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Roster Speculation 2013-2014 Part II

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12-08-2013, 09:43 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
That's arguable.

I think you're right: ultimately, they'll settle for the second- and third-tier free agents (and those free agents will settle for Buffalo). But I don't think taking a run at high-end talent in free agency should be entirely dismissed just because it might hurt your chances at obtaining a draft pick you may not even get.

If Buffalo is in on McDavid, it means this team's cast of young players hasn't improved.

WHAT?

Well depends on what "young players" you're referring to...

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12-08-2013, 09:45 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
That's arguable.

I think you're right: ultimately, they'll settle for the second- and third-tier free agents (and those free agents will settle for Buffalo). But I don't think taking a run at high-end talent in free agency should be entirely dismissed just because it might hurt your chances at obtaining a draft pick you may not even get.

If Buffalo is in on McDavid, it means this team's cast of young players hasn't improved.
Buffalo is literally the worst team in the league. If we're in on McDavid next year it doesn't mean anything. How much improvement do you expect exactly?

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12-08-2013, 09:46 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
WHAT?

Well depends on what "young players" you're referring to...
Primarily Myers, Hodgson, Ennis and Foligno. But even players that will be entering their second full seasons will be taking steps forward (Girgensons, Pysyk).

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12-08-2013, 09:47 PM
  #279
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If this Front Office is not targeting the top 3 in the 2015 Draft they need to be fired tomorrow.

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12-08-2013, 09:48 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
But I don't think taking a run at high-end talent in free agency should be entirely dismissed just because it might hurt your chances at obtaining a draft pick you may not even get.
If there's a high-end talent out there that fits the rebuild (a guy like ROR), then you absolutely go make a play for him. But those types are very, very rarely available. Guys like Thornton, Marleau, etc don't make any sense for Buffalo. It's not like they're being brought in expressly to mentor someone that's going to take their spot. The guy to be #1 C is either Grigorenko or not in the organization yet.

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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
If Buffalo is in on McDavid, it means this team's cast of young players hasn't improved.
Disagree. It means that they're still slow cooking and still developing. Next year, maybe Ristolainen earns a full time spot, taking over Tallinder's spot. Maybe McNabb takes over Sulzer's spot and there's still a 7th D spot left (hellllo, overpaid vet).
Maybe Armia takes over Moulson's spot (though I think he takes one more year). Larsson's likely up full time. Add a few vets....and it's STILL a terrible team, even if Risto and Larsson improve.

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12-08-2013, 09:51 PM
  #281
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Players can still improve while the team sucks because in hockey, except for goaltender, one player can't really lift a team by himself. You need to have guys playing well throughout the lineup.

I don't think you use up assets to trade for a top player until you are on the upswing, but if someone is out there in free agency and is willing to sign here you take him. The team as a whole is still going to be pretty bad, even if you get a top-notch player to sign here. It just has to be long enough a term that the player is still here when the team is ready to start contending (and not too old where he might be washed up).

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12-08-2013, 09:53 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
That's arguable.

I think you're right: ultimately, they'll settle for the second- and third-tier free agents (and those free agents will settle for Buffalo). But I don't think taking a run at high-end talent in free agency should be entirely dismissed just because it might hurt your chances at obtaining a draft pick you may not even get.

If Buffalo is in on McDavid, it means this team's cast of young players hasn't improved.
1) Its not being dismissed because it will hurt the tank, its being dismissed because it won't help a cup run. Joe Thornton shows up and does what? By the time the players that would benefit from Jumbo are mature enough to play this team through the playoffs, Joe would be on the verge of retirement and would be holding up younger players on the depth chart.

2) This teams cast of young players -Pysyk and Girgensons are all in Roc or worse. Improvement would be they're playing in the NHL at the end of next season. This team is bad and will be bad next season too.

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12-08-2013, 09:55 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Players can still improve while the team sucks because in hockey, except for goaltender, one player can't really lift a team by himself. You need to have guys playing well throughout the lineup.

I don't think you use up assets to trade for a top player until you are on the upswing, but if someone is out there in free agency and is willing to sign here you take him. The team as a whole is still going to be pretty bad, even if you get a top-notch player to sign here. It just has to be long enough a term that the player is still here when the team is ready to start contending (and not too old where he might be washed up).
or short enough term that theyre gone by 2016

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12-08-2013, 11:00 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Hell freakin' no.

Get your blue chips first then worry about "development".

They better not try and improve for next year.
Yep, eyes on the prize:


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12-08-2013, 11:25 PM
  #285
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I'm beginning to think some people have way too high of expectations for Myers, Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno etc. People said the same thing last year "If we're the worst team in the league the kids aren't improving" and the reality of it that even if these kids DO improve this is still the worst team in the league. Half of it is that the rest of the team sucks and the other half is that a lot of the younger players on this team just aren't that great. Some of them are good but none of them are even close to being great.

Let's put it this way, in my opinion of course. There's a considerable difference between the talent level of guys like Ristolainen/Zadorov/Armia/Grigorenko and the guys taken in the top 3 of most drafts. And there's an even bigger difference between the talent level of those 4 guys (Risto, Zad etc...) and the young players currently on the team except maybe Hodgson.

As much as I like our prospect pool I don't buy that it's the 2nd best in the league like some sites want you to believe. Without an elite talent in the pool there's a lot of work to be done.

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12-09-2013, 11:10 AM
  #286
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New lines today at practice
Foligno-Ott-Stafford
Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons
Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini
Scott/Flynn-Leino-McCormick

Sulzer is back

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12-09-2013, 11:19 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
If this Front Office is not targeting the top 3 in the 2015 Draft they need to be fired tomorrow.
Based on this logic, if Buffalo had a chance to improve this offseason by adding a young player through trade (for the sake of this argument, let's call it O'Reilly or Couturier), you're not going to do it because the Sabres will lessen their already-low chances at drafting McDavid (or anywhere at the top of the draft, at that)?

If Buffalo sucks next year and lands McDavid, great. But I'd still hope LaFontaine and co. exercise every option available to improve the Sabres. Thornton was an extreme example -- he'll sign either with SJ or another contender -- but there is absolutely no reason the front office shouldn't be looking at free agency and trade as avenues to improve.

A guy like Jagr (who I proposed earlier) isn't going to come in and turn this team around.

And again, I'm not necessarily lobbying for this. I'm saying that given new regime's commitment to putting players in roles in which they can excel, it shouldn't be ruled out as being possible (and I think it does serve some value for a rebuilding team).


Last edited by gallagt01: 12-09-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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12-09-2013, 11:22 AM
  #288
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Young players can improve on a talent-poor roster and the team still be bad. Perhaps they won't be so epicly bad, but they will likely be bad (taking Miller out, putting in young players who make the mistakes young players make) next year barring a miracle this off-season.

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12-09-2013, 11:23 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
New lines today at practice
Foligno-Ott-Stafford
Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons
Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini
Scott/Flynn-Leino-McCormick

Sulzer is back
These are interesting. Nolan mustn't be too pleased with Hodgson's play of late.

I don't like that Leino's been relegated to the fourth line due to one poor performance.

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12-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
New lines today at practice
Foligno-Ott-Stafford
Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons
Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini
Scott/Flynn-Leino-McCormick

Sulzer is back
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
These are interesting. Nolan mustn't be too pleased with Hodgson's play of late.

I don't like that Leino's been relegated to the fourth line due to one poor performance.
It could also be the "hurl the spaghetti against the wall and see if anything sticks" practice day.

And looking at that lineup, it remains painfully clear that they are in dire need of NHL-quality centers. By my standards, I count 1 (Hodgson). Eeek.

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12-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
These are interesting. Nolan mustn't be too pleased with Hodgson's play of late.

I don't like that Leino's been relegated to the fourth line due to one poor performance.
Perhaps ..... I just think at this point Nolan's throwing anything together to try to create a spark somewhere somehow. Even if it's for one period or one game

But it could be demotion motivation too. Or both.

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12-09-2013, 11:37 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
It could also be the "hurl the spaghetti against the wall and see if anything sticks" practice day.

And looking at that lineup, it remains painfully clear that they are in dire need of NHL-quality centers. By my standards, I count 1 (Hodgson). Eeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Perhaps ..... I just think at this point Nolan's throwing anything together to try to create a spark somewhere somehow. Even if it's for one period or one game

But it could be demotion motivation too. Or both.
Either way, if I had to guess, opposing coaches are going to deploy their top checkers against the Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons trio, and I don't really care for that.

And yeah, Chain, the void the Sabres have down the middle is troubling. When you take into consideration that Girgensons seems to be a guy they want on the wing and that Grigorenko has some question marks, it's still a need organizationally, too.

If Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini sticks, Hodgson sure as hell better bring a strong game.

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12-09-2013, 11:49 AM
  #293
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Hodgson and Moulson haven't combined (Moulson from Hodgson, Hodgson from Moulson) on a goal in 10 games. There isn't any chemistry there.

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12-09-2013, 11:52 AM
  #294
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Brayden McNabb manning a point on the power play during practice. Might be a sign he's going back in tomorrow. #Sabres

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12-09-2013, 11:54 AM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
Either way, if I had to guess, opposing coaches are going to deploy their top checkers against the Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons trio, and I don't really care for that.

And yeah, Chain, the void the Sabres have down the middle is troubling. When you take into consideration that Girgensons seems to be a guy they want on the wing and that Grigorenko has some question marks, it's still a need organizationally, too.

If Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini sticks, Hodgson sure as hell better bring a strong game.
The deck chairs have been shuffled. Perhaps the band can play on.

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12-09-2013, 11:57 AM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
Either way, if I had to guess, opposing coaches are going to deploy their top checkers against the Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons trio, and I don't really care for that.

And yeah, Chain, the void the Sabres have down the middle is troubling. When you take into consideration that Girgensons seems to be a guy they want on the wing and that Grigorenko has some question marks, it's still a need organizationally, too.

If Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini sticks, Hodgson sure as hell better bring a strong game.
Why not? It should free up our leading scorer, right?

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12-09-2013, 12:05 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
Either way, if I had to guess, opposing coaches are going to deploy their top checkers against the Moulson-Ennis-Girgensons trio, and I don't really care for that.

And yeah, Chain, the void the Sabres have down the middle is troubling. When you take into consideration that Girgensons seems to be a guy they want on the wing and that Grigorenko has some question marks, it's still a need organizationally, too.

If Adam-Hodgson-D'Agostini sticks, Hodgson sure as hell better bring a strong game.
Call me crazy, but I doubt any opposing coach is losing sleep worrying about matchups against that forward corps.

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12-09-2013, 12:10 PM
  #298
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I'm beginning to think some people have way too high of expectations for Myers, Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno etc. People said the same thing last year "If we're the worst team in the league the kids aren't improving" and the reality of it that even if these kids DO improve this is still the worst team in the league. Half of it is that the rest of the team sucks and the other half is that a lot of the younger players on this team just aren't that great. Some of them are good but none of them are even close to being great.

Let's put it this way, in my opinion of course. There's a considerable difference between the talent level of guys like Ristolainen/Zadorov/Armia/Grigorenko and the guys taken in the top 3 of most drafts. And there's an even bigger difference between the talent level of those 4 guys (Risto, Zad etc...) and the young players currently on the team except maybe Hodgson.

As much as I like our prospect pool I don't buy that it's the 2nd best in the league like some sites want you to believe. Without an elite talent in the pool there's a lot of work to be done.
I think Myers is having a very good season. Hodgson is being forced to play 1st line center and he's not ready for it and probably will max out as a 2nd liner so I think he's right on track. Foligno is probably a 3rd line winger. Ennis is an enigma to me, some games he's brutal and others he's good. Out of those 4, I'm the most concerned about Ennis.

As for our prospect pool being ranked 2nd...
Our defensive prospects are probably as good as anybody. We have many potential 2nd, 3rd and 4th line centers and wingers with the possible exception of Armia becoming a 1st liner. Our goaltending is probably average. I'm not sure if that should get you to a 2nd ranking. I agree with you that we're missing elite offensive players. The next 2 drafts should take care of that.

We need to remain patient with our young players and prospects and 2 years from now we should go after FA's to fill in the holes.

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12-09-2013, 12:12 PM
  #299
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Why not? It should free up our leading scorer, right?
Yep. Pointed that out at the end of my post.

Ennis and Girgensons can't handle top checking assignments. That's why I don't like it.

Edit: It's unfair of me to say that Girgensons can't. He's never done so at the NHL level. He just shouldn't have to right now.

Quote:
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Call me crazy, but I doubt any opposing coach is losing sleep worrying about matchups against that forward corps.
Very true.


Last edited by gallagt01: 12-09-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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12-09-2013, 12:26 PM
  #300
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#Sabres practicing power play. 1st unit: Moulson-Hodgson-Ennis. McBain-Ehrhoff. 2nd unit: Foligno-Ott-Stafford. McNabb-Myers.

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On #Sabres PK: 1st unit. McCormick-Flynn. Sulzer-Pysyk. 2nd unit. Girgensons-Adam/D'Agostini. Weber-Tallinder.

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