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Old
11-28-2013, 10:10 PM
  #201
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Thank God for the ahl, otherwise there would be no way for young players to learn, grow and develop

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11-28-2013, 10:25 PM
  #202
Til the End of Time
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they should give letang the despres treatment-- send him to the ahl to work on his defense, with no pp time at all.

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11-28-2013, 10:30 PM
  #203
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Send Kris "I am easily distracted by reflective surfaces that lets me see my sexiness" Letang on a defense learning assignment, first of its kind, NHLPA will be all like "Hey wait a....oh, what? No...hold on, let me grab the rules binder."

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11-29-2013, 08:01 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Thank God for the ahl, otherwise there would be no way for young players to learn, grow and develop
thought the same thing, new way to spin yet another stupid decision...

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11-29-2013, 08:37 AM
  #205
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There's nothing wrong with letting a kid that needs work on his defensive game do so in the AHL. He got way more minutes to work on it down there than he would have up here.

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11-29-2013, 08:45 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Thank God for the ahl, otherwise there would be no way for young players to learn, grow and develop
You just don't get it man.

You can't keep a kid like Despres up in the NHL and tell him to just focus on defense and simplify his game. That's just silly. I can't fathom how that would even work without ruining the kid permanently.

It's simply unpossible!

Besides, they got to keep Nisky and run Glass and Adams as their third line for a big chunk of the season. Not like moving Nisky could of helped solidify other areas on the team.

They need Nisky you know.

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11-29-2013, 08:49 AM
  #207
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I mean I hear what you guys are saying and I agree. But I don't think it's a terrible idea to have him go back and JUST focus on defense for awhile.

Here is where I get mad - You tell the kid he's going to be a top 4 guy and then tell him to work on his defense in the AHL first. What? Don't lie to him at the end of last season. Just tell him "here is where you are and here is where I want you to be." That would have made more sense. Then you can let the kid build through the offseason.

Now the kid comes to camp and people are saying he's out of shape. I don't know if I buy all that ****. It is just a mess. Bad communication through this whole process. I don't know if that is best practice with one of your big pieces.

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Old
11-29-2013, 08:55 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You just don't get it man.

You can't keep a kid like Despres up in the NHL and tell him to just focus on defense and simplify his game. That's just silly. I can't fathom how that would even work without ruining the kid permanently.

It's simply unpossible!

Besides, they got to keep Nisky and run Glass and Adams as their third line for a big chunk of the season. Not like moving Nisky could of helped solidify other areas on the team.

They need Nisky you know.
so you're saying it's... not fair?

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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I mean I hear what you guys are saying and I agree. But I don't think it's a terrible idea to have him go back and JUST focus on defense for awhile.

Here is where I get mad - You tell the kid he's going to be a top 4 guy and then tell him to work on his defense in the AHL first. What? Don't lie to him at the end of last season. Just tell him "here is where you are and here is where I want you to be." That would have made more sense. Then you can let the kid build through the offseason.

Now the kid comes to camp and people are saying he's out of shape. I don't know if I buy all that ****. It is just a mess. Bad communication through this whole process. I don't know if that is best practice with one of your big pieces.
Don't talk to me. You've hurt my feelings.

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11-29-2013, 08:55 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I mean I hear what you guys are saying and I agree. But I don't think it's a terrible idea to have him go back and JUST focus on defense for awhile.

Here is where I get mad - You tell the kid he's going to be a top 4 guy and then tell him to work on his defense in the AHL first. What? Don't lie to him at the end of last season. Just tell him "here is where you are and here is where I want you to be." That would have made more sense. Then you can let the kid build through the offseason.

Now the kid comes to camp and people are saying he's out of shape. I don't know if I buy all that ****. It is just a mess. Bad communication through this whole process. I don't know if that is best practice with one of your big pieces.
I think they fully intended on him being in the NHL this year. Then Maatta came up and played way better than they expected, so Despres' waiver status got him sent to the AHL. Whatever, so far its worked out. What will really make me mad is if he keeps up his good play but still gets sent back down when we get healthy. If he is anywhere near as good as he was last game going forward, he belongs on this team. Despres played better against Toronto than Orpik or Niskanen have played at any point over the last few seasons. Our best d line-up would not include either Orpik or Niskanen imo. Maybe Orpik on the third pairing in place of Bortuzzo. But at that point, give me Orpik's trade return and cap space instead.

Letang - Scuderi
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo
Engo

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11-29-2013, 09:24 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I mean I hear what you guys are saying and I agree. But I don't think it's a terrible idea to have him go back and JUST focus on defense for awhile.

Here is where I get mad - You tell the kid he's going to be a top 4 guy and then tell him to work on his defense in the AHL first. What? Don't lie to him at the end of last season. Just tell him "here is where you are and here is where I want you to be." That would have made more sense. Then you can let the kid build through the offseason.

Now the kid comes to camp and people are saying he's out of shape. I don't know if I buy all that ****. It is just a mess. Bad communication through this whole process. I don't know if that is best practice with one of your big pieces.
Despres is a better player than Nisky. It's not really even close TBTH.

I get that Shero didn't want to deal Nisky when other GMs were under the impression he had to deal him. However, I'm not sure the return he could of gotten in Sept, is going to be appreciably better the longer he waits.

The accrued cap savings between Nisky and Despres by the deadline is also a factor.

IMHO, there is no legit reason Despres and Maatta shouldn't have played on the same roster together, while trading Nisky for third line depth, which is laughable at this point.

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11-29-2013, 09:30 AM
  #211
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I like how a lot of people are all "Whoa... such improvement in the AHL! This guy might be getting back on track! Turns out the Pens were on to something, huh? He isn't the defensive monstrosity he was last season, so far! I sure hope he can keep it up... he might turn out to be pretty OK!"

I mean... not as much here, I guess. But are fans' memories really that short? The guy looked great (on both sides of the rink) for the vast majority of the games he played, last season.

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11-29-2013, 09:33 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I like how a lot of people are all "Whoa... such improvement in the AHL! This guy might be getting back on track! Turns out the Pens were on to something, huh? He isn't the defensive monstrosity he was last season, so far! I sure hope he can keep it up... he might turn out to be pretty OK!"

I mean... not as much here, I guess. But are fans' memories really that short? The guy looked great (on both sides of the rink) for the vast majority of the games he played, last season.
nope, they aren't short. They refuse to believe the guy looked that good here last year. And they support it by saying, "SEE, HE WAS IN THE AHL!"

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11-29-2013, 09:37 AM
  #213
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with the questions that certainly surrounded Maatta staying up, I can understand why we handled this how we did out of the gates. I don't particularly agree with it, but at least I get it. But now we have seen enough that either Niskanen, Orpik or both should be traded as Martin and Scuderi come back from their respective injuries. Neither of the two belong in our top 4, and both are payed too much more than their 3rd pairing counterpart to be worth keeping in that role. At least one of those two needs to go for some forward help.

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11-29-2013, 09:47 AM
  #214
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The irony is that Despres' re-emergence will ultimately lead to us losing Bortuzzo for nothing.

So, they'll continue to do the wrong thing as long as they're unwilling to move a veteran D-man.

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11-29-2013, 09:51 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The irony is that Despres' re-emergence will ultimately lead to us losing Bortuzzo for nothing.

So, they'll continue to do the wrong thing as long as they're unwilling to move a veteran D-man.
I'm not buying this until I see it happen.

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11-29-2013, 09:58 AM
  #216
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I agree that there's nothing wrong with Despres being sent down to work on his defensive side. It was at the time, work on it up here for 6/15 minutes a game or down there being a top minute muncher.

Scuderi, Letang
Orpik, Martin

Pretty much guaranteed it to play out that way, and Maata came in and totally put the nail in the coffin for him. It has worked out for him and it is up to him now to force their hand and he'll get pleanty of time to do it by way of injuries.

It will be fun watching this all pan out, and most of you will get your wish at some point.

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11-29-2013, 10:25 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
so you're saying it's... not fair?



Don't talk to me. You've hurt my feelings.
Haha.. our dispute is over something simple. I believe when a turnover occurs, the plays following are a direct result of the turnover. Obviously it's play by play analyzed, but that's how I saw that happening.

But I also have a lot of experience making those turnovers, so let me tell you!

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11-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #218
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It'd be a mistake to send Maatta back down, and an even bigger one to not give him regular minutes while he's up here. And if the Despres we got last game is the guy we're getting consistently, then management should be slapped if they send him back to WBS. Seeing as how both he and Despres are best on LD, trade has to be coming when Martin and Scuds are back.

I refuse to believe Orpik can't be the guy to go. Fetch us a legit top 6 forward we can keep longterm and not be any worse off defensively. Move Nisky as well to make room for Bort in the top 6.

Despres-Martin
Scuds-Letang
Maatta-Bort

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11-29-2013, 11:34 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
It'd be a mistake to send Maatta back down, and an even bigger one to not give him regular minutes while he's up here. And if the Despres we got last game is the guy we're getting consistently, then management should be slapped if they send him back to WBS. Seeing as how both he and Despres are best on LD, trade has to be coming when Martin and Scuds are back.

I refuse to believe Orpik can't be the guy to go. Fetch us a legit top 6 forward we can keep longterm and not be any worse off defensively. Move Nisky as well to make room for Bort in the top 6.

Despres-Martin
Scuds-Letang
Maatta-Bort
You, my friend, are proving to be more stubborn than Bylsma.

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11-29-2013, 11:41 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You, my friend, are proving to be more stubborn than Bylsma.
Hell, give the Ducks both Orpik and Nisky. DB will get over it when he has good 'ole American boy KP and all dat grit in Winnik. One can dream.

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11-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Now the kid comes to camp and people are saying he's out of shape. I don't know if I buy all that ****. It is just a mess. Bad communication through this whole process. I don't know if that is best practice with one of your big pieces.
Did anyone in the organization actually say that, or are people hearing what the media assumed and attributing it to the Pens staff? Because I don't recall anybody with the Pens saying anything about Despres being out of shape.

I do remember Yohe putting out something and our board running with it...then Jacob calling him out for it.

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11-29-2013, 11:48 AM
  #222
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IIRC, the only thing the organization officially said about it is that he was sick and they were actually quite pleased that he was pushing through it to participate.

So yeah... that was a giant load of baloney.

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11-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think they fully intended on him being in the NHL this year. Then Maatta came up and played way better than they expected, so Despres' waiver status got him sent to the AHL. Whatever, so far its worked out. What will really make me mad is if he keeps up his good play but still gets sent back down when we get healthy. If he is anywhere near as good as he was last game going forward, he belongs on this team. Despres played better against Toronto than Orpik or Niskanen have played at any point over the last few seasons. Our best d line-up would not include either Orpik or Niskanen imo. Maybe Orpik on the third pairing in place of Bortuzzo. But at that point, give me Orpik's trade return and cap space instead.

Letang - Scuderi
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo
Engo
This is what the defense should look like but unfortunately it won't. Niskenin and orpik trades make to much sense. CaP space and probably a decent forward coming back for orpik. For that matte I want engo and Adams off this team. I would be the happiest fan ever to never see them dress again.

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11-29-2013, 12:35 PM
  #224
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Haha.. our dispute is over something simple. I believe when a turnover occurs, the plays following are a direct result of the turnover. Obviously it's play by play analyzed, but that's how I saw that happening.

But I also have a lot of experience making those turnovers, so let me tell you!
I don't mind the disagreement, but you said I don't watch hockey. This level of *****ing and moaning doesn't appear out of nowhere

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11-29-2013, 12:36 PM
  #225
IcedCapp
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This is what the defense should look like but unfortunately it won't. I want engo and Adams off this team. I would be the happiest fan ever to never see them dress again.
I want Engo on the team, as a forward

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