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Eberle+Gagner for Simmonds+BSchenn

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Old
11-20-2013, 10:22 AM
  #1
cgf
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Eberle+Gagner for Simmonds+BSchenn

What would the missing piece(s) be for this forward shake up? Gotten a few response in other threads but wanted more input. I know the flyers are playing well and so probably wouldn't wanna shake things up at the moment unnecessarily, but I think they can afford to sacrifice some grit to get another great winger.

Edmonton moves the best player in the deal and is giving up more value, but would end up a better and more balanced team for it, and Schenn may well end up the best player in the deal if he keeps growing and thrives in that second C role with Perron and Yalubov/Hemsky.

So what balances the hypothetical value on this guy? Or is my thinking way off here? Just seems like this would really set up both teams' top 9s to flourish

Hall - RNH - Simmonds
Perron - Schenn - Yakubov
Arcobello - Gordon - Hemsky

Hartnell - Giroux - Eberle
Gagner - Vinny - Voracek
Read - Coots - Downie

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Old
11-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #2
ted1971
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Horrible deal for the Flyers.

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11-20-2013, 10:34 AM
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Gobo
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Originally Posted by ted1971 View Post
Horrible deal for the Flyers.


How?

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11-20-2013, 10:35 AM
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cgf
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Originally Posted by ted1971 View Post
Horrible deal for the Flyers.
How so? They're getting the best player in the deal who's still very young himself, and Gagner-Simmonds isn't exactly a massive swing in value either way. Both oilers don't bring a physical game, but Philly doesn't need more grit like the oilers do.

*shrug* I just see Eberle doing filthy things with Giroux and a big boy like hartnell clearing space for them.

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11-20-2013, 10:37 AM
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Interesting deal as an oiler fan I would need to think about it.

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11-20-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
Interesting deal as an oiler fan I would need to think about it.
I wouldn't do it. Gagner is obviously replaceable, but wouldn't be willing to trade Eberle away yet. Or the return should at least be bigger.

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11-20-2013, 10:41 AM
  #7
Alklha
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Why would the Flyers want to from Schenn to Gagner in order to get Eberle? If the rumours are to be believed then they would probably work a deal around Simmonds and Eberle without involving the centres.

Then there are the salary cap issues for Philadelphia...

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Old
11-20-2013, 10:42 AM
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No thanks.

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11-20-2013, 10:47 AM
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ManofSteel55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
Interesting deal as an oiler fan I would need to think about it.
It is interesting, and would help with our toughness issues, but I am reluctant to trade Eberle without it being in a package for a top defenseman.

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11-20-2013, 10:48 AM
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Walter Kovacs
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No thank's not keen on sending Eberle away, I think it would be a mistake unless there's a legit #1 defenseman coming back or such a overpayment we can't say no.

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11-20-2013, 10:49 AM
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ManofSteel55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Why would the Flyers want to from Schenn to Gagner in order to get Eberle? If the rumours are to be believed then they would probably work a deal around Simmonds and Eberle without involving the centres.

Then there are the salary cap issues for Philadelphia...
If the rumors were to be believed, the deal probably would have been done already.

Value wise Eberle > Simmonds > Schenn > Gagner, and I believe that the value gap between Eberle and the other three is the largest. Philly gets a legitimate top line player, the Oilers get good players that add toughness to their team, but they lose the only game breaker in the deal.

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11-20-2013, 11:13 AM
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JAY Z
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Originally Posted by ted1971 View Post
Horrible deal for the Flyers.
Nope. You get far and away the best player in the deal in Eberle.

The only reason Oilers would consider this (and do it) is because they desperately need size up front.

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11-20-2013, 11:23 AM
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Philly needs to stop trading core pieces and start getting some structure and fill the gaps.

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11-20-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sokocanuck View Post
Philly needs to stop trading core pieces and start getting some structure and fill the gaps.
They trade two good pieces...but would you really consider Simmonds or BSchenn to really be 'core'?

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Old
11-20-2013, 11:31 AM
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I think it is fair for both teams, yes PHI is getting the better player in Eberle but they are getting two players that they need in the top 6. I think PHI would be better off with two players that are really skilled players especially with passing the puck.
PHI's top 6:
Harnell; Giroux; Eberle
Gagner; Lec; Voracek

EDM's top 6
Hall; RNH; Simmonds
Perron; Schenn; Yak

I think that is better for both teams but that is just my opinion.

For salary cap reasons EDM takes Mez back

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Old
11-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
They trade two good pieces...but would you really consider Simmonds or BSchenn to really be 'core'?
If not, who is their core? Just Giroux?

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11-20-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JAY Z View Post
Nope. You get far and away the best player in the deal in Eberle.

The only reason Oilers would consider this (and do it) is because they desperately need size up front.
The best player? That I can believe. Far and away? When all is said and done, I think Schenn's career will be close enough to Eberle's to make that a tough sell, and I expect Simmonds to end his career with better numbers than Gagner.

This deal would feel a lot better to me from Philly's standpoint if the main components from Edmonton's side were Eberle and Klefbom, which would probably necessitate changes from the Philly side, but without knowing Edmonton's take on that, I couldn't say what those changes should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
They trade two good pieces...but would you really consider Simmonds or BSchenn to really be 'core'?
Yes, absolutely. The Flyers' core, as I see it, is Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, B. Schenn, Mason, and hopefully Laughton and eventually Morin. That's part of what makes this so tough; the only players people generally ask for are core players, then they seem surprised that we don't want to give up our core for their trade bait.

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11-20-2013, 11:35 AM
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Kevin8se7en
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Horrible deal for the Flyers.
Take your homer glasses off

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11-20-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
The best player? That I can believe. Far and away? When all is said and done, I think Schenn's career will be close enough to Eberle's to make that a tough sell, and I expect Simmonds to end his career with better numbers than Gagner.

This deal would feel a lot better to me from Philly's standpoint if the main components from Edmonton's side were Eberle and Klefbom, which would probably necessitate changes from the Philly side, but without knowing Edmonton's take on that, I couldn't say what those changes should be.
Better numbers? I can buy Simmonds being a better and more valuable player than Gagner, but better numbers? That i find very hard to see.

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11-20-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
The best player? That I can believe. Far and away? When all is said and done, I think Schenn's career will be close enough to Eberle's to make that a tough sell, and I expect Simmonds to end his career with better numbers than Gagner.

This deal would feel a lot better to me from Philly's standpoint if the main components from Edmonton's side were Eberle and Klefbom, which would probably necessitate changes from the Philly side, but without knowing Edmonton's take on that, I couldn't say what those changes should be.



Yes, absolutely. The Flyers' core, as I see it, is Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, B. Schenn, Mason, and hopefully Laughton and eventually Morin. That's part of what makes this so tough; the only players people generally ask for are core players, then they seem surprised that we don't want to give up our core for their trade bait.
They might be part of your core but it is not like we are giving up chop liver. Eberle and Gagner are part of EDM's core also. I feel it is a deal that is fair and good for both teams.

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11-20-2013, 11:56 AM
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dilbert719
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Better numbers? I can buy Simmonds being a better and more valuable player than Gagner, but better numbers? That i find very hard to see.
Depends on whether you're sticking to points as the number, or looking at the numbers that cover all aspects of the game. To date, Gagner and Simmonds have nearly identical GPG stats (Gagner .21, Simmonds .22), and while Gagner's APG numbers are much higher, which being a center rather than a grinding winger generally will do for you, Simmonds has a higher +/-, his shooting percentage is better, and his average TOI is lower. Extrapolating last season out to 82 games, he'd have been in the vicinity of 30/30/60, coming on the heels of a 28/21/49 season. This year's been a bit worse, but its been worse for every Flyer not named Mason, Lecavalier, or B. Schenn.

Gagner's been a very consistent player, putting up nearly exactly the same per game numbers every year (obviously, his APG went up a good bit last year, and his GPG a little bit.) Simmonds, however, had a big spike when he got to Philly, and the stats he's been sporting since joining our team, extrapolated out with room for more advancement as he hits his prime (and, of course, adjusting Gagner's numbers for a similar prime-year improvement), would be at least as good as Gagner, and in all likelihood better.

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Old
11-20-2013, 12:11 PM
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The Oilers need DEFENSE. This is more of a lateral move for them and is not going to do much in terms of getting them out of the cellar in the West.

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11-20-2013, 12:20 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
They trade two good pieces...but would you really consider Simmonds or BSchenn to really be 'core'?
Simmer for sure! And yes for Schenn as well.

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11-20-2013, 12:31 PM
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IMO Eberle + Gagner > Simmonds + Schenn something small from Philadelphia should come back.

For Edmonton they need defense more so than just trading forwards.

Eberle+prospect Dman for Simmonds+Couburn

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11-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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It doesn't work with the cap. Homer is a smoke 'em if you got 'em type of GM.

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