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Habs scouting the Avs

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:49 PM
  #176
Avs44
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
The same PAP who is 30 and never cracked 20 goals in the NHL? that guy??


that would be a horrid return for a world class puck mover and PP QB. Personally I hope they resign him cause he and Subban are just magic to watch together. However, if they do move him at the deadline, it wont be for a 30 year old guy, that much I can promise you.
Yes, you won't be getting a top 6 winger signed to a good contract.


Probably a typical rental return. Pick and prospect.

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11-21-2013, 03:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Peso View Post
Markov has been healthy for quite a few months of playing. I'm not saying he is far from injury prone but he seems to be fully 100% since returning and getting games under his belt. His foot speed has improved as well.

I understand the UFA part but Markov is IMO playing at this time as one of the top 10-15 dmen in the league. When on the ice his team is often scoring or has lots of scoring chances.

If Colorado was seriously going for the cup by deadline. I could see Colorado being seriously interested. Special teams almost win games in the playoffs and he is a top pairing dman. If he was dealt he would most likely re-sign with the team he is dealt to. Markov that Habs fans know is he is loyal and he doesn't want to be moved or move around if dealt.

If Douglas Murray got 2 2nd rounders from a team all in. Then Markov's return would be the sky is the limit if comparing value. He would be a great leader for the young guys in the locker room. Like Hejda, Markov would bring a solid all around game to the AVS. More offense of course but you get what I mean. Hejda has been solid since being in Colorado.
Bouwmeester got a conditional first and low level prospects. I would expect a similar deal for Markov.

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11-21-2013, 04:00 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Yes, you won't be getting a top 6 winger signed to a good contract.


Probably a typical rental return. Pick and prospect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Bouwmeester got a conditional first and low level prospects. I would expect a similar deal for Markov.

thats exactly what I would want. Why get a 30 year old guy who wont be much of an upgrade over what we have alreadyand who could be gone soon.

if Markov goes its gonna be for a prospect and a pick IMO. No interest in PA for Markov...

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11-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
thats exactly what I would want. Why get a 30 year old guy who wont be much of an upgrade over what we have alreadyand who could be gone soon.

if Markov goes its gonna be for a prospect and a pick IMO. No interest in PA for Markov...
Interesting. I'd take the proven forward with a really good contrat over the picks and prospects.

I really don't see the Avs making a move for Markov anyways. He could help but it I don't think the Avs are ready yet and should be targeting players that are about to enter their prime.

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11-21-2013, 05:30 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Interesting. I'd take the proven forward with a really good contrat over the picks and prospects.

I really don't see the Avs making a move for Markov anyways. He could help but it I don't think the Avs are ready yet and should be targeting players that are about to enter their prime.
Thats kinda what I meant about PAP. If he was 25 then it might be a different story..

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11-21-2013, 07:09 PM
  #181
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Thats kinda what I meant about PAP. If he was 25 then it might be a different story..
Some players are rare cases though, they're late bloomers and Parenteau is exactly that. He doesn't rely on his physical abilities so much that he will break down later on in his career ala Dany Heatley, and he just began to flourish only a couple seasons ago after playing in the minors for so long. I certainly think he has at least 5-6 really good years left in him where I can see him putting up 55-60 points

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11-21-2013, 07:24 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
If anything, I think the fact that Montreal has long been scouting the Avalanche suggests that Montreal is considering a big move and wants to make sure they know what they're getting. If I were you, I'd set up a barricade around Subban's home.
If they were going to trade Subban, it would be for a big piece from the Avalanche, which goes along the lines of what I was saying.

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11-21-2013, 08:39 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Interesting. I'd take the proven forward with a really good contrat over the picks and prospects.

I really don't see the Avs making a move for Markov anyways. He could help but it I don't think the Avs are ready yet and should be targeting players that are about to enter their prime.
Except the problem is that the Habs don't need another "proven forward" that scores between 10-20 goals. They have plenty of that. What the Habs need is a winger with size and game-breaking ability, who can score anywhere between 30-40 goals.

Trading Markov won't get that. As mentioned, he'll net a max return of a prospect(s) + pick(s). If the Habs are nowhere near the playoffs and are looking to the future, that may be an option to look into. Right now, as a bubble team, you want to improve your team for the present AND the future. Parenteau, as reliable as he is, does not bring any new dimension to the Habs that they don't already have.

A Parenteau for Markov (with pieces on either side) just doesn't make sense... for either team.

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11-21-2013, 08:40 PM
  #184
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John Mitchell lol

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11-21-2013, 08:42 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
Except the problem is that the Habs don't need another "proven forward" that scores between 10-20 goals. They have plenty of that. What the Habs need is a winger with size and game-breaking ability, who can score anywhere between 30-40 goals.

Trading Markov won't get that. As mentioned, he'll net a max return of a prospect(s) + pick(s). If the Habs are nowhere near the playoffs and are looking to the future, that may be an option to look into. Right now, as a bubble team, you want to improve your team for the present AND the future. Parenteau, as reliable as he is, does not bring any new dimension to the Habs that they don't already have.

A Parenteau for Markov (with pieces on either side) just doesn't make sense... for either team.
10-20 goals is an extreme lowball for PAP... 20-30 goals is much more accurate, possibly 25-35

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11-21-2013, 09:43 PM
  #186
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Scouts tonight?

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11-21-2013, 09:50 PM
  #187
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Malkin really wants to play for the habs, huh?

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11-21-2013, 11:10 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
agreed it is odd, also its odd to scout for so many games unless the deal is huge wouldnt you think?

I mean if it is a swap of 3rd or 4th liners you go have a look 2-3 times maybe.
In the hypothetical context of the reason the Habs are scouting the Avs so heavily being a trade, I would definitely agree that the deal would be relatively big for them to justify spending so much time at Avs games (both in Denver and on the road).

But I just don't know what it'd be. Let's try and break it down, shall we? (Could be fun)

It won't be Duchene. Why wouldn't it be? Because he just signed a team-friendly, long-term contract before this year began. He grew up a fan of the team and he absolutely loves it in Denver.

It wouldn't be Landeskog. Why wouldn't it be? Because he also just signed a team-friendly (in my opinion), long-term contract this year as well (7 years 39M) and from what we know the Organization is also in love with him.

It (probably) wouldn't be O'Reilly. Why wouldn't it be? Besides the fact that he can't be traded until February, it seems like the new Management (Roy/Sakic) have done quite a bit to make amends for the failings of the Old Management (Eric Lacroix ) and the early rumor/word that some of us are hearing around the Avs board is that the relationship smoothing has been well received.

It wouldn't be MacKinnon. Why wouldn't it be? Because he was just drafted #1 Overall by them not even more than 6 months ago.

It (probably) wouldn't be Erik Johnson. Why wouldn't it be? Because without him the Avs Defense is even WORSE than it is now. He's (very quietly) turned into a quality #1 Defenseman. Will he ever put up a ridiculous amount of points? No, probably not, but he's playing great Defense and getting himself more involved in Offensive play, and he's still only 25, still got just a little time to grow.

Now, on the Canadiens side, I admittedly don't know much about your team, but here's who I wouldn't believe would be involved in a trade.

Subban
Galchenyuk
Price

I'm sure there are more and for a number of reasons they wouldn't be traded.

Subban, I think, is easy. He's a Norris winning Defenseman, and those don't grow on Trees. He'd be too hard to get the proper value coming back. He'd most assuredly be worth a Duchene/O'Reilly/Landeskog type of player, but the Avs won't move them, it doesn't make sense for the Avalanche organization. And Montreal would not be wise to trade him for a package that would be headlined by Stastny (regardless of how much Stastny's play has improved under an ACTUAL head coach).

Galchenyuk. Much like Subban, we just don't have the players/assets that we would want to part with to acquire the talented young player. He'll be a great player for Montreal.

Price. This one is kind of obvious. Montreal shouldn't be trading him and the Avalanche don't need him. Varlamov is playing lights out, and if he keeps this up his name will most assuredly be in the conversation for the Vezina. And Giguere is playing wonderfully in the backup role.

In the end, do the Avs and Canadiens make good trading partners? Hard to say. I'd lean "no" just on the basis that the items we'd realistically want from one another, aren't really for sale....

But, I guess that's the great thing about Hockey trades....the players you think aren't for sale (or would cost too much) can be traded and leave the team giving him up going "What the hell did my GM just do!?"

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Old
11-21-2013, 11:26 PM
  #189
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It will be something like : Diaz/gorges & Bourque/Gionta for Parenteau/Tanguay & 6th,7th Dman.

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11-22-2013, 12:00 AM
  #190
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I am sure the Avs need dmen. Raphy Diaz needs to go from Montreal. He would be an interesting target for Colorado. I'm not sure what we would need in return. Highly doubt Bergevin is trying to deal anything else significant away maybe except for Desharnais and Bourque. Diaz for a 2nd or Sgarbossa I'd do.

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11-22-2013, 09:24 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peso View Post
Markov has been healthy for quite a few months of playing. I'm not saying he is far from injury prone but he seems to be fully 100% since returning and getting games under his belt. His foot speed has improved as well.

I understand the UFA part but Markov is IMO playing at this time as one of the top 10-15 dmen in the league. When on the ice his team is often scoring or has lots of scoring chances.

If Colorado was seriously going for the cup by deadline. I could see Colorado being seriously interested. Special teams almost win games in the playoffs and he is a top pairing dman. If he was dealt he would most likely re-sign with the team he is dealt to. Markov that Habs fans know is he is loyal and he doesn't want to be moved or move around if dealt.

If Douglas Murray got 2 2nd rounders from a team all in. Then Markov's return would be the sky is the limit if comparing value. He would be a great leader for the young guys in the locker room. Like Hejda, Markov would bring a solid all around game to the AVS. More offense of course but you get what I mean. Hejda has been solid since being in Colorado.
That's true but IF they were interested, they wouldn't give up pieces they need like Parenteau in order to get a guy like Markov. You'd be looking at a 'futures' package.

By the way, you can't compare BAD TRADES like the return Douglas Murray got and apply it across the board, it doesn't work that way. We once traded Parros to the Ducks for a 2nd round pick after having picked him up on waivers three weeks before. If that sets the bar, what do you think 2nd and 3rd liners are worth??

Markov's return would be 'generally' what the return is for rental (as long as he's healthy and doesn't have any nagging injuries) and that's a 1st round pick + a good/decent prospect and perhaps another pick or prospect depending on the quality of the prospect.

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