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Game #23 | Thursday, November 21, 2013 | Hurricanes @ Red Wings | 7:30 PM, FSD

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11-21-2013, 03:51 PM
  #126
HomersWorld
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Cleary with Datsyuk

I don't want to be a pessimist, but I'm already wondering how many shifts it will take for Babcock to switch Nyquist and Abdelkader.

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11-21-2013, 03:54 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomersWorld View Post
Cleary with Datsyuk

I don't want to be a pessimist, but I'm already wondering how many shifts it will take for Babcock to switch Nyquist and Abdelkader.
Nah, Babs is way more likely to switch Abby with Bert to get the world's ********* band back together.

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:58 PM
  #128
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Dan Cleary has 3 points this season. Three.

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:05 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by ThankYouBasedGod View Post
Looking over the Hurricanes stats and their leading scorer in terms of points is Eric Staal with 12. Ouch.
yeah they're going with the "good defense wins championships" idiom. zero offense and mediocre defense gets you last in the Metro in reality. but Muller had his camp, etc...........team full of grinders. close to a cap full of grinders............

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11-21-2013, 04:07 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Dan Cleary has 3 points this season. Three.
With 14:34 Avg Toi/g and 0:59 Avg PP Toi/g

Could you imagine if they gave Nyquist those valuable minutes from the get-go, but that's crazy talk as far as KH is concerned.

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:07 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Dan Cleary has 3 points this season. Three.
That's not even the worst part.

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11-21-2013, 04:08 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Dan Cleary has 3 points this season. Three.
and one was second assist on empty netter.

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11-21-2013, 04:09 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Dan Cleary has 3 points this season. Three.
Three realgud points. If you convert that into regular points, it's like 45 points.

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11-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #134
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We are playing against a backup goalie. And nyquist gets sent down if he doesn't "grab his cheese".

Classic example of glorious red wing unoffense against a backup Carolina 4-0.

I saw that lindsey's locker was right next to tats and nyquist and really wished we had him at 70 whatever instead of danny boy.

Sorry dats I'll pray for you maybe a lightning bolt will strike home on babs so he learns how to not neutralize you with two anchors.

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Old
11-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
With 14:34 Avg Toi/g and 0:59 Avg PP Toi/g

Could you imagine if they gave Nyquist those valuable minutes from the get-go, but that's crazy talk as far as KH is concerned.
That's the crazy part. I have a hard time seeing Nyquist, given those minutes, not scoring more points than Cleary. Nyquist would be such a massive upgrade over Cleary on virtually every level.

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11-21-2013, 04:31 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
and one was second assist on empty netter.
This was Cleary's other assist:



Pretty sure Alfie sauced it over Cleary's stick, but he still got credit for it.

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11-21-2013, 04:39 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
More like Cleary has the piano fall on him and he gets up with Piano keys as teeth.

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11-21-2013, 04:42 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomersWorld View Post
This was Cleary's other assist:



Pretty sure Alfie sauced it over Cleary's stick, but he still got credit for it.
It's like people who defended the Cleary citing based on his playoff stats. If you actually watched you know he was incredibly lucky to be included in most of those goals.

He has 1 pt in 21 games so far. That's how I look at it.

And no matter how bad he does, he's coming back next year. MOD


Last edited by SoupNazi: 11-21-2013 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Find a better way to say that. Seriously.
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Old
11-21-2013, 04:51 PM
  #139
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Kronwall can't make a hit without being in suspension talks. Clean or not. He probably knows that the team can't afford to lose him, even if it's for a game or two. Which is disappointing, but likely part of the scenario. Plus he doesn't want to get hurt if he lands funny, misses, etc.

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11-21-2013, 04:53 PM
  #140
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Is howard gettin the start for you guys tonight? Picked him up on fanduel, know hes been playin bad lately but i feel like the canes should be a good rebound game for him and the rest of your team if he plays.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:15 PM
  #141
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Poor Pavel. Started the season so well and gets rewarded by playing with Daniel ****ing Cleary. Bertuzzi has been pulling his weight, but I guess you get top 6 time by doing **** all this season.

Excited to see Nyquist with Z and Mule. That should be a good line. They've had good chemistry in the past. Hopefully he does so well that Babcock and Holland are forced to make a move.

I would've given Tatar top 6 minutes with Datsyuk. Imagine Tomas with Pavel. Holy ****. Tatar loves scoring, Datsyuk can make that happen.

When everyone is healthy, I would one day like to see this lineup:

Tatar - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Abdelkader - Weiss - Alfredsson
Miller - Helm - Andersson
Cleary, Samuelsson

Kronwall - DeKeyser
Ericsson - Smith
Kindl - Ouellet
Lashoff

Howard
Mrazek

Quincey and Gustavsson are moved to make room for Nyquist, Ouellet and Mrazek.

Two 1st lines, what could be a good 2nd line and a solid 4th line that could be a third line on most teams. With defensive pairings that are balanced. Depth, meet Red Wings. Red Wings, this is depth. Enjoy!

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11-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #142
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The Wings win tonight. But I got a bad feeling about it. #71 is gonna somehow manage to put 1, maybe 2 goals. I'd rather just lose again than Dan Cleary score 2 goals.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:26 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
With 14:34 Avg Toi/g and 0:59 Avg PP Toi/g

Could you imagine if they gave Nyquist those valuable minutes from the get-go, but that's crazy talk as far as KH is concerned.
Well Babs has Nyquist now, so that kind of stuff is up to him, but keep attaching Holland to it. You think Holland tells Babcock how much ice-time guys get or who he is going to use off the roster? Maybe he should, but there is no way he does that to a guy with Babcock's resume and that is a big part of our problem. It's in Holland's job description though to tell Babs to pound sand more often than he does and when he truly doesn't like something like when Babs was trying to scratch Tatar last week, to send people out and give him no option.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:35 PM
  #144
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It's funny because Babcock seems genuinely befuddled by Cleary's lack of production. He honestly thinks he is a good hockey player....pretty alarming really.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:37 PM
  #145
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Now... anyone who actually watches hockey.... it is usually pretty easy to see who the worst player on your team is, especially when you watch the same team play over and over. For the last three seasons, Clearly has been awful. In 2012 he put up what might have been the worst 33 point performance I've ever seen.

Someone explain to me, give me a serious valid argument, as to what in the hell the Red Wings brass sees in this guy that justifies top-6 play, especially with Pavel Datsyuk. I understand the locker room culture, I get he brings some leadership, fine.... put him on the 4th line if he has to play.

Justify this Babcock/Holland:

'13-'14
GP: 21 | G: 1 | A: 2 | P:3 | + 1 | PIM: 12 | PPP: 0 | TOI: 14:34 | PP TOI: 0:59

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11-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
Now... anyone who actually watches hockey.... it is usually pretty easy to see who the worst player on your team is, especially when you watch the same team play over and over. For the last three seasons, Clearly has been awful. In 2012 he put up what might have been the worst 33 point performance I've ever seen.

Someone explain to me, give me a serious valid argument, as to what in the hell the Red Wings brass sees in this guy that justifies top-6 play, especially with Pavel Datsyuk. I understand the locker room culture, I get he brings some leadership, fine.... put him on the 4th line if he has to play.

Justify this Babcock/Holland:

'13-'14
GP: 21 | G: 1 | A: 2 | P:3 | + 1 | PIM: 12 | PPP: 0 | TOI: 14:34 | PP TOI: 0:59
It's completely unjustifiable and gives serious credence to those advocating Holland and Babcock's dismissals.

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11-21-2013, 05:47 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Well Babs has Nyquist now, so that kind of stuff is up to him, but keep attaching Holland to it. You think Holland tells Babcock how much ice-time guys get or who he is going to use off the roster? Maybe he should, but there is no way he does that to a guy with Babcock's resume and that is a big part of our problem. It's in Holland's job description though to tell Babs to pound sand more often than he does and when he truly doesn't like something like when Babs was trying to scratch Tatar last week, to send people out and give him no option.
Pretty easy to blame KH for Nyquist not having those minutes considering he was in the AHL, the fact that coach is responsible for how roster players are treated is not lost on me. If Nyquist and Tatar were on the roster from day 1 and DFC was still getting good minutes rest assured I'd put the blame squarely on Babcock.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:48 PM
  #148
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I'll give them a period to see if they're worth watching.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:57 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
Pretty easy to blame KH for Nyquist not having those minutes considering he was in the AHL, the fact that coach is responsible for how roster players are treated is not lost on me. If Nyquist and Tatar were on the roster from day 1 and DFC was still getting good minutes rest assured I'd put the blame squarely on Babcock.
Was more pointing out your just inclusion of Holland as he won't get minutes now either while using a player Babcock campaigned for and overplays to the maximum.

I am bitterly disappointed with Holland for not standing firm on Cleary, he had his butt out the door it seemed. Honestly my least favorite decision in his entire time with the Wings. That and them not making a huge stink that they turned in a draft card with Pavel Bure on it were told no and then just let the league completely **** them and Vancouver select him a couple rounds later when he was the head scout and in charge of our drafts.

I think because of who Babcock is he has allowed him far too much leeway, he is still his boss. His input is valued, but it shouldn't get in the way of hard decisions and if he is doing things Holland outright disagrees with for long stretches he needs to tell him to stop it. I think there is a lot of tip-toeing going on between two people that don't really see the game of hockey the same way, that is pure speculation, but I think there is a real egg-shell thing between the two because of how powerful both are in hockey circles and it is now a determent to our team.

I don't think Bowman had a whole lot of influence on the front office part of the organization after retiring (rightly he was miserable the only time he had full autonomy in Buffalo) and moving into the adviser role while living in Buffalo. But I do think his weekly chats with Babcock probably really helped keep the puck possession concept and Red Wings philosophy going, Babs seems to have gone off the deep end in that regard in terms of his roster selection and team structure he is preaching since those weekly chats went away. If he won't listen then we have a problem, I honestly don't believe after 20+ years of drafting, signing and assembling puck possession offensive teams that Holland is the guy endorsing this kind of deployment on Cleary and the stranglehold chip chase crap we are witnessing, sorry I just don't see it.

He did badly misjudge what bringing him back would mean and the move-ability of our depth guys. Think he admitted as much the other day, not the Cleary part but that he was frustrated with what was going on and it was his fault.

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11-21-2013, 05:59 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Three realgud points. If you convert that into regular points, it's like 45 points.

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