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NHL rejects AHL conditioning assignment of Buffalo's Grigorenko

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11-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #1
LadyStanley
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NHL rejects AHL conditioning assignment of Buffalo's Grigorenko

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ng-assignment/

Buffalo sent 4 kids packing from NHL this week. One went back to his OHL team. The other three were assigned to AHL.

However, Grigorenko is a QMJHL draftee and 19. And under the NHL-CHL agreement, if the 18-19 year olds don't make the NHL squad, they'll get returned to their CHL team, not assigned to the AHL.

The reason he wasn't (immediately) sent back to the Q is that his team already has two imports on the roster. So Grigorenko or one of the other imports would need to be traded to accommodate the move. (This assignment to the AHL was called a "conditioning stint".)

But the NHL won't OK this. So, expect more updates on this situation.

(As this was not a move for cap savings, I don't think there will be any circumvention discipline.)

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11-20-2013, 10:34 AM
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Very interesting. Would it be safe to say that Buffalo screwed up Girgorenko's development? They should have left him in the Q after his draft year.

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11-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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Worth noting that CHL-eligible players are allowed to play in the AHL on conditioning assignments, and the NHL has let them before. One example would be Zach Bogosian. During his rookie year in 2008-09 he broke his leg in late October, and played 5 games (which I think was the maximum 2 weeks allowed at the time) for the Chicago Wolves before rejoining the Thrashers, even though he was still 18 and had OHL eligibility left.

Obviously Grigorenko's case isn't the same, but had he legitimately been hurt or sore, the NHL would likely have allowed it.

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11-20-2013, 01:06 PM
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Did they send back all three of Ristolainen, Zadorov and Grigorenko past the nine game limit?

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11-20-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Did they send back all three of Ristolainen, Zadorov and Grigorenko past the nine game limit?
Ristolainen and Grigorenko yes, Zadorov only played 7 games.

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11-20-2013, 01:13 PM
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tarheelhockey
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I guess this is what happens when you decide to clean house in November. Details slip through the cracks.

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11-20-2013, 01:34 PM
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I really dont agree with their decision because it is not like we want to send him down to the AHL via conditioning stint to get around the rules but because we CAN'T send him to the QMJHL since the Ramparts already have 2 imports. It's purpose is to get him some conducive playing while we wait for this situation to be worked out.

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11-20-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JJTT View Post
Ristolainen and Grigorenko yes, Zadorov only played 7 games.
I presume that they were all on ELC's. So does that mean Ristolainen and Grigorenko lose a year?

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11-20-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I presume that they were all on ELC's. So does that mean Ristolainen and Grigorenko lose a year?
Of their ELCs, yes. Zadorov doesn't.

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11-20-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I presume that they were all on ELC's. So does that mean Ristolainen and Grigorenko lose a year?
Grigorenko would have burned an ELC year even if the Sabres had sent him back to the QMJHL during training camp. Once a player burns a year on their ELC as Grigorenko did last season then they can't slide.

I do agree with the league's position on this. What Buffalo is trying to do is not a "conditioning stint" in my opinion.

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11-20-2013, 02:11 PM
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The sooner the NHL and CHL get their heads out of their ***** and sort out a set financial package that allows NHL teams to "buy" a 19 year olds (no exceptions for 18 year olds) way out of their CHL commitment.

Most of the time it is clear the player should remain in juniors or be in the NHL. Cases like Grigorenko are the middle ground where he isn't NHL ready and another year in the Q is a waste.

As the rules stand, the NHL done the right thing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I presume that they were all on ELC's. So does that mean Ristolainen and Grigorenko lose a year?
Yes, they lose a year of their ELC. However, it doesn't count as an accrued seasons towards UFA.

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11-20-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Grigorenko would have burned an ELC year even if the Sabres had sent him back to the QMJHL during training camp. Once a player burns a year on their ELC as Grigorenko did last season then they can't slide.

I do agree with the league's position on this. What Buffalo is trying to do is not a "conditioning stint" in my opinion.
It's not a conditioning stint in any regards, but the league also noted that it wasn't done for cap circumvention purposes either. Just one of the issues regarding their agreement with the CHL.

Ideally it would give them a cause to look into modifying the agreement somewhat, but that is not likely to happen.

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11-20-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
The sooner the NHL and CHL get their heads out of their ***** and sort out a set financial package that allows NHL teams to "buy" a 19 year olds (no exceptions for 18 year olds) way out of their CHL commitment.

Most of the time it is clear the player should remain in juniors or be in the NHL. Cases like Grigorenko are the middle ground where he isn't NHL ready and another year in the Q is a waste.

As the rules stand, the NHL done the right thing here.



Yes, they lose a year of their ELC. However, it doesn't count as an accrued seasons towards UFA.
Happened to the Islanders and Nino. He went back his first season after the draft but the second season, he was 'too good' for the NHL. Desperately needed to be in the AHL but didnt for....reasons. Dumb rule that i completely understand the idea behind.

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11-20-2013, 02:22 PM
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The NHL needs to re-examine its CHL agreement when it comes to imports, permitting a player to play in the AHL if a team already has two imports on its roster and cannot roster another player (even if the player is otherwise eligible to play major junior). As it is, if Grigorenko can't play in Buffalo, he is going to sit idle.

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11-20-2013, 02:25 PM
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So does this mean that one of Grigorenko, Zadarov or Risto need to be traded?

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11-20-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
So does this mean that one of Grigorenko, Zadarov or Risto need to be traded?
No. One of the three imports meant on the Quebec Remparts roster.

Based on a quick google it appears that the current 2 Rempart's imports are Fabrice Herzog (Leafs pick 142nd overall in 2013) and Nick Sorensen (Ducks pick 45th overall in 2013).

The Remparts cannot have more than 2 non-North American players on their roster. Thus one of Herzog, Sorensen or Grigorenko must be traded by the Remparts before Gegorenko is allowed to be sent back to the Q

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11-20-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
No. One of the three imports meant on the Quebec Remparts roster.

Based on a quick google it appears that the current 2 Rempart's imports are Fabrice Herzog (Leafs pick 142nd overall in 2013) and Nick Sorensen (Ducks pick 45th overall in 2013).

The Remparts cannot have more than 2 non-North American players on their roster. Thus one of Herzog, Sorensen or Grigorenko must be traded by the Remparts before Gegorenko is allowed to be sent back to the Q
Or, Buffalo can trade one of their own. I mean, the writing has to be on the wall for some of these guys, and LaFontaine can't force the Remparts to trade their players in a timely fashion.

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11-20-2013, 02:50 PM
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Interesting seeing how they have let this exact thing happen in the past (Brayden Schenn in 2010-11). It was not injury related, just a way to get him some time in the AHL and circumvent the agreement. NHL must have notified all teams that this would no longer be allowed after that, at least I hope they did, otherwise I'd be pissed if I was the Buffalo Sabres.

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11-20-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Or, Buffalo can trade one of their own. I mean, the writing has to be on the wall for some of these guys, and LaFontaine can't force the Remparts to trade their players in a timely fashion.
Risto and Zadorov are fully separate from Grigorenko in this case (at least as far as I understand it).

The Sabres trading away either Risto or Zadorov would not allow them to send Grigorenko back to the Q since he'd still belong to the Remparts.

But you're right, the Sabres can't force the Remparts to do anything, although you'd assume that the Remparts might be willing to trade Grigorenko (or one of their other guys) to gain the benefit since if they don't do anything they don't gain anything.

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11-20-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Interesting seeing how they have let this exact thing happen in the past (Brayden Schenn in 2010-11). It was not injury related, just a way to get him some time in the AHL and circumvent the agreement. NHL must have notified all teams that this would no longer be allowed after that, at least I hope they did, otherwise I'd be pissed if I was the Buffalo Sabres.
In both cases Schenn did have an injury. Once was a concussion, once was a lingering leg injury that he had been playing through.

You can certainly debate the validity of his leg injury, and I certainly wasn't following the Kings close enough back then to really comment. Just that it was given as a reason.

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11-20-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kaiser matias View Post
Worth noting that CHL-eligible players are allowed to play in the AHL on conditioning assignments, and the NHL has let them before. One example would be Zach Bogosian. During his rookie year in 2008-09 he broke his leg in late October, and played 5 games (which I think was the maximum 2 weeks allowed at the time) for the Chicago Wolves before rejoining the Thrashers, even though he was still 18 and had OHL eligibility left.

Obviously Grigorenko's case isn't the same, but had he legitimately been hurt or sore, the NHL would likely have allowed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 13.8
13.8 Conditioning Loan. Unless a Player consents, he shall not be Loaned on a Conditioning
Loan to a minor league club. Such Conditioning Loan shall not extend for more than fourteen
(14) consecutive days. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to
investigate the circumstances under which a Player is Loaned on a Conditioning Loan. If the
Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan
to evade Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such
disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate.
The Player shall continue, during
the period of such Conditioning Loan, to receive the same Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, and be
entitled to the same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to play with the Club.
The NHL-CHL Agreement is likely included in the League Rules and thus deemed to be provisions of the CBA.

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11-20-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Risto and Zadorov are fully separate from Grigorenko in this case (at least as far as I understand it).

The Sabres trading away either Risto or Zadorov would not allow them to send Grigorenko back to the Q since he'd still belong to the Remparts.
By "one of their own", I meant dealing one of the roster players whose time is getting ready to come to a close anyway. Then just let Grigorenko play in Buffalo again.

I say this without knowing the details of Buffalo's roster structure, so this may or may not be a realistic option.

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11-20-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Risto and Zadorov are fully separate from Grigorenko in this case (at least as far as I understand it).

The Sabres trading away either Risto or Zadorov would not allow them to send Grigorenko back to the Q since he'd still belong to the Remparts.

But you're right, the Sabres can't force the Remparts to do anything, although you'd assume that the Remparts might be willing to trade Grigorenko (or one of their other guys) to gain the benefit since if they don't do anything they don't gain anything.
The remparts said they're not willing to trade Herzog or Sorensen and that no one made an offer for Grigorenko.

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11-20-2013, 06:48 PM
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I'm willing to bet the Remparts will trade Grigo cause they are thin on the prospect side of things for the futur. They'll probably get some picks for him.

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11-20-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I presume that they were all on ELC's. So does that mean Ristolainen and Grigorenko lose a year?
Risto has past 9 games....He likely gets called back up later in the year.

Fans thought risto played perfectly fine. I expected him to get sent down in part because Buffalo's affiliate in Rochester in playing in the Spengler Cup in December so they want to send the best team there.


Grigorenko burn his first year of his ELC so you cant slide the second year...


....but...

In order to reach UFA status you need to get an accrued season. Grigorenko last year did not play enough to burn the first year of UFA status so his UFA start time slide one season. If they send him to JRs again his UFA time slides another year.

Zadorov only played 7 games.

With the 9 game limit there is also a day count on the roster that affects burning the entry year. This is what happened last year with Grigs. It also happened to NJ draft pick Matteau.

I think part of the reason Zadorov was sent down now was also because he reached that day count To start the year he was on IR because of a hand so that time did not count. Its only time on the 23 man that counts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Grigorenko would have burned an ELC year even if the Sabres had sent him back to the QMJHL during training camp. Once a player burns a year on their ELC as Grigorenko did last season then they can't slide.

I do agree with the league's position on this. What Buffalo is trying to do is not a "conditioning stint" in my opinion.
That is debateable...if he hasnt played much and had a minor injury i dont see much of a problem with it. Grigs is still counted against the 23 man roster and is still payed his NHL salary so there wasnt any cap diversion made.

If they had Grigs on the IR there wouldnt be an issue then--right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
The sooner the NHL and CHL get their heads out of their ***** and sort out a set financial package that allows NHL teams to "buy" a 19 year olds (no exceptions for 18 year olds) way out of their CHL commitment.

Most of the time it is clear the player should remain in juniors or be in the NHL. Cases like Grigorenko are the middle ground where he isn't NHL ready and another year in the Q is a waste.
I believe exceptions should be made for 1st round picks. the NHL team decides if they should go to the AHL or back to the CHL.

the problem is Grigs is ready to move on to the next step but CHL to NHL is a big step so he really should be able to play in the AHL.

I would like it if there was a way for the NHL team to buy him out of a CHL contract.

I would be fine with players 1 yr after them drafting of being able to move on to the pro club or AHL affiliate.

A middle ground would be 1st round selections can immediately go to the AHL while 2nd and 3rd round picks wait until their 19.

I also think CHL should lose their rights for import players when drafted by the NHL.

This is part of the problem that is happeneingg now with Grigs. He cant go back to the Q because the Ramparts already have their 2 import slots filled. Its possible all CHL import slots are filled....thus Grigs should be able to just go to the aHL.

Buffalo could easily loan him to a european league team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
So does this mean that one of Grigorenko, Zadarov or Risto need to be traded?
The issue isnt the Sabres---its on the Remparts in the Q---they already have their 2 import slots filled with players so they cant take back Grigs so they must trade him to another team who has an import slot to fill.

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