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Blues Trade Proposals Part VIII

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12-26-2013, 04:21 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
What are you looking for? I can't imagine we'd meet the asking price but for conversation's sake:

Kevin Shattenkirk + 1st would be the starting point I guess with us adding other pieces.

Pieces I wouldn't consider including are David Backes and Alex Pietrangelo. I say that because I know a #1 center and defenseman seem to be primary desires of Oiler fans
It's a delicate situation. Since our C depth is non existant we'd ideally want a C back unless we're content with drafting Reinhart and sucking for a couple more years. I don't think Berglund is the solution so ideally we'd want a signed Roy + Shattenkirk for RNH and our 1st or something like that. Guess Blues aren't too interested in our 1st though since you want to win now but in a couple of years you'd have a very good RNH and a very good Ekblad (probably better than Shattenkirk) assuming this deal is made at the draft and we have 2nd overall pick.

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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If anything, something would have to be worked around RNH+Petry for Shattenkirk+Berglund+1st
I like that actually but I think we'd need something else than that 1st. What about Jake Allen or rights to Halak?

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12-26-2013, 04:24 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Anyone remember this gem, good times.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ghlight=backes
Haha yes. I'm not one for bumping old threads or creating new ones with the idea of laughing at old ones but that would be an interesting one to see now. Hope our fan base doesn't do it though.

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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If anything, something would have to be worked around RNH+Petry for Shattenkirk+Berglund+1st
Yeah something like this would be what it would have to be (Blues are still adding but that's the foundation)

Even if that did happen, I'm not sure I wouldn't want to wait until season's end for that deal. RNH is going to be the better player but is he right NOW? For this season only, Berglund might be the better fit.

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12-26-2013, 04:34 PM
  #703
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What would the Blues be willing to give up to get their hands on RNH?
Shattenkirk + Stewart + pick/prospect for RNH + pick/prospect. Haggling over what the +s would be is more minor.

Very similar to the EJ trade in terms of value. Edmonton makes a major move in terms of adding defensive transition that is needed to keep up with other Western teams, and they get a winger who has size, speed, and a proven goal touch.

Blues then solve their center issues and will need to make a move for D before the deadline. Someone who is solid on zone exits and can handle a heavy forecheck. This hurts the PP from the point for the Blues but it helps the PP in the adding RNH to it sense.

The Blues will then be set at center. They keep Berglund with this deal and he stays #3 center. Jaskin replaces Stewart.

Schwartz-RNH-Tarasenko (oh my god)
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Sobotka-Berglund-Jaskin
Morrow-Roy-Reaves
Paajarvi, Lapierre, Cracknell, Porter

First of all, let me just say that this offense would score on Quick.

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Leopold
Cole-Polak

Now we've created a D hole for sure but gotten an RNH caliber player which basically get traded extremely rarely for a reason.

So we make a pre-deadline move to get a second pair puck mover. We will still have the assets to acquire such a player. That offense would be unreal. And most importantly if we lost Backes or RNH to injury (but not both) we'd still have a strong chance, whereas we see that losing Backes as things stand now, season over.

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12-26-2013, 06:28 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
Even if that did happen, I'm not sure I wouldn't want to wait until season's end for that deal. RNH is going to be the better player but is he right NOW? For this season only, Berglund might be the better fit.
I'd prefer it to be a summer move as well. RNH definitely would succeed with Hitch as he isn't a strictly offensive player. Hitch could mold him into a top defensive guy, but he'd at least be a trusted player to play big minutes.

If this was a deadline move, it could be an utter disaster with getting potentially multiple Edmonton players going from a pretty basic system with very little defensive emphasis to a complex system that requires a 200 foot game.

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12-26-2013, 08:16 PM
  #705
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I would love to see RNH in the blue note, but it would definitely be conditional on Edmonton making another move. Otherwise, they're left with 4 top 6 RW's in Eberle, Yakupov, Stewart, and Hemsky, and their top 2 centers would be Gagner/Gordon.

I do think RNH still needs to put on more muscle, he seems so slender on the ice. If he can achieve a similar build to Oshie (minus the tripping over the red line), he would be rock solid on his skates and a puck possession beast.

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12-26-2013, 09:02 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by 5255 View Post
It's a delicate situation. Since our C depth is non existant we'd ideally want a C back unless we're content with drafting Reinhart and sucking for a couple more years. I don't think Berglund is the solution so ideally we'd want a signed Roy + Shattenkirk for RNH and our 1st or something like that. Guess Blues aren't too interested in our 1st though since you want to win now but in a couple of years you'd have a very good RNH and a very good Ekblad (probably better than Shattenkirk) assuming this deal is made at the draft and we have 2nd overall pick.
I would do that. Moving Roy (likely not a long term solution for the Blues) for RNH (long-term solution) would benefit us, and while I don't want to lose Shattenkirk, we could definitely find another d-man especially if he got swapped for a 1st round pick (a very high one at that). However, that deal looks awful for Edmonton and I can't see that happening at all. You are right that a 1st round pick doesn't do much for us but it's still a very valuable trading asset, and honestly as Edmonton, they could get something better for it IMO.

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12-26-2013, 09:13 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by 5255 View Post
It's a delicate situation. Since our C depth is non existant we'd ideally want a C back unless we're content with drafting Reinhart and sucking for a couple more years. I don't think Berglund is the solution so ideally we'd want a signed Roy + Shattenkirk for RNH and our 1st or something like that. Guess Blues aren't too interested in our 1st though since you want to win now but in a couple of years you'd have a very good RNH and a very good Ekblad (probably better than Shattenkirk) assuming this deal is made at the draft and we have 2nd overall pick.
Wait what am I missing here? Roy(signed) + Shattenkirk for RNH and your first?

What else are the Blues giving up?

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12-26-2013, 09:51 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
Wait what am I missing here? Roy(signed) + Shattenkirk for RNH and your first?

What else are the Blues giving up?
I'm sure 98% (or all) of Oilers fans would not agree with that deal.

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12-26-2013, 11:54 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by 5255 View Post
It's a delicate situation. Since our C depth is non existant we'd ideally want a C back unless we're content with drafting Reinhart and sucking for a couple more years. I don't think Berglund is the solution so ideally we'd want a signed Roy + Shattenkirk for RNH and our 1st or something like that. Guess Blues aren't too interested in our 1st though since you want to win now but in a couple of years you'd have a very good RNH and a very good Ekblad (probably better than Shattenkirk) assuming this deal is made at the draft and we have 2nd overall pick.
Although I'm extremely flattered that you offered this to us, let's be honest, even Tambellini wouldn't make that trade. That package wouldn't get RNH by himself, let alone the 1st round pick which could be the 1st overall. I think you're either overvaluing Roy/Shatty, or undervaluing RNH. I'm honestly extremely shocked that an Oilers fans made that proposal.

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12-27-2013, 12:03 AM
  #710
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How about Shattenkirk + Rattie + 1st for RNH?

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12-27-2013, 01:13 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by The Red Viper View Post
Although I'm extremely flattered that you offered this to us, let's be honest, even Tambellini wouldn't make that trade. That package wouldn't get RNH by himself, let alone the 1st round pick which could be the 1st overall. I think you're either overvaluing Roy/Shatty, or undervaluing RNH. I'm honestly extremely shocked that an Oilers fans made that proposal.
Well, when you consider the state of the Oiler organization/personnel relative to the Blues, with the partially true perception that the Blues have built a winner in the same time the Oilers have built a loser with much higher draft picks, and seeing the value they got in the Perron deal, from an Oiler fan's perspective almost any player in the Blues organization looks good enough to make their team better.

To some extent that is true because Army and Hitchcock don't suffer pansies and demand gritty 200-ft. players. The Blues are a much better "team" because of the system and expectations of players, not because they're more talented. Some of the players came that way, others had to learn it. But no one on the Oil seems to have a clue how to play this way, so getting some more Blues on that team could only help. Just look at what DP57 has accomplished, and he was the least "Blue" of the Blues.

So, yeah, if I'm an exasperated Oil fan I'll give up what may appear to be lopsided value to make my team that much more Blue-like, because what they've done thus far has gotten them nowhere. Now, if they could only snag some of our coaches, too.

I'll take RNH and their 1st for Shatty, Roy/Stewart and Elliott (they need a Goalie) and not think twice


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12-27-2013, 02:20 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by thigpen View Post
Well, when you consider the state of the Oiler organization/personnel relative to the Blues, with the partially true perception that the Blues have built a winner in the same time the Oilers have built a loser with much higher draft picks, and seeing the value they got in the Perron deal, from an Oiler fan's perspective almost any player in the Blues organization looks good enough to make their team better.

To some extent that is true because Army and Hitchcock don't suffer pansies and demand gritty 200-ft. players. The Blues are a much better "team" because of the system and expectations of players, not because they're more talented. Some of the players came that way, others had to learn it. But no one on the Oil seems to have a clue how to play this way, so getting some more Blues on that team could only help. Just look at what DP57 has accomplished, and he was the least "Blue" of the Blues.

So, yeah, if I'm an exasperated Oil fan I'll give up what may appear to be lopsided value to make my team that much more Blue-like, because what they've done thus far has gotten them nowhere. Now, if they could only snag some of our coaches, too.

I'll take RNH and their 1st for Shatty, Roy/Stewart and Elliott (they need a Goalie) and not think twice
I would too, and if the Perron deal was kind of like the free first drug taste that led to future overpayments like the one you propose, I'd think Armstrong was a mad genius.

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12-27-2013, 05:52 AM
  #713
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I have two problems with the idea of acquiring RNH:

1) Are you getting a d-man to replace Shattenkirk on the second pairing? If so, this actually affords us the chance to completely change the complexion of the defense, depending on who you get (a guy that can move the puck, and still clear the crease).

Petro-Jbo
Jackman-crease clearer
Leopold-Polak

2) RNH, while offensively skilled and everything we could ask for in a center...I'm still worried that he's too small and soft when we face the California teams. Players like him easily put us over the top of the Hawks though.

Schwartz-RNH-Tarasenko (HNNNNG)
Steen-Backes-Oshie

vs.

Some combination of Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Saad and whoever else the Hawks have. Don't really care.

I'll take the former every day.


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12-27-2013, 07:13 AM
  #714
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I have two problems with the idea of acquiring RNH:

1) Are you getting a d-man to replace Shattenkirk on the second pairing? If so, this actually affords us the chance to completely change the complexion of the defense, depending on who you get (a guy that can move the puck, and still clear the crease).

Petro-Jbo
Jackman-crease clearer
Leopold-Polak

2) RNH, while offensively skilled and everything we could ask for in a center...I'm still worried that he's too small and soft when we face the California teams. Players like him easily put us over the top of the Hawks though.

Schwartz-RNH-Tarasenko (HNNNNG)
Steen-Backes-Oshie

vs.

Some combination of Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Saad and whoever else the Hawks have. Don't really care.

I'll take the former every day.
I'm going to have to agree with this. My assumption in making this deal is...Are you throwing in the towel for this year? I run my line of checkers against the top line and run them off the ice. RNH and Tank are both soft, defensively challenged players. He never has been known as a good even strength player from the moment he was drafted. I remember this article around the draft http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...d-not-go-first That hasn't change much either. My opinion is if we can make this deal and turn around and trade him elsewhere along with the pick for a better win now player in Hitch's mold, then we consider it. This doesn't help make us a winner this year. I would say it weakens us.

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12-27-2013, 07:14 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
Wait what am I missing here? Roy(signed) + Shattenkirk for RNH and your first?

What else are the Blues giving up?
Well, I'm bad with trade value I'll agree with that but I'm just fishing to see what a deal revolving one of the kids could give us back. I'm not like most Oilers fans who are content with losing just to keep the core intact. So I'm just curious if there's an actual deal out there that could be made. I don't consider anyone untouchable on a losing team, as it should be. Yes, RNH would be hard to replace and he's going to become a great player but let's say we don't give up that 1st we'd still be able to draft Reinhart/Dal Colle while we'd get a much more balanced team overall. Most Oilers fans want to save these players for when we're contenders but they don't realize that we'll never be contenders if we don't deal one of the kids. I'd rather have a balanced team making the playoffs every year but not quite all the way than being bottom dwellers year in and year out waiting for the draft to give us enough good players that we simply cannot fail (if that's even possible).

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12-27-2013, 09:14 AM
  #716
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Well, I'm bad with trade value I'll agree with that but I'm just fishing to see what a deal revolving one of the kids could give us back. I'm not like most Oilers fans who are content with losing just to keep the core intact. So I'm just curious if there's an actual deal out there that could be made. I don't consider anyone untouchable on a losing team, as it should be. Yes, RNH would be hard to replace and he's going to become a great player but let's say we don't give up that 1st we'd still be able to draft Reinhart/Dal Colle while we'd get a much more balanced team overall. Most Oilers fans want to save these players for when we're contenders but they don't realize that we'll never be contenders if we don't deal one of the kids. I'd rather have a balanced team making the playoffs every year but not quite all the way than being bottom dwellers year in and year out waiting for the draft to give us enough good players that we simply cannot fail (if that's even possible).
I gotcha. The deal you proposed is heavily slanted in our favor though. Edmonton should keep their first round pick (or else get better value for it)

RNH + Petry for Shattenkirk + 1st + Berglund(or Roy I suppose if you'd rather have him. I'm not sure that you don't need a Berglund type more but I don't know for sure) + B prospect is closer to fair value.

Not sure how other Blues fans would feel but I think that's a more fair deal.

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12-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #717
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I'm going to have to agree with this. My assumption in making this deal is...Are you throwing in the towel for this year? I run my line of checkers against the top line and run them off the ice. RNH and Tank are both soft, defensively challenged players. He never has been known as a good even strength player from the moment he was drafted. I remember this article around the draft http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...d-not-go-first That hasn't change much either. My opinion is if we can make this deal and turn around and trade him elsewhere along with the pick for a better win now player in Hitch's mold, then we consider it. This doesn't help make us a winner this year. I would say it weakens us.
Just FYI, I have actually been to the Bleacher Report offices in SF, and I can tell you that there is no such thing as an informative Bleacher Report "article." It's free high school and college blogger labor. It's a bunch of ill-informed, enthusiastic kid fans writing for free.

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12-27-2013, 12:59 PM
  #718
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Just FYI, I have actually been to the Bleacher Report offices in SF, and I can tell you that there is no such thing as an informative Bleacher Report "article." It's free high school and college blogger labor. It's a bunch of ill-informed, enthusiastic kid fans writing for free.
Yep, I know some of their writers, it is a joke site.

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12-27-2013, 01:39 PM
  #719
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I can see us trading with the Bruins to get McQuaid. As in, soon. Polak just broke his ankle, Leopold isn't back for at least a few weeks, which means every night Carlo Colaiacovo. It's a pretty good time to get a defenseman. THEN if that guy is strong, MAYBE the Blues use Shattenkirk when the defense is healthy for that impact center. But it gives Armstrong time to mull options for at least a few weeks, probably longer. That's assuming nobody else gets injured. Blues are very thin defensively at the moment. Definitely could see a trade. Wonder if they'd consider going for Boychuk, which would definitely fuel Shattenkirk for a major center trade discussion. Have to give up someone for Boychuk. Would Stewart for Boychuk be approximate equal value? 20 min a night defenseman. Edmonton might genuinely do a Shattenkirk and Berglund for RNH deal, given their positive experience with Perron. RNH to Berglund is a definite downgrade, but if Berglund has a Perron-like impact on the Oilers then that downgrade may be palatable to get an impact defenseman they'll have to wait a while to otherwise add even if they use a #1 pick on one.

I don't understand the thought that RNH doesn't help us win now. Pretty sure he's had more experience than Schwartz and Tarasenko, and we'll be relying on them in the playoffs.

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12-27-2013, 01:46 PM
  #720
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I'd take Boychuk in a heartbeat.

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12-27-2013, 02:05 PM
  #721
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Yep, I know some of their writers, it is a joke site.
Aside from the Bleacher Report, has he showed in any games you have seen or when they have played the Blues that would make you think otherwise? He is largely a minus as an offensive force on a unorganized team (is that fair? haha) He does look really good with the puck definitely, but away from it....I can't say I've noticed him outside of minuses on the stat sheet. Got to see him a few times and kind of watched to see the hype. Not saying he won't get there or be a good two way center, I just don't see trading a defender that is already a 40 to 50 point player for a maybe. The #2 overall pick makes me really think about it, but Edmonton touched it. Bad Omen....

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12-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #722
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I'd take Boychuk in a heartbeat.
You and me both, but he is going to cost a lot more than McQuaid. Quite a talent. I'm just thinking of who they may be more apt to part with. With Thornton being suspended though, they may not want to trade McQuaid either.

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12-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #723
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I don't understand the thought that RNH doesn't help us win now. Pretty sure he's had more experience than Schwartz and Tarasenko, and we'll be relying on them in the playoffs.
For me personally, I'm not reading much into anything that happens in the regular season as far as matchups go, good or bad. We know how good the team can be in the regular season. It's the playoffs that count.

RNH has zero NHL playoff experience and is going to have to learn the Blues way of playing.

Can he help? Sure but I don't know if it's that much more help immediately than Berglund/Shatty would be. That's why I thought it would be better as a summer move.

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12-27-2013, 02:30 PM
  #724
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RNH's even strength numbers aren't the greatest, but remember the position he's in right now. He was Edmonton's #1 center by default as soon as he entered the league. He's been matched up against guys like Thornton, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Sedin, and such since the age of 18. His linemates are also pretty young in Hall and Eberle, and they're not exactly defensive dynamos. RNH is fine defensively from what I've seen, he's pretty good at stealing pucks and he uses his body when necessary. I think you would have to put either Steen or Oshie on the wing with him for extra support in the defensive zone.

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12-27-2013, 02:31 PM
  #725
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So, what about Stewart for Boychuk?

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