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Dallas Stars claim Dustin Jeffrey from waivers

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Old
11-18-2013, 10:23 AM
  #301
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Shwag33 View Post
It's the internet when you post 700 times in a thread one can construe that as 'bent out of shape'.



What do you think they should have done instead and why?
You keep referencing the internet. As someone who's been "on the internet" since before the internet, I'm not sure what your point is?

Aside from that, you're clearly exaggerating.

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11-18-2013, 10:35 AM
  #302
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You do realize that Lovejoy is currently playing 19 minutes a night on one of the best teams in the league, right?

I'd take him back for free.
But him Letestu, and TK are terrible

Iced, most of our fan base does not appreciate these types of players and what they do. This team continues to frustrate the hell out of me with this decision making "process". IE HCDB's opinion.

Dags should've been waived (using a somewhat logical, front office process). Glass should've been waived using a strictly analytically process (that obviously isn't how the Pens make decisions).

DJ has had a bad year, but his 2-3 year averages are significantly superior to several players still on this team who make more than DJ. I'd rather make decisions off of this type of data instead of the handful of games he's played this year. (this is very similar to the Letestu situation).

DJ has scored slightly more 5v5 points / minute than Sutter, Adams, Vitale, and Glass have over the last 3 years. He also makes less than all of them except Vitale. He can PP, PK, play forward, or wing. Does this sound like waiver fodder to you?

It's not all scoring though, but DJ is no slouch with respect to holding his own on the 5v5 +- battle either. He's right behind Sutter in 5v5 goals for/against (around even, 50.5%). It's not like he's getting shelled out there giving up more goals than his team scores. This isn't an opinion.

Pens basically waived a Sutter clone (statistically) who makes league min. He will be the next Letestu because I think he is as good as him IMO. Pens were very near sighted with him though, and could not look past his bad start to this year (while being played with poor linemates). I hope he does well with his career in DAL.

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11-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  #303
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A whole lot of derp in this thread.

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11-18-2013, 10:43 AM
  #304
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I'm happy for DJ. He deserves ice time. He simply never fit into our mold given or top 6 + center depth.

Stars are a good looking team moving forward too.

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11-18-2013, 11:50 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
But him Letestu, and TK are terrible

Iced, most of our fan base does not appreciate these types of players and what they do. This team continues to frustrate the hell out of me with this decision making "process". IE HCDB's opinion.

Dags should've been waived (using a somewhat logical, front office process). Glass should've been waived using a strictly analytically process (that obviously isn't how the Pens make decisions).

DJ has had a bad year, but his 2-3 year averages are significantly superior to several players still on this team who make more than DJ. I'd rather make decisions off of this type of data instead of the handful of games he's played this year. (this is very similar to the Letestu situation).

DJ has scored slightly more 5v5 points / minute than Sutter, Adams, Vitale, and Glass have over the last 3 years.
He also makes less than all of them except Vitale. He can PP, PK, play forward, or wing. Does this sound like waiver fodder to you?

It's not all scoring though, but DJ is no slouch with respect to holding his own on the 5v5 +- battle either. He's right behind Sutter in 5v5 goals for/against (around even, 50.5%). It's not like he's getting shelled out there giving up more goals than his team scores. This isn't an opinion.

Pens basically waived a Sutter clone (statistically) who makes league min. He will be the next Letestu because I think he is as good as him IMO. Pens were very near sighted with him though, and could not look past his bad start to this year (while being played with poor linemates). I hope he does well with his career in DAL.
Here you are referring to '10-'11 through '12-'13?

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11-18-2013, 12:18 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Here you are referring to '10-'11 through '12-'13?
This
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

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11-18-2013, 12:24 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
That seems to be a poor way to analyse it. Jeffrey looked to be a very promising prospect prior to his season-ending knee injury in 2011. At that time, he was logging 2nd line minutes and producing almost 0.5 points per game (12 points in 25 games). Since then, he's managed to put up just 13 points in 60 NHL games and hasn't looked nearly as good as he had before.

To me, this looks less like mismanagement by the Penguins and more like a bad knee injury derailing a promising career.

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11-18-2013, 12:39 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That seems to be a poor way to analyse it. Jeffrey looked to be a very promising prospect prior to his season-ending knee injury in 2011. At that time, he was logging 2nd line minutes and producing almost 0.5 points per game (12 points in 25 games). Since then, he's managed to put up just 13 points in 60 NHL games and hasn't looked nearly as good as he had before.

To me, this looks less like mismanagement by the Penguins and more like a bad knee injury derailing a promising career.
B-6 Bingo

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11-18-2013, 12:41 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That seems to be a poor way to analyse it. Jeffrey looked to be a very promising prospect prior to his season-ending knee injury in 2011. At that time, he was logging 2nd line minutes and producing almost 0.5 points per game (12 points in 25 games). Since then, he's managed to put up just 13 points in 60 NHL games and hasn't looked nearly as good as he had before.

To me, this looks less like mismanagement by the Penguins and more like a bad knee injury derailing a promising career.
You're not wrong, here, but DJ went from middling to struggling after they started scratching him so a waiver pickup from Carolina could punch a clock ("play" would have been the wrong word) with Evgeni Malkin and James Neal. Which I said would be a problem at the time.

Nearly signed in Russia (Switzerland? Forget where) in the offseason, so it's pretty clear he didn't feel like he had much of an opportunity here, and I don't blame him, when they're making him sit in the press box or toil on the fourth line while giving primo ice-time to an obvious, dead-ender joke like Zach Boychuk.

Yeah, he wasn't the same after the knee injury. But he only got worse when they started jerking him around afterwards.

Still, the notion that he was anything other than the Penguins worst forward (excluding Connor) this season is not supported by either the eyeball test or any statistic I know of. He needed to go, both for the team and for himself. Wasn't going to happen here. Wish him nothing but the best.

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11-18-2013, 01:06 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
What radapex said. Jeffrey got time and opportunity when Sid and Geno went down in roles that he'd never get again here, and then he got injured, which only compounded the problem.

Change the timeframe to '11-'13, and Jeffrey's even less productive than Adams by that metric:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC

I don't like basing an argument on advanced stats either way, but this one doesn't look to support Jeffrey IMHO.

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11-18-2013, 01:18 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
That seems to be a poor way to analyse it. Jeffrey looked to be a very promising prospect prior to his season-ending knee injury in 2011. At that time, he was logging 2nd line minutes and producing almost 0.5 points per game (12 points in 25 games). Since then, he's managed to put up just 13 points in 60 NHL games and hasn't looked nearly as good as he had before.

To me, this looks less like mismanagement by the Penguins and more like a bad knee injury derailing a promising career.
That is equally as bad as me ignoring the 60 games after his injury. Even with all that, he is still statistically the equivalent of Sutter that make 600K and was waived so we can continue to start and play Gladams, Vitale, and Dags. He is better than all of those players IMO. Let us not forget that his line-mates have usually been the above for those 60 games. No-one has produced with those guys.

I swear you can't win with posting ANY stat with this fanbase. It is a ****ing 3 year average (almost a career for most players). It is just as bad to ignore his .5ppg years as it is to ignore his .2ppg years. I am not ignoring anything or hand-selecting any data, yet get criticized on it. I guess I should just trust all these internet opinions you guys give here and ignore the data.

Yes, it's possible that DJ is "broken" as a player due to the knee injuries. I do not buy that for a second as he was fairly productive (>PPG) during the lockout when given decent minutes in Zagreb. That does not sound like a player who cannot skate or turn anymore. I also don't forget that DJ was nearly a PPG, AHL player.

He has talent and the entire team has been playing poorly this year. It is a shame we lost him for nothing, and have a coaching staff that cannot see the value in him.

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11-18-2013, 01:25 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
That is equally as bad as me ignoring the 60 games after his injury. Even with all that, he is still statistically the equivalent of Sutter that make 600K and was waived so we can continue to start and play Gladams, Vitale, and Dags. He is better than all of those players IMO. Let us not forget that his line-mates have usually been the above for those 60 games. No-one has produced with those guys.

I swear you can't win with posting ANY stat with this fanbase. It is a ****ing 3 year average (almost a career for most players). It is just as bad to ignore his .5ppg years as it is to ignore his .2ppg years. I am not ignoring anything or hand-selecting any data, yet get criticized on it. I guess I should just trust all these internet opinions you guys give here and ignore the data.

Yes, it's possible that DJ is "broken" as a player due to the knee injuries. I do not buy that for a second as he was fairly productive (>PPG) during the lockout when given decent minutes in Zagreb. That does not sound like a player who cannot skate or turn anymore. I also don't forget that DJ was nearly a PPG, AHL player.

He has talent and the entire team has been playing poorly this year. It is a shame we lost him for nothing, and have a coaching staff that cannot see the value in him.
Current stats are far more likely to be the real stats especially when there was a major knee injury right where the divide occurs. He put up Sutter like numbers while playing a line higher 3 years ago before a bad knee injury. If tha injury doesnt occur we very well might be watching Jeffery thrive in a 3rd line center role right now but unfortunetly for him and the Pens it did happen and he is nowhere near the player he used to be statistically or by the eye test.

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11-18-2013, 01:25 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
That is equally as bad as me ignoring the 60 games after his injury. Even with all that, he is still statistically the equivalent of Sutter that make 600K and was waived so we can continue to start and play Gladams, Vitale, and Dags. He is better than all of those players IMO. Let us not forget that his line-mates have usually been the above for those 60 games. No-one has produced with those guys.

I swear you can't win with posting ANY stat with this fanbase. It is a ****ing 3 year average (almost a career for most players). It is just as bad to ignore his .5ppg years as it is to ignore his .2ppg years. I am not ignoring anything or hand-selecting any data, yet get criticized on it. I guess I should just trust all these internet opinions you guys give here and ignore the data.

Yes, it's possible that DJ is "broken" as a player due to the knee injuries. I do not buy that for a second as he was fairly productive (>PPG) during the lockout when given decent minutes in Zagreb. That does not sound like a player who cannot skate or turn anymore. I also don't forget that DJ was nearly a PPG, AHL player.

He has talent and the entire team has been playing poorly this year. It is a shame we lost him for nothing, and have a coaching staff that cannot see the value in him.
well since I know part of this is directed at me, I'm with you on DJ. =)

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11-18-2013, 01:26 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
What radapex said. Jeffrey got time and opportunity when Sid and Geno went down in roles that he'd never get again here, and then he got injured, which only compounded the problem.

Change the timeframe to '11-'13, and Jeffrey's even less productive than Adams by that metric:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC

I don't like basing an argument on advanced stats either way, but this one doesn't look to support Jeffrey IMHO.
Is he great? No. Is he the worst? No. My point was that he did not deserve to get waived as he is better than a handful of players still on the roster (at his worst). He has also shown the talent to produce at a decent level (the players still on this roster have not shown).

Also note that this has been Adams and Glass's best production year by far (mostly due to their huge increase of time with our top 6 centers). So we are comparing a best vs worst case scenario IMO.

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11-18-2013, 01:31 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Is he great? No. Is he the worst? No. My point was that he did not deserve to get waived as he is better than a handful of players still on the roster (at his worst). He has also shown the talent to produce at a decent level (the players still on this roster have not shown).

Also note that this has been Adams and Glass's best production year by far (mostly due to their huge increase of time with our top 6 centers). So we are comparing a best vs worst case scenario IMO.
Your also comparing 2 completely different roles. Jeffery is in no way shape or form a 4th liner and should not be expected to be good in that role. Glass and Adams both obviously have their faults but they are better suited for that role than Jeffery. It really is a shame the injury occured because he showed more offensive accumen pre injury than Sutter ever has.

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11-18-2013, 01:33 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
That is equally as bad as me ignoring the 60 games after his injury. Even with all that, he is still statistically the equivalent of Sutter that make 600K and was waived so we can continue to start and play Gladams, Vitale, and Dags. He is better than all of those players IMO. Let us not forget that his line-mates have usually been the above for those 60 games. No-one has produced with those guys.

I swear you can't win with posting ANY stat with this fanbase. It is a ****ing 3 year average (almost a career for most players). It is just as bad to ignore his .5ppg years as it is to ignore his .2ppg years. I am not ignoring anything or hand-selecting any data, yet get criticized on it. I guess I should just trust all these internet opinions you guys give here and ignore the data.

Yes, it's possible that DJ is "broken" as a player due to the knee injuries. I do not buy that for a second as he was fairly productive (>PPG) during the lockout when given decent minutes in Zagreb. That does not sound like a player who cannot skate or turn anymore. I also don't forget that DJ was nearly a PPG, AHL player.

He has talent and the entire team has been playing poorly this year. It is a shame we lost him for nothing, and have a coaching staff that cannot see the value in him.
That '10-'11 season was a clear outlier, and it's the season from which he's furthest removed. Even beyond his injury, he'll never get those roles again here.

Your argument now is that he put up points in Zagreb? True, he did produce at a Kyle Greentree-esque pace.

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11-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #317
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Your also comparing 2 completely different roles. Jeffery is in no way shape or form a 4th liner and should not be expected to be good in that role. Glass and Adams both obviously have their faults but they are better suited for that role than Jeffery. It really is a shame the injury occured because he showed more offensive accumen pre injury than Sutter ever has.
DJ is not a 4th liner as HCDB has defined it, no. He is not a good player to go out, lay some hits, fight, allow tons of shots against, and "win" his shift by finally clearing the puck out of D zone. Maybe force HCDB to call a timeout to rest his players after an icing. We are getting too close to this team's real problems there though. As you can see, I highly question the value of "4th line" players as they are currently defined on this team and by most NHL fans.

DJ is a solid player that can be effective with other semi-skilled guys (like Cooke, TK, sutter, Staal, Duppers, etc). He cannot do it all offensively with Glass and Adams. He needs some help, but has shown the ability to create when having a little "help" from equally skilled linemates.

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11-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Is he great? No. Is he the worst? No. My point was that he did not deserve to get waived as he is better than a handful of players still on the roster (at his worst). He has also shown the talent to produce at a decent level (the players still on this roster have not shown).

Also note that this has been Adams and Glass's best production year by far (mostly due to their huge increase of time with our top 6 centers). So we are comparing a best vs worst case scenario IMO.
He did deserve to get waived, because the roster spot doesn't go to who has the most offensive potential and whose last tangible evidence of that in the NHL was 3 years ago, it goes to who best fills the role.

Jeffrey was a man without a role here. Too slow, too soft (consequently too dependent on playing center to be effective), and this year when he could've exploited his one advantage (offensive IQ), too unproductive. I say this understanding that he may well go on to have success like Letestu on another team...because like Letestu, he may find a role elsewhere that he'd never get here.

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11-18-2013, 01:45 PM
  #319
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DJ is not a 4th liner as HCDB has defined it, no. He is not a good player to go out, lay some hits, fight, allow tons of shots against, and "win" his shift by finally clearing the puck out of D zone. Maybe force HCDB to call a timeout to rest his players after an icing. We are getting too close to this team's real problems there though. As you can see, I highly question the value of "4th line" players as they are currently defined on this team and by most NHL fans.

DJ is a solid player that can be effective with other semi-skilled guys (like Cooke, TK, sutter, Staal, Duppers, etc). He cannot do it all offensively with Glass and Adams. He needs some help, but has shown the ability to create when having a little "help" from equally skilled linemates.
There is a reason that 4th liners exist. Ours generally arent very good but they theory is sound.

Jeffery hasnt shown anything since his injury. Nothing at all. Your statements have no factual base. Mancrushing isnt valid analysis.

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11-18-2013, 01:49 PM
  #320
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He did deserve to get waived, because the roster spot doesn't go to who has the most offensive potential and whose last tangible evidence of that in the NHL was 3 years ago, it goes to who best fills the role.

Jeffrey was a man without a role here. Too slow, too soft (consequently too dependent on playing center to be effective), and this year when he could've exploited his one advantage (offensive IQ), too unproductive. I say this understanding that he may well go on to have success like Letestu on another team...because like Letestu, he may find a role elsewhere that he'd never get here.
Exactly.

Jeffrey wasn't waived because he's the worst player on the team, he was waived because he doesn't fit any role they have available for him. Which is exactly why I said it's good for both the Pens and Jeffrey - the Pens free up the roster spot (and potentially cap space), and Jeffrey gets a fresh start with a team that he's likely a better fit for.

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11-18-2013, 02:21 PM
  #321
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I'm OK with this.

Jeffrey wasn't going to amount to anything here. And honestly, his play hasn't warranted him taking a roster spot.

Now let's just waive Adams and Niskanen too. (Oh wait.)

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11-18-2013, 02:45 PM
  #322
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I'm OK with this.

Jeffrey wasn't going to amount to anything here. And honestly, his play hasn't warranted him taking a roster spot.

Now let's just waive Adams and Niskanen too. (Oh wait.)
lolwut

"#FireEveryone"

o ok

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11-18-2013, 02:55 PM
  #323
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If you feel that waiving a player like Dustin Jeffrey is unforgivable...go back, watch a Pens game from 2003-04 and post your apology below.

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11-18-2013, 03:40 PM
  #324
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If you feel that waiving a player like Dustin Jeffrey is unforgivable...go back, watch a Pens game from 2003-04 and post your apology below.
What do you have against Mike Eastwood and Ramzi Abid?

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11-18-2013, 03:46 PM
  #325
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the bottom line Jeffrey was given as many minutes this season as he could have possibly gotten and he showed nothing. Glad that he may be able to find a new life under different circumstances, wish him all the best, seemed like a nice guys (there is always Zagreb and KHL option)

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