weiss and Alfredsson have been subpar, Tatar to me hasn't been impressive... yeah he has spurts where he looks good, but he's a giveaway machine.... and not only that, he has played almost twice as many games as "stone hands" Helm, and has about as many points. Tatar makes the worse possible decisions with the puck which tells me why he was in the minors for so long. I doubt Nyquist is going to instantly make this team much better either.

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11-18-2013, 06:25 AM
  #80
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Bright spots is Detroit is making a great transition to youth (though many here seem to not see this), have studs in the works and have Dekeyser looks like a stud defenseman the team needed.

I'm surprised Holland and Co are getting so much grief. Had Fischer not had a heart condition, he would be in his prime right now leading the charge. And Suter was almost in red and white had not Parise pulled him away. If Suter comes here, Holland doesn't trade for KFQ. And if we remember correctly, KFQ seemed to be serviceable (and somewhat decent) in both LA and Denver.

So far Weiss and Alfredsson have been subpar, Tatar to me hasn't been impressive... yeah he has spurts where he looks good, but he's a giveaway machine.... and not only that, he has played almost twice as many games as "stone hands" Helm, and has about as many points. Tatar makes the worse possible decisions with the puck which tells me why he was in the minors for so long. I doubt Nyquist is going to instantly make this team much better either.
holland has made some magic moves but he doesn't have the ability to go back in time. he traded for quincey before suter hit free agency.

can't speak how quincey was in los angeles but he was pretty much the same in colorado as he is now.

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11-18-2013, 06:35 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
holland has made some magic moves but he doesn't have the ability to go back in time. he traded for quincey before suter hit free agency.

can't speak how quincey was in los angeles but he was pretty much the same in colorado as he is now.
That's right, he traded for KFQ when they were playing well and were in a low position for a draft pick and Holland gave up the 1st (almost a 2nd rounder) in one of the weakest drafts of the decade. Then the injury bug came and they stumbled.

I agree, Holland doesn't have the ability to go back in time to predict the future. The pick they thought they were giving up for KFQ was fine at the time. Now with hindsight, we can look back and scratch our heads and stomp our feet in disgust. I remember the general consensus on here was it was fair at the time, especially for the extra depth for a chance at a deep run.

Who knows, maybe Ian White helped make the choice as clearly management wasn't happy with him for whatever reason.

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11-18-2013, 10:34 AM
  #83
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11-18-2013, 11:06 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
People being critical of the team is what gives this board substance IMO. If you don't like the way people post on here, don't visit the site. Pretty simple.
actually youre dead wrong on this one bud. This website has become to abused by the same users in each teams forums. This is a perfect example of a new user wanting to express his opinion about why we as a fanbase should calm the ********k down and the HF Wings slappies (some who never even stepped foot in Detroit/JLA) poop all over him for it. No wonder the same people on this site post over and over again. New users have 0 luck in entertaining new thoughts.

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11-18-2013, 11:16 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Huddy View Post
actually youre dead wrong on this one bud. This website has become to abused by the same users in each teams forums. This is a perfect example of a new user wanting to express his opinion about why we as a fanbase should calm the ********k down and the HF Wings slappies (some who never even stepped foot in Detroit/JLA) poop all over him for it. No wonder the same people on this site post over and over again. New users have 0 luck in entertaining new thoughts.
I would argue that the very little roster movement from year to year gives us little to talk about. Weiss in and Flip out is probably the biggest conversation piece since bringing back Franzen + depth over Hossa.

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11-18-2013, 11:21 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Huddy View Post
actually youre dead wrong on this one bud. This website has become to abused by the same users in each teams forums. This is a perfect example of a new user wanting to express his opinion about why we as a fanbase should calm the ********k down and the HF Wings slappies (some who never even stepped foot in Detroit/JLA) poop all over him for it. No wonder the same people on this site post over and over again. New users have 0 luck in entertaining new thoughts.
Are you surprised that people disagree with points made by the OP? I don't think I've seen any threads on this board where there was 100% agreement about anything.

Props to Swayze for being optimistic about the team and this season- more power to him. I have a more cynical view of the team and its management over the last handful of years but try not to post those same views every day in each thread b/c I know how old that gets when you're scrolling through and can basically guess the content of a post before reading it.

I enjoy the differences in opinion on here even if I don't always love the presentation of said opinion. When the saving grace for the team this season to date has been the move to the weaker EC, you're not going to get 100% buy-in on being optimistic.

And while I'm not sure why attending a game would make anyone's opinion more valid, I do meet that requirement as I've hit up 2 Wings games since moving to MI, for those keeping score at home.

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11-18-2013, 11:23 AM
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11-18-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post

And while I'm not sure why attending a game would make anyone's opinion more valid, I do meet that requirement as I've hit up 2 Wings games since moving to MI, for those keeping score at home.
There's no reason attending a game makes anyone's opinion more valid. Everyone who watches the team is entitled to an opinion whether or not you have attended a game.

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11-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #89
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People were laughing at the Calgary deal with Wideman because it was an overpayment, but I think he'd have helped this team a bit... as well as an Ehrhoff type, or a guy like Wisniewski. That '11 free agency class had a few pretty good d-men available.
Some of those "overpriced UFA dmen" don't look so bad after all. Using hindsight we probably should have picked one of those guys up.

13-14

Wisniewski 16 pts in 20 gp
Carle 10 pts in 20 games played +4, #1 dman in toi for 1st place team in east

Carle has 32 pts over 68 games with the lightning .

Wisniewski is currently tied for 3 in defensive scoring league-wide.

Pretty crazy.


Last edited by Frk It: 11-18-2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Sorry for crappy format. Hate posting from my phone.
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Old
11-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #90
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There's no reason attending a game makes anyone's opinion more valid. Everyone who watches the team is entitled to an opinion whether or not you have attended a game.
Yeah, that was a little confusing. Maybe you're a better fan if you can check off the "I peed in the long metal tub/trough in the JLA men's room" box on your fan resume. Tbh, that's a box I wish I was unable to check.

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11-18-2013, 11:32 AM
  #91
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I was very behind signing Wisniewski (sp?) before free agency that year. After seeing what he got, I was not very upset we didn't acquire him, but I don't think you could argue against our team having a better blueline with him in the top 4 over Kindl/ Smith/ Quincey.

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11-18-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I was very behind signing Wisniewski (sp?) before free agency that year. After seeing what he got, I was not very upset we didn't acquire him, but I don't think you could argue against our team having a better blueline with him in the top 4 over Kindl/ Smith/ Quincey.
We need offensive contribution from our d. Dude is giving that to Columbia in spades right now. Was shocked to see him have 16 pts in 20 games and be tied with Pieterangelo and Yandle.

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11-18-2013, 11:39 AM
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We need offensive contribution from our d. Dude is giving that to Columbia in spades right now. Was shocked to see him have 16 pts in 20 games and be tied with Pieterangelo and Yandle.
Yeah, hard to argue against that. He also shoots right IIRC, which is a huge bonus. Having him and not clogging up the the last few D spots with washouts would've been my plan of action, giving our younger guys a more consistent taste of the NHL, etc. Without Wis we have much more opportunity for our younger guys, though, which I also like.

edit: was it Wis who hates Detroit? I thought there was a guy on Columbus who has ties to that area/ school who would never play for Detroit because of a college rivalry, or something. I forget that story now.

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11-18-2013, 11:43 AM
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Yeah, hard to argue against that. He also shoots right IIRC, which is a huge bonus. Having him and not clogging up the the last few D spots with washouts would've been my plan of action, giving our younger guys a more consistent taste of the NHL, etc. Without Wis we have much more opportunity for our younger guys, though, which I also like.
Not mad at it though, because like I said my post was strictly using hindsight. At the time I totally understood where they were coming from not going after him. I do think we should have added one of those guys though, and my choice would have been Ehrhoff (obviously).

But honestly Matt Carle seems like it would have been a great add. His numbers are pretty comparable to knonwall since he joined Tampa.

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11-18-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
Yeah, hard to argue against that. He also shoots right IIRC, which is a huge bonus. Having him and not clogging up the the last few D spots with washouts would've been my plan of action, giving our younger guys a more consistent taste of the NHL, etc. Without Wis we have much more opportunity for our younger guys, though, which I also like.

edit: was it Wis who hates Detroit? I thought there was a guy on Columbus who has ties to that area/ school who would never play for Detroit because of a college rivalry, or something. I forget that story now.
I think it was Wis who said something about not signing with Detroit when he became a FA. And I remember people killing C-bus for giving him that contract when it was signed but wouldn't mind seeing that kind of offense from our blueline. He's put up a nice point total since joining the Jackets.

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11-18-2013, 11:49 AM
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I think it was Wis who said something about not signing with Detroit when he became a FA. And I remember people killing C-bus for giving him that contract when it was signed but wouldn't mind seeing that kind of offense from our blueline. He's put up a nice point total since joining the Jackets.
Yeah, I thought so. Another reason that added to my understanding of why we didn't pursue him.

I think his style of play is what we are lacking from our blueline right now, though. A realized/ established RH Smith, kind of.

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11-18-2013, 11:49 AM
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I think it was Wis who said something about not signing with Detroit when he became a FA. And I remember people killing C-bus for giving him that contract when it was signed but wouldn't mind seeing that kind of offense from our blueline. He's put up a nice point total since joining the Jackets.
yeah, it was Wisniewski. I like the offense he provides, but I think his questionable play in his own zone would drive us nuts.

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11-18-2013, 11:50 AM
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wisniewski's trouble have been staying healthy and he looks like quincey defensively at times. very often, actually. but he can put up points. nice bullet from the point.

carle wasn't very good defensively last year but he's been great this year.

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11-18-2013, 11:51 AM
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There's no reason attending a game makes anyone's opinion more valid. Everyone who watches the team is entitled to an opinion whether or not you have attended a game.
Speaking from the other side of the Atlantic (but having had set foot inside the Joe ), there is no question that hockey is one of those sports that is better viewed in person than on TV. Unlike say cricket, F1 and NFL where the viewing experience is far superior on TV, actually being in the stadium at a hockey game you get a far superior sense of what is going on.

Doesn't mean there's 100% agreement amongst all who attend as to whether Howard sucks or not though.

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11-18-2013, 11:52 AM
  #100
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yeah, it was Wisniewski. I like the offense he provides, but I think his questionable play in his own zone would drive us nuts.
IIRC my biggest reservation was that he was/is injury prone. But I could be wrong. And it's hard to figure his game totals since he plays for like 3 teams a year.

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